New Bath head coach Tabai Matson was approached by Leinster

[Dave Cahill]

I think people are being extremely unfair on this current coaching ticket.

There are a lot of people posting about how people are being unfair on the coaching ticket but very few people actually posting unfairly about the coaching ticket. Its a bit like the (apocryphal?) communist party cell in California that was infiltrated by an FBI agent only to find out that the entire cell was composed of infiltrating FBI agents.

They are all inexperienced coaches ( apart from McQuilkin ) and as was previously pointed out in this forum, knowing your own weaknesses is far from a weakness in itself. I truly believe we will have a far better European campaign this year. When you look back at it, apart from both Wasps matches, we didn't have all that bad of a Champions Cup. For a coach in his first year to have to deal with a World Cup where the vast majority of his starting XV and substitutes where gone he did well at the beginning of the Pro 12.

Both Wasps matches were disasters, granted. However, apart from a poor decision to kick at goal from half-way away to Bath instead of going for the try when we were in the complete ascendancy we could easily have one. We pushed Toulon very hard twice also, and could and probably should have won in the Aviva. We beat Bath, who I'll admit were terrible last year, at home with an extremely inexperienced team.

In the Pro 12, we actually began to run the ball again. People look back at the season based on the Pro 12 final where we simply didn't show up but people forget we were missing our captain and our main line-out caller, and a few times we messed decent attacking positions in that first half. With another year of experience, a full pre-season for the WHOLE squad, a few weeks working under Father Ted and a decent European draw I think we'll do a lot better.

The experiences gained from last year will only help players like Tracy, Molony, JVDF, McGrath and Ringrose. The only criticism I have is that of the the recruitment of NIQ players but thats for a different forum and a different time of year!

There is no way on earth that you can in any way suggest that last seasons european campaign was anything less than a complete f%~king onmishambles. Even the win against Bath highlighted what a poor campaign it was because all the exciting younger players that made what should have been a run of the mill win against dreadful opposition something worthwhile and valuable were promptly dropped for the next round.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

That would be one of my big criticisms, that the guys who destroyed Bath weren't developed further so as to be good to go for the start of this season.

[leinsterforever]

The way Cullen's Leinster struggled in Europe last season illustrates how little top level playing experience counts for when it comes to coaching. Surely someone who knows how to coach would be better, even if they didn't have any top flight experience?

I think Kieran Keane would be the perfect guy to go after. It might be possible to tempt him over if he doesn't get the Chiefs gig when Rennie moves on

[molloyjh]

The all-important context of Europe last season was that we only had players back in camp a week or two ahead of the first Wasps game. Sexton was back into a completely different team to the one he left and the internationals had feck all time under the new set-up. When you look at it from that perspective it probably shouldn't come as much of a surprise that we were cr@p that day. Against Bath the following week it was a poor scrum and one or two poor calls that cost us. But we weren't blown off the park. The Toulon games saw us competitive for the first 40-60. In the Aviva in particular the only reason they won was because they had a far, far better bench than we had. They brought on Gorgodze, we brought on Denton. The Bath game at home was a big positive. The only game I would class as an utter disaster was the last game against Wasps. And even then we were going well until Sexton went off.

Sure there are issues, our blunt attack and lack of depth in certain areas top the list of issues, but last season could have been a whole lot worse given the circumstances. As I said before Leo did well enough to deserve a stay of execution. With a proper pre-season and a better European pool this season is the one to judge the guy, and his assistants, on. Calling in Henry was a hugely constructive move and fair play. Sending Girv off to NZ was also a positive move.

As for Matson, did anyone hear the radio interview the article was based on? He spoke about connecting with Leinster and then "more recently" with Toulon before Bath got in touch. Maybe we were looking as far back as the New Year or something, but I do wonder was he approached after MOC left and decided to turn it down in the hopes of getting the Crusaders gig. I can't see him ever considering a skills coach role or anything like that given where he was with the Crusaders. Approaching him last year for head coach would fit better with what Leinster were after over the last 14 months.

[jezzer]

I think people are being extremely unfair on this current coaching ticket. They are all inexperienced coaches ( apart from McQuilkin ) and as was previously pointed out in this forum, knowing your own weaknesses is far from a weakness in itself. I truly believe we will have a far better European campaign this year. When you look back at it, apart from both Wasps matches, we didn't have all that bad of a Champions Cup. For a coach in his first year to have to deal with a World Cup where the vast majority of his starting XV and substitutes where gone he did well at the beginning of the Pro 12.

Both Wasps matches were disasters, granted. However, apart from a poor decision to kick at goal from half-way away to Bath instead of going for the try when we were in the complete ascendancy we could easily have one. We pushed Toulon very hard twice also, and could and probably should have won in the Aviva. We beat Bath, who I'll admit were terrible last year, at home with an extremely inexperienced team.

In the Pro 12, we actually began to run the ball again. People look back at the season based on the Pro 12 final where we simply didn't show up but people forget we were missing our captain and our main line-out caller, and a few times we messed decent attacking positions in that first half. With another year of experience, a full pre-season for the WHOLE squad, a few weeks working under Father Ted and a decent European draw I think we'll do a lot better.

The experiences gained from last year will only help players like Tracy, Molony, JVDF, McGrath and Ringrose. The only criticism I have is that of the the recruitment of NIQ players but thats for a different forum and a different time of year!

The question Erskine is what the he'll are we doing with inexperienced coaches in the first place and should we not be looking at every addition/replacement option for experienced proven coaches? We can't compete in the player salary bonanza that's going on, but we could throw top money at a top coach and hope that better training helps us climb the pool ladder.

Sticking with newbies, having not managed to improve your squad massively, doesn't seem like the smartest move in a business where failure has a high financial penalty.

[erskinechilders]

The question Erskine is what the he'll are we doing with inexperienced coaches in the first place and should we not be looking at every addition/replacement option for experienced proven coaches? We can't compete in the player salary bonanza that's going on, but we could throw top money at a top coach and hope that better training helps us climb the pool ladder.

Sticking with newbies, having not managed to improve your squad massively, doesn't seem like the smartest move in a business where failure has a high financial penalty.

I agree with you that inexperienced coaches are not the best solution but giving them time to adapt and learn is crucial. While there wasn't massive improvement there certainly was improvement, and prior to todays' announcement, I was confident heading into the season. McQuilkins loss is immeasurable and there is no way we will be going into the season prepared. When and if we do appoint a new defence coach the players will have to learn a whole new set of systems mid-season, far from ideal.

In an ideal world Schmidt extends his contract by 2 years, we got Dave Rennie for the next 2 seasons until he leaves to replace Joe and then Leo & Birch take over together!

[jezzer]

The question Erskine is what the he'll are we doing with inexperienced coaches in the first place and should we not be looking at every addition/replacement option for experienced proven coaches? We can't compete in the player salary bonanza that's going on, but we could throw top money at a top coach and hope that better training helps us climb the pool ladder.

Sticking with newbies, having not managed to improve your squad massively, doesn't seem like the smartest move in a business where failure has a high financial penalty.

I agree with you that inexperienced coaches are not the best solution but giving them time to adapt and learn is crucial. While there wasn't massive improvement there certainly was improvement, and prior to todays' announcement, I was confident heading into the season. McQuilkins loss is immeasurable and there is no way we will be going into the season prepared. When and if we do appoint a new defence coach the players will have to learn a whole new set of systems mid-season, far from ideal.

In an ideal world Schmidt extends his contract by 2 years, we got Dave Rennie for the next 2 seasons until he leaves to replace Joe and then Leo & Birch take over together!

Why is giving them time crucial if you can just replace them with someone better?

Truth is hiring Leo was a terrible idea. Very unlikely to succeed, totally unnecessary and very hard to move on from without political repercussions. But Girve has maybe been the bigger disappointment for me. I thought he might be ready.

[Dave Cahill]

Why is giving them time crucial if you can just replace them with someone better?

Can we? Isn't our current situation proof that we can't - or couldn't at least.

[jezzer]

Why is giving them time crucial if you can just replace them with someone better?

Can we? Isn't our current situation proof that we can't - or couldn't at least.

Depends how hard we tried and how much moolah was on the table. Clearly not enough.

[Dave Cahill]

Unless Moolah means Joe Schmidt and not enough means too much, then moolah wasn't the problem.

[Peg Leg]

Unless Moolah means Joe Schmidt and not enough means too much, then moolah wasn't the problem.

Well Joe was still on the table when the IRFU's capital investment wing landed Erasmus.

[molloyjh]

Why is giving them time crucial if you can just replace them with someone better?

Can we? Isn't our current situation proof that we can't - or couldn't at least.

Depends how hard we tried and how much moolah was on the table. Clearly not enough.

The issue wasn't money. It was time. We had 2 months to find a new coach when most would have been under contract for the coming season. If you're replacing your coach you need to give yourself adequate time to search for, interview and select a replacement. Leinster did not have that time.

[Dave Cahill]

Unless Moolah means Joe Schmidt and not enough means too much, then moolah wasn't the problem.

Well Joe was still on the table when the IRFU's capital investment wing landed Erasmus.

Munster have far fewer Irish internationals, fewer potential Irish internationals and a lower set of (realistic) expectations. The level of interference would be orders of magnitude lower.

[Dave Cahill]

The issue wasn't money. It was time. We had 2 months to find a new coach when most would have been under contract for the coming season. If you're replacing your coach you need to give yourself adequate time to search for, interview and select a replacement. Leinster did not have that time.

But, but, but weren't we told that all we had to do was give the lad the heave ho and world class coaches would be queuing up outside the Leinster Rugby headquarters like nymphos on mickey monday.

[Oldschoolsocks]

The issue wasn't money. It was time. We had 2 months to find a new coach when most would have been under contract for the coming season. If you're replacing your coach you need to give yourself adequate time to search for, interview and select a replacement. Leinster did not have that time.

But, but, but weren't we told that all we had to do was give the lad the heave ho and world class coaches would be queuing up outside the Leinster Rugby headquarters like nymphos on mickey monday.

Ahhh mickey money night, halcyon days indeed