Academy 2016/2017

[neiliog93]

Tell New Zealand or Fiji that guys getting some sevens experience when young is detrimental to their careers. At the very worst it will have a neutral effect.

[the spoofer]

Tell New Zealand or Fiji that guys getting some sevens experience when young is detrimental to their careers. At the very worst it will have a neutral effect.

Would be great to see the money spent on this go elsewhere.

[Dave Cahill]

Tell New Zealand or Fiji that guys getting some sevens experience when young is detrimental to their careers. At the very worst it will have a neutral effect.

Very few NZ elite age grade players play sevens anymore as their skills based game would be damaged by sevens, and it has all but destroyed rugby union in Fiji

[the spoofer]

Tell New Zealand or Fiji that guys getting some sevens experience when young is detrimental to their careers. At the very worst it will have a neutral effect.

Very few NZ elite age grade players play sevens anymore as their skills based game would be damaged by sevens, and it has all but destroyed rugby union in Fiji

And Canada.

[Dave Cahill]

This sounds like tin foil hat stuff, but the biggest danger and threat rugby union faces isn't from soccer, or league or computer games, its from Sevens.

[Morf]

Tell New Zealand or Fiji that guys getting some sevens experience when young is detrimental to their careers. At the very worst it will have a neutral effect.

I'd suggest the opposite to that.

The best is a neutral effect.

Look at World Rugby showing off the sport in clips online . . . It's "look how fast this player can run".

Skills are quite deliberately downplayed.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

This sounds like tin foil hat stuff, but the biggest danger and threat rugby union faces isn't from soccer, or league or computer games, its from Sevens.

The more I read about concussion the more that worries me regarding the future of the game. I was reading about how Dane Coles is suffering and it's scary how bad his symptoms sound and yet coaches don't sound concerned about it because it's just so common.

There could be a link with concussion and 7s because obviously it doesn't happen very often there, which could add to the threat.

[BrockBoy]

Charlie Connolly the tighthead isn't getting an academy spot? Would have thought that he was going to be a sure thing, looks like a very good No3.

Maybe he will earn one at the world cup? Altho you'd think Smyth would know everything he needs to know as he is connollys ex schools coach.

With Aungier maybe they dont want to offer two tightheads academy deals?

Seems rather silly.. only 4 players from 1997 age group seem to have been offered academy deals. Which is way less than usual.

With only 1 year contracts being offered its not exactly a huge commitment to make to a player and connolly has been the most impressive TH at this level since furlong. For instance i'd rate Connolly ahead of Heffernan right now and certainly two years down the line.

Completely agree.

[leinsterforever]

Good to see Will Connors and a few of the academy backs are heading off to play 7s. It should help develop their timing, skills and reading of the game

Not really. Its a waste of time that will only be detrimental to their careers.

Are you sure you're not just assuming that anything Nucifora does is automatically bad for Leinster? Cos that's how it seems sometimes

[johng]

No. (Well possibly) But mainly.... He just has a genuine hatred for 7s rugby. I can take it or leave it. Mostly leave it.

[leinsterforever]

No. (Well possibly) But mainly.... He just has a genuine hatred for 7s rugby. I can take it or leave it. Mostly leave it.

I don't follow it hugely closely or anything, but I think it does have its place as a development tool. I get the impression that quite a lot of Irish XVs players panic when they get in the open, and just pin their ears back and hope not to get caught. It stands to reason that playing 7s would make players more familiar and comfortable operating in the open. They'll realise that they can manipulate defenders with their actions, and become slicker and more evasive runners. I mean, how often does a winger get a chance to practice what to do in a one-on-one situation in an actual match in the full game? It might only result in incremental improvements, but these could all add up over the course of a season, or even just one match.

Players are forced to work on their long passing, and I'd say it would also help their understanding of how to work together if there was a small group of say three or four players attacking in a broken-field situation

[Dave Cahill]

No. (Well possibly) But mainly.... He just has a genuine hatred for 7s rugby. I can take it or leave it. Mostly leave it.

I don't follow it hugely closely or anything, but I think it does have its place as a development tool. I get the impression that quite a lot of Irish XVs players panic when they get in the open, and just pin their ears back and hope not to get caught. It stands to reason that playing 7s would make players more familiar and comfortable operating in the open. They'll realise that they can manipulate defenders with their actions, and become slicker and more evasive runners. I mean, how often does a winger get a chance to practice what to do in a one-on-one situation in an actual match in the full game? It might only result in incremental improvements, but these could all add up over the course of a season, or even just one match.

Players are forced to work on their long passing, and I'd say it would also help their understanding of how to work together if there was a small group of say three or four players attacking in a broken-field situation

You see, thats the problem with sevens, a lot of what you've said is basically cant with no real connection to the reality of sevens rugby. Sevens rugby provides a small subset of rugby players a chance to utilise a small subset of the skills required for rugby in game situations that have no connection or similarity to the game of rugby union.

[El Diablo]

No. (Well possibly) But mainly.... He just has a genuine hatred for 7s rugby. I can take it or leave it. Mostly leave it.

I don't follow it hugely closely or anything, but I think it does have its place as a development tool. I get the impression that quite a lot of Irish XVs players panic when they get in the open, and just pin their ears back and hope not to get caught. It stands to reason that playing 7s would make players more familiar and comfortable operating in the open. They'll realise that they can manipulate defenders with their actions, and become slicker and more evasive runners. I mean, how often does a winger get a chance to practice what to do in a one-on-one situation in an actual match in the full game? It might only result in incremental improvements, but these could all add up over the course of a season, or even just one match.

Players are forced to work on their long passing, and I'd say it would also help their understanding of how to work together if there was a small group of say three or four players attacking in a broken-field situation

You see, thats the problem with sevens, a lot of what you've said is basically cant with no real connection to the reality of sevens rugby. Sevens rugby provides a small subset of rugby players a chance to utilise a small subset of the skills required for rugby in game situations that have no connection or similarity to the game of rugby union.

get off the fence Dave!!
I was never a big fan of 7s but I thoroughly enjoyed the Olympics. The offloading game played by Fiji was on a different level to all the others. If we could get a little bit of that skill set into our game it would be positive. It is a great sport in it's own right but it is doubtful if it helps player development for the 15 man game. England has been a big player on the 7s circuit for years. How many of their 7s players have gone on and made successful careers in the 15 man game?
Great documentary about what the gold medal meant to Fiji:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50PaG_o21CQ

[fourthirtythree]

This sounds like tin foil hat stuff, but the biggest danger and threat rugby union faces isn't from soccer, or league or computer games, its from Sevens.

The more I read about concussion the more that worries me regarding the future of the game. I was reading about how Dane Coles is suffering and it's scary how bad his symptoms sound and yet coaches don't sound concerned about it because it's just so common.

There could be a link with concussion and 7s because obviously it doesn't happen very often there, which could add to the threat.

I know there is a neuroscientist on the board and he has avoided saying anything about concussion. I have discussed the topic with neuroscientists (as in I ask, they tell, I listen) however and I think that you have a very good point.

For the record soccer and GAA need to take the issue seriously also. The shoulder charges in GAA...

[Dave Cahill]

The offloading game played by Fiji was on a different level to all the others. If we could get a little bit of that skill set into our game it would be positive.

The in-game situations in sevens no long bear any relation to in-game situations in rugby union. The vast lonely acreage within which the sevens player executes an offload doesn't exist in rugby anymore. Its considerably more difficult to do anything in the claustrophobic rugby union environment which is why the sloppy technique and poor skill level that is acceptable in sevens is detrimental to rugby

[Dave Cahill]

This sounds like tin foil hat stuff, but the biggest danger and threat rugby union faces isn't from soccer, or league or computer games, its from Sevens.

The more I read about concussion the more that worries me regarding the future of the game. I was reading about how Dane Coles is suffering and it's scary how bad his symptoms sound and yet coaches don't sound concerned about it because it's just so common.

There could be a link with concussion and 7s because obviously it doesn't happen very often there, which could add to the threat.

Thats a good point - I rephrase my original point - the biggest danger and threat from other sports rugby union faces...

[Laighin Break]

I know there is a neuroscientist on the board and he has avoided saying anything about concussion. I have discussed the topic with neuroscientists (as in I ask, they tell, I listen) however and I think that you have a very good point.

For the record soccer and GAA need to take the issue seriously also. The shoulder charges in GAA...

Concussion has been in topic with the GAA for a bit. Rory O'Carroll was an ambassador for ABI (Acquired Brain Injury), and he wrote a letter to the Irish Times questioning the IRFU playing Rory Best a week (I think) after he suffered a concussion. O'Carroll also suffered a concussion in an All Ireland final but played on, which drew criticism (at the management/medical staff, not him).
I don't think it's much of an issue in the GAA though, and a shoulder "charge" is a foul and very rarely happens. I don't watch AFL, but I'd imagine it must be a big issue there.

[the spoofer]

It's like watching kids throw 15 yard passes in a warm up drill and then they can't execute a 5 yard pass when the 7 is looking to kill them. It's about time and space. You have loads in 7's and little in 15's.

If you think a kid needs more development then please put him into real world situations in the AIL rather than the rubbish that is 7's. Hell, if league and 7's was on telly I'd probably watch the league.

[the spoofer]

I know there is a neuroscientist on the board and he has avoided saying anything about concussion. I have discussed the topic with neuroscientists (as in I ask, they tell, I listen) however and I think that you have a very good point.

For the record soccer and GAA need to take the issue seriously also. The shoulder charges in GAA...

Concussion has been in topic with the GAA for a bit. Rory O'Carroll was an ambassador for ABI (Acquired Brain Injury), and he wrote a letter to the Irish Times questioning the IRFU playing Rory Best a week (I think) after he suffered a concussion. O'Carroll also suffered a concussion in an All Ireland final but played on, which drew criticism (at the management/medical staff, not him).
I don't think it's much of an issue in the GAA though, and a shoulder "charge" is a foul and very rarely happens. I don't watch AFL, but I'd imagine it must be a big issue there.

I've seen lots of concussions in football and there are no protocols effectively in place. I have emailed the IRFU ones to parents after games as coaches have no clue.

[wixfjord]

For once, I fully agree with Dave (well not fully, I still enjoy 7s as a guilty pleasure but...).
7s is a purely artificial game that has very little to no relevance to the full game.