Academy 2016/2017

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Academy 2016/2017

Postby goreyguy » June 23rd, 2016, 9:42 am

Prop
Oisin Heffernan(Year 2/TH Prop/Terenure)
Jeremy Loughman(Year 2/TH Prop/UCD)
Andrew Porter(Year 1/LH Prop/UCD)

Hooker
Sean McNulty(Year 2/UCD)

Lock
David O'Connor(Year 2/St. Marys)
James Ryan(Year 1/UCD)

Backrow
Peadar Timmins(Year 3/UCD)
Josh Murphy(Year 2/UCD)
Will Connors(Year 1/UCD)
Max Deegan(Year 1/Lansdowne)

Scrumhalf
Nick McCarthy(Year 3/UCD)
Charlie Rock(Year 2/Old Belvo)

Outhalf
Ross Byrne(Year 3/UCD)
Joey Carbery(Year 2/Clontarf)

Centre
Rory O'Loughlin(Year 3/Old Belvo)
Conor O'Brien(Year 1/Clontarf)
Jimmy O'Brien(Year 1/UCD)

Back Three
Ian Fitzpatrick(Year 3/Lansdowne)
Hugo Keenan(Year 1/UCD)
Jack Power(Year 1/Clontarf)
Terry Kennedy(Year 1/St. Marys)
Jordan Larmour(Year 1/St. Marys)

Oldest player: Peadar Timmins
Youngest player: Jordan Larmour
Last edited by goreyguy on January 13th, 2017, 12:43 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Academy 2016/2017

Postby Peg Leg » June 23rd, 2016, 11:17 am

The back 3 output from the Academy has been below the requisite standard in recent years, discuss.
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Re: Academy 2016/2017

Postby goreyguy » June 23rd, 2016, 11:49 am

Peg Leg wrote:The back output from the Academy has been below the requisite standard in recent years, discuss.


:happy clapper:
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Re: Academy 2016/2017

Postby Dave Cahill » June 23rd, 2016, 12:58 pm

Peg Leg wrote:The back 3 output from the Academy has been below the requisite standard in recent years, discuss.


The back 3 input into the Academy has been below the requisite standard in recent years.
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Re: Academy 2016/2017

Postby Donny B. » June 24th, 2016, 2:05 am

Dave Cahill wrote:
Peg Leg wrote:The back 3 output from the Academy has been below the requisite standard in recent years, discuss.


The back 3 input into the Academy has been below the requisite standard in recent years.


Exactly. People seem to think that a few years in the academy should transform decent but limited players into superstars but unfortunately reality doesn't work that way. We've two Leinster lads on the wing for the under-20s at the moment, but I'd be surprised if either of them make any significant impression in the professional game. We've had solid, decent lads like Ian Fitzpatrick, Mike Sherlock, Andrew Boyle, Sam Coghlan Murray and Darren Hudson.

Adam Byrne has a shot, Cian Kelleher may have had a shot but he's f%~ked off to Connacht, Dardis remains a victim of over-hyping at schools level but may still have a chance. That's about it people!
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Re: Academy 2016/2017

Postby goreyguy » June 24th, 2016, 12:53 pm

Donny B. wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:
Peg Leg wrote:The back 3 output from the Academy has been below the requisite standard in recent years, discuss.


The back 3 input into the Academy has been below the requisite standard in recent years.


Exactly. People seem to think that a few years in the academy should transform decent but limited players into superstars but unfortunately reality doesn't work that way. We've two Leinster lads on the wing for the under-20s at the moment, but I'd be surprised if either of them make any significant impression in the professional game. We've had solid, decent lads like Ian Fitzpatrick, Mike Sherlock, Andrew Boyle, Sam Coghlan Murray and Darren Hudson.

Adam Byrne has a shot, Cian Kelleher may have had a shot but he's f%~ked off to Connacht, Dardis remains a victim of over-hyping at schools level but may still have a chance. That's about it people!


There are various issues regarding the non development of elite backs.. coaching at academy level is just one factor at play.

The non further development of many backs through the academy in recent years should be treated as a concern, especially when other provinces have taken players who weren't considered elite prospects and developed them.

The gap between the number of talented forwards and the number of backs being produced by the underage development system needs addressing by Leinster.
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Re: Academy 2016/2017

Postby scentofgunpowder » June 24th, 2016, 1:23 pm

There are various issues regarding the non development of elite backs.. coaching at academy level is just one factor at play.

The non further development of many backs through the academy in recent years should be treated as a concern, especially when other provinces have taken players who weren't considered elite prospects and developed them.

The gap between the number of talented forwards and the number of backs being produced by the underage development system needs addressing by Leinster.[/quote]

I'd say Leinster are nearly the best club in the world at producing forwards so the bar is set fairly high!
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Re: Academy 2016/2017

Postby goreyguy » June 24th, 2016, 2:13 pm

scentofgunpowder wrote:
I'd say Leinster are nearly the best club in the world at producing forwards so the bar is set fairly high!


I'd say that would be overstating it a bit, but certainly the system is very good at producing talented forwards hopefully this continue to translate and some of our younger forwards keep developing over the next few years, then maybe that statement will be closer to being true.

But just because we have a very good recent record at developing forwards doesn't mean we should ignore the recent downturn in producing and developing high quality backs. Leinster should be doing a lot better in this area.

it's all about player development, with the right coaching and structures/environment at underage and academy level, high level backs will be produced.
it's just about ensuring that the coaching & enviroment exsists for it to happen, right now you'd have to say there is something wrong with how the system works when it comes to ensuring high level backs are developed.
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Re: Academy 2016/2017

Postby sunshiner1 » June 24th, 2016, 3:07 pm

There are various issues regarding the non development of elite backs.. coaching at academy level is just one factor at play.


It's a BIG factor though. Look at Peter Robb at Connacht. He was ordinary at Leinster under-age teams and then goes to Connacht and we see a massive improvement. If some of our backs got the same level of attention as Robb did we would be world beaters again.
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Re: Academy 2016/2017

Postby leinsterforever » June 24th, 2016, 3:36 pm

sunshiner1 wrote:
There are various issues regarding the non development of elite backs.. coaching at academy level is just one factor at play.


It's a BIG factor though. Look at Peter Robb at Connacht. He was ordinary at Leinster under-age teams and then goes to Connacht and we see a massive improvement. If some of our backs got the same level of attention as Robb did we would be world beaters again.


Robb's improvement has been marked, and Leinster should aim to be able to improve their young backs in a similar way. However, it's hard to say if Robb's development is all down to the work of the Connacht Academy. The academy players train with the full squad at Connacht I think, so Lam's vision for technical improvement, and the coaching of Ellis and co. would likely be responsible for a big part of the improvement
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Re: Academy 2016/2017

Postby goreyguy » June 24th, 2016, 3:53 pm

sunshiner1 wrote:
There are various issues regarding the non development of elite backs.. coaching at academy level is just one factor at play.


It's a BIG factor though. Look at Peter Robb at Connacht. He was ordinary at Leinster under-age teams and then goes to Connacht and we see a massive improvement. If some of our backs got the same level of attention as Robb did we would be world beaters again.


I agree, it's certainly a factor. Rarely does a very good underage back enter the leinster academy and leave a much improved player.

It's a double edged problem... the underage system is struggling to produce uber talents in the backline and also the talented players that are being produced aren't being developed into better players in the academy.
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Re: Academy 2016/2017

Postby goreyguy » June 24th, 2016, 3:54 pm

leinsterforever wrote:
sunshiner1 wrote:
There are various issues regarding the non development of elite backs.. coaching at academy level is just one factor at play.


It's a BIG factor though. Look at Peter Robb at Connacht. He was ordinary at Leinster under-age teams and then goes to Connacht and we see a massive improvement. If some of our backs got the same level of attention as Robb did we would be world beaters again.


Robb's improvement has been marked, and Leinster should aim to be able to improve their young backs in a similar way. However, it's hard to say if Robb's development is all down to the work of the Connacht Academy. The academy players train with the full squad at Connacht I think, so Lam's vision for technical improvement, and the coaching of Ellis and co. would likely be responsible for a big part of the improvement


Leinster academy players train with the senior squad too, although maybe not as much, granted the backs have been coached now by Dempsey for a long time. His record of developing those backs is not great.

Connacht academy players have access to better senior coaches and academy coaches.. it's not surprising they develop better over there. I'm hoping esposure to Carolan will help some of our underage backs develop and maybe some of his coaching methods will be standarised across academies.
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Re: Academy 2016/2017

Postby goreyguy » June 24th, 2016, 4:13 pm

I'd say there are two elite outside back prospects in the underage system: Jack Kelly(u19) & Conor Nash(u18).

Nash has been lost to the AFL, Kelly will almost certainly make the academy next summer. Now it's to be seen if Kelly gets to Ringrose's level but I'd be hopefuly he'd get close.
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Re: Academy 2016/2017

Postby Peg Leg » June 24th, 2016, 6:30 pm

Beating all before them in the B&I could be hindering the development
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Re: Academy 2016/2017

Postby simonokeeffe » June 24th, 2016, 7:29 pm

Peg Leg wrote:Beating all before them in the B&I could be hindering the development


something the other provinces having trouble with
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Academy 2016/2017

Postby goreyguy » June 24th, 2016, 8:03 pm

Peg Leg wrote:Beating all before them in the B&I could be hindering the development


not sure if you are being sarcastic or not..

not sure what value B&I cup has in terms individual development of skills, which is where our backs struggle the most.
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Re: Academy 2016/2017

Postby Peg Leg » June 24th, 2016, 10:00 pm

goreyguy wrote:
Peg Leg wrote:Beating all before them in the B&I could be hindering the development


not sure if you are being sarcastic or not..

not sure what value B&I cup has in terms individual development of skills, which is where our backs struggle the most.

Was being genuine, if the coaches are happy with the A team progress based on the results of this competition, then they are getting a false positive. If you get my meaning.
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Re: Academy 2016/2017

Postby Donny B. » June 25th, 2016, 12:19 am

goreyguy wrote:
There are various issues regarding the non development of elite backs.. coaching at academy level is just one factor at play.

The non further development of many backs through the academy in recent years should be treated as a concern, especially when other provinces have taken players who weren't considered elite prospects and developed them.

The gap between the number of talented forwards and the number of backs being produced by the underage development system needs addressing by Leinster.


This point is frankly overplayed. Matt Healy was an average scrum-half in his Leinster underage days. He only really started playing wing for his club and he got a few Leinster A caps before Connacht took a chance on him. Niyi Adeolokun wasn't on anyone's radar at under-age level, because frankly he was lazy as sin. I know a chap who coached him and he required major work even to get fit enough for Division 2 rugby with Trinity. Now his development over the last year and a half has been sensational and it's brilliant to see, but using him as a stick to beat the Leinster academy is a stretch. As for Peter Robb, he was never in the Leinster academy. He's a strong lad and will hopefully develop into a replacement for Henshaw, but he's still far from the finished article.
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Re: Academy 2016/2017

Postby goreyguy » June 25th, 2016, 1:42 pm

Donny B. wrote:
goreyguy wrote:
There are various issues regarding the non development of elite backs.. coaching at academy level is just one factor at play.

The non further development of many backs through the academy in recent years should be treated as a concern, especially when other provinces have taken players who weren't considered elite prospects and developed them.

The gap between the number of talented forwards and the number of backs being produced by the underage development system needs addressing by Leinster.


This point is frankly overplayed. Matt Healy was an average scrum-half in his Leinster underage days. He only really started playing wing for his club and he got a few Leinster A caps before Connacht took a chance on him. Niyi Adeolokun wasn't on anyone's radar at under-age level, because frankly he was lazy as sin. I know a chap who coached him and he required major work even to get fit enough for Division 2 rugby with Trinity. Now his development over the last year and a half has been sensational and it's brilliant to see, but using him as a stick to beat the Leinster academy is a stretch. As for Peter Robb, he was never in the Leinster academy. He's a strong lad and will hopefully develop into a replacement for Henshaw, but he's still far from the finished article.



What about Marmion & TOH?
Or Rory Scannell?
They weren't considered elite prospects at u20 level like a Ringrose was.
Leinsters record of developing the underage backs that make their academy over the past 5 years might be the worst of any province.
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Re: Academy 2016/2017

Postby simonokeeffe » June 25th, 2016, 1:49 pm

Marmion played 14 times for Ireland u20 via exiles so he was pretty highly regarded/well flagged, that he was signed on a senior contract not academy reinforces that
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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