European Rugby Champions Cup

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup

Postby simonokeeffe » May 18th, 2017, 6:18 pm

I joked about it but it might be with one eye on expanding Pro12
Other options are a kick up the arse for the Italians but good Challenge Cup runs and home wins would do more for them

I crunched the numbers before on here but when there were 2 Italian teams their pools only produced an average of one best runner up. But with 20 teams not 24 the one is almost guaranteed now
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup

Postby neiliog93 » May 18th, 2017, 6:23 pm

It's a good idea, I'm not sure how the mandatory Italian presence really develops the game there and they drag the competition down. Also good for Irish provinces (well, probably Connacht, and maybe Ulster in a poor season), finishing in the top 7 but missing out on ECC qualification.
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup

Postby Peg Leg » May 18th, 2017, 9:55 pm

So do IRFU, SRU & WRU split FIR's share or does it just automatically make it's way to LNR and PR? The problem with Italian rugby is the FIR. They must be getting a serious wedge of cash from all of the euro club comps and the 6N.
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup

Postby rooster » May 19th, 2017, 12:34 pm

Would be interesting to know what the split for everyone is now that the guarantee the PRO12 of not being worse off than in old system has run out, the sponsorship money certainly is under pressure as is once from ticket sales
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup

Postby simonokeeffe » May 19th, 2017, 4:05 pm

Am guessing Italians are getting the short straw here as its not like they can play somewhere else for more money even with a reduction
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup

Postby blockhead » November 26th, 2017, 9:31 pm

Saracens 18-20 Exeter. Chiefs now 5 points clear at top of prem.
Going to be a tough back-to-back against these lads.
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup

Postby yellabelly1961 » November 26th, 2017, 9:46 pm

blockhead wrote:Saracens 18-20 Exeter. Chiefs now 5 points clear at top of prem.
Going to be a tough back-to-back against these lads.

Sarries would have been hit by more call -ups to the AIs though?
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup

Postby brotheroffrank » November 26th, 2017, 9:47 pm

They will be saying that about us!
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup

Postby COYBIB » November 27th, 2017, 5:59 pm

I really think the FIR should consider consolidating Treviso and Zerbre into one professional team based out of Rome and look to have essentially the entire Italian squad consolidated into one club side. They don't have the playing depth for two professional teams and although the north are the "rugby strongholds", I'd imagine a Rome based team could at least match the 3 or 4 thousand that show up to home games for those clubs as it is.

It just makes a lot more sense in my opinion. In terms of how that would affect the league, there are various options to fill the vacant space, I would suggest either a single professional team comprised of Georgia and Romania internationals, or more likely Canada and USA, but a pro team combining two developing nations may be the way forward and of course opens up those additional commercial avenues Pro rugby seeks.
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup

Postby TerenureJim » November 28th, 2017, 12:31 am

COYBIB wrote:I really think the FIR should consider consolidating Treviso and Zerbre into one professional team based out of Rome and look to have essentially the entire Italian squad consolidated into one club side. They don't have the playing depth for two professional teams and although the north are the "rugby strongholds", I'd imagine a Rome based team could at least match the 3 or 4 thousand that show up to home games for those clubs as it is.

It just makes a lot more sense in my opinion. In terms of how that would affect the league, there are various options to fill the vacant space, I would suggest either a single professional team comprised of Georgia and Romania internationals, or more likely Canada and USA, but a pro team combining two developing nations may be the way forward and of course opens up those additional commercial avenues Pro rugby seeks.


No. Two pro sides is a minimum, you need derby games, you need competition and bite between players from different regions for that national jersey if that's lost then Italian rugby whithers on the vine and slowly but surely the French and English club owners will get what they want.

The Italians are improving, it takes years and years to build the structure but they're starting to get more regular results.

You're going down a line that would have cut Connacht a few years back, it's a slippery slope.
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup

Postby Ruckedtobits » November 28th, 2017, 7:59 am

TerenureJim wrote:
COYBIB wrote:I really think the FIR should consider consolidating Treviso and Zerbre into one professional team based out of Rome and look to have essentially the entire Italian squad consolidated into one club side. They don't have the playing depth for two professional teams and although the north are the "rugby strongholds", I'd imagine a Rome based team could at least match the 3 or 4 thousand that show up to home games for those clubs as it is.

It just makes a lot more sense in my opinion. In terms of how that would affect the league, there are various options to fill the vacant space, I would suggest either a single professional team comprised of Georgia and Romania internationals, or more likely Canada and USA, but a pro team combining two developing nations may be the way forward and of course opens up those additional commercial avenues Pro rugby seeks.


No. Two pro sides is a minimum, you need derby games, you need competition and bite between players from different regions for that national jersey if that's lost then Italian rugby whithers on the vine and slowly but surely the French and English club owners will get what they want.

The Italians are improving, it takes years and years to build the structure but they're starting to get more regular results.

You're going down a line that would have cut Connacht a few years back, it's a slippery slope.


+1
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup

Postby Ruckedtobits » November 28th, 2017, 7:59 am

TerenureJim wrote:
COYBIB wrote:I really think the FIR should consider consolidating Treviso and Zerbre into one professional team based out of Rome and look to have essentially the entire Italian squad consolidated into one club side. They don't have the playing depth for two professional teams and although the north are the "rugby strongholds", I'd imagine a Rome based team could at least match the 3 or 4 thousand that show up to home games for those clubs as it is.

It just makes a lot more sense in my opinion. In terms of how that would affect the league, there are various options to fill the vacant space, I would suggest either a single professional team comprised of Georgia and Romania internationals, or more likely Canada and USA, but a pro team combining two developing nations may be the way forward and of course opens up those additional commercial avenues Pro rugby seeks.


No. Two pro sides is a minimum, you need derby games, you need competition and bite between players from different regions for that national jersey if that's lost then Italian rugby whithers on the vine and slowly but surely the French and English club owners will get what they want.

The Italians are improving, it takes years and years to build the structure but they're starting to get more regular results.

You're going down a line that would have cut Connacht a few years back, it's a slippery slope.


+1
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup

Postby molloyjh » November 28th, 2017, 10:11 am

TerenureJim wrote:No. Two pro sides is a minimum, you need derby games, you need competition and bite between players from different regions for that national jersey if that's lost then Italian rugby whithers on the vine and slowly but surely the French and English club owners will get what they want.

The Italians are improving, it takes years and years to build the structure but they're starting to get more regular results.

You're going down a line that would have cut Connacht a few years back, it's a slippery slope.


:happy clapper:
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup

Postby Edna Kenny » November 28th, 2017, 10:47 am

The premiership are back in discussion today as to whether they should scrap relegation and close up the shop. I seem to remember the lack of relegation being used against the Pro 12 teams as a reason why they had an advantage in the European Cup.
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup

Postby riocard911 » November 28th, 2017, 10:58 am

Edna Kenny wrote:The premiership are back in discussion today as to whether they should scrap relegation and close up the shop. I seem to remember the lack of relegation being used against the Pro 12 teams as a reason why they had an advantage in the European Cup.


The Nigels will spout any bolloxology to keep their boat afloat (Must be where the Brexiteers got it....). Many of the Premiership clubs e.g. Wasps are living way beyond their means. Hopefully the day of financial reckoning is near.
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup

Postby neill_m » November 28th, 2017, 11:42 am

TerenureJim wrote:
COYBIB wrote:I really think the FIR should consider consolidating Treviso and Zerbre into one professional team based out of Rome and look to have essentially the entire Italian squad consolidated into one club side. They don't have the playing depth for two professional teams and although the north are the "rugby strongholds", I'd imagine a Rome based team could at least match the 3 or 4 thousand that show up to home games for those clubs as it is.

It just makes a lot more sense in my opinion. In terms of how that would affect the league, there are various options to fill the vacant space, I would suggest either a single professional team comprised of Georgia and Romania internationals, or more likely Canada and USA, but a pro team combining two developing nations may be the way forward and of course opens up those additional commercial avenues Pro rugby seeks.


No. Two pro sides is a minimum, you need derby games, you need competition and bite between players from different regions for that national jersey if that's lost then Italian rugby whithers on the vine and slowly but surely the French and English club owners will get what they want.

The Italians are improving, it takes years and years to build the structure but they're starting to get more regular results.

You're going down a line that would have cut Connacht a few years back, it's a slippery slope.


Agreed. Argentina are basically picking their national side from the Jaguares side in Super Rugby and it is hurting them.
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup

Postby Laighin Break » November 28th, 2017, 12:12 pm

Edna Kenny wrote:The premiership are back in discussion today as to whether they should scrap relegation and close up the shop. I seem to remember the lack of relegation being used against the Pro 12 teams as a reason why they had an advantage in the European Cup.


I remember it being used against the Pro12 teams as a reason why they had a disadvantage in the Heino Cup. Then when Munster and then Leinster started winning, it changed from a disadvantage to an advantage :lol:
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup

Postby Cianostays » November 28th, 2017, 1:51 pm

riocard911 wrote:
Edna Kenny wrote:The premiership are back in discussion today as to whether they should scrap relegation and close up the shop. I seem to remember the lack of relegation being used against the Pro 12 teams as a reason why they had an advantage in the European Cup.


The Nigels will spout any bolloxology to keep their boat afloat (Must be where the Brexiteers got it....). Many of the Premiership clubs e.g. Wasps are living way beyond their means. Hopefully the day of financial reckoning is near.
Are you sure about Wasps? They own the Ricoh Arena which has a very profitable conference centre and casino. Perhaps I'm wrong.

You do have to wonder have the RFU noted the issues the French team now has due to the amount of foreign players in the Top 14. It'll be intresting to see how they handle the PRL trying to make the league into an economic free for all.

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup

Postby riocard911 » November 28th, 2017, 2:06 pm

The departure of Marty Moore to Ulster a year short of the end of his three year contract was described recently in certain quarters as a cost-cutting measure in the face of financial difficulties. Don't know the precise details myself.
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup

Postby molloyjh » November 28th, 2017, 2:08 pm

Cianostays wrote:
riocard911 wrote:
Edna Kenny wrote:The premiership are back in discussion today as to whether they should scrap relegation and close up the shop. I seem to remember the lack of relegation being used against the Pro 12 teams as a reason why they had an advantage in the European Cup.


The Nigels will spout any bolloxology to keep their boat afloat (Must be where the Brexiteers got it....). Many of the Premiership clubs e.g. Wasps are living way beyond their means. Hopefully the day of financial reckoning is near.
Are you sure about Wasps? They own the Ricoh Arena which has a very profitable conference centre and casino. Perhaps I'm wrong.

You do have to wonder have the RFU noted the issues the French team now has due to the amount of foreign players in the Top 14. It'll be intresting to see how they handle the PRL trying to make the league into an economic free for all.

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Apparently they are struggling to make their bondholder payments. There was talk of having to refinance the debt at some point too, but I've no idea if that happened.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/ ... h-12759835
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