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LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
If it was a straight shoot out between Rennie choosing Leinster or Glasgow next summer and we lost out then I think you'd have a point, but let's be fair and put things in context. Who knows, maybe it was us who rejected those guys, we simply don't know.
One of our biggest competitors appoints a world class coach after a leinster season marked by coaching inadequecies and thats a positive how?Logorrhea wrote:Scottish team appoint a coach and somehow it manages to offer the same people another opportunity to be relentlessly negative.
This forum is broken.
Dave Cahill wrote:
Is Leos contract up at the end of this season?
I never said it was a positive. I suggested people using it to flog the same dead horse is daft. The conversation on this forum is active, but broken. Some people are so sure they are on another Titanic that all they can see is icebergs. Its "Make Leinster great again" kinda b*%&!x.Dave Cahill wrote:One of our biggest competitors appoints a world class coach after a leinster season marked by coaching inadequecies and thats a positive how?Logorrhea wrote:Scottish team appoint a coach and somehow it manages to offer the same people another opportunity to be relentlessly negative.
This forum is broken.
thats under the assumption leinster would have been incapable of replacing Leo with a better coach, if they had spent last season recruiting one.simonokeeffe wrote:If we'd given Leo the heave ho this off season we'd be in the same position only worse as when Leo was appointed
The dead horse is our ambition of attracting top intnl players to the club. I think we're all more or less resigned to that- it's out of the club's control.Logorrhea wrote:I never said it was a positive. I suggested people using it to flog the same dead horse is daft. The conversation on this forum is active, but broken. Some people are so sure they are on another Titanic that all they can see is icebergs. Its "Make Leinster great again" kinda b*%&!x.Dave Cahill wrote:One of our biggest competitors appoints a world class coach after a leinster season marked by coaching inadequecies and thats a positive how?Logorrhea wrote:Scottish team appoint a coach and somehow it manages to offer the same people another opportunity to be relentlessly negative.
This forum is broken.
That's irrelevant to me because I don't think we should be planning for a new coach to that extent. We should always have something in mind for every single aspect of the organisation in case people leave or we need to improve, but I think it's far too early to actually seek out and appoint a new head coach for 2017.Dave Cahill wrote:LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
If it was a straight shoot out between Rennie choosing Leinster or Glasgow next summer and we lost out then I think you'd have a point, but let's be fair and put things in context. Who knows, maybe it was us who rejected those guys, we simply don't know.
Is Leos contract up at the end of this season?
Hear! Hear!LeRouxIsPHat wrote:That's irrelevant to me because I don't think we should be planning for a new coach to that extent. We should always have something in mind for every single aspect of the organisation in case people leave or we need to improve, but I think it's far too early to actually seek out and appoint a new head coach for 2017.Dave Cahill wrote:LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
If it was a straight shoot out between Rennie choosing Leinster or Glasgow next summer and we lost out then I think you'd have a point, but let's be fair and put things in context. Who knows, maybe it was us who rejected those guys, we simply don't know.
Is Leos contract up at the end of this season?
As Simon alluded to, I wouldn't be happy with Leo being a lame duck for this season. To my mind he did some good work last season and I'm hoping we kick on from that this season. We may not, and if the signs aren't good in the first few months then we should be looking harder for a replacement, but to my mind it is far too early to give up on the coach who improved upon our play (that's my opinion anyway) from the previous season and got us to a Pro12 final while introducing plenty of young players along the way.
As usual, people take that to mean that I think we had a fine season when that's not what I said. We had issues and there aspects of Leo's decision making and the general coaching that I wasn't happy with, but personally I think we're on an upward curve. It might not be a steep one but I think we're heading in the right direction. That does not equate to me thinking Leo is the best coach in the world and people are mad to question him, which seems to be the basis of a lot of people's arguments against my opinion.
Of course we could. We could have kept MOC, honored his contract and kept on declining. We didn't. We replaced him, hired an inexperienced Irish coach, and have since improved. But let’s not let reality spoil the "were doomed and its all Leo's fault" narrative.jezzer wrote:What's in our control is to have a top coaching setup to try to bring our player pool up to the level we need to be at to compete in Europe. Right now, we could hardly have done any worse a job since Joe left.
Nahhhh "people" (whoever they are) want the brand. Preferably a foreign brand cause foreign coaches make the sun shine, the ball stick and the players run faster. If we get Dave Rennie we'll play like the Chief's. If he's not available get Tony Brown and we'll be the new Highlanders. Sure it has to be Leo's fault that were not playing like the Southern Hemisphere team's.jezzer wrote:That's why people are pissed off. That's why we want coaching change, even if it hurts the feelings of the guy who should never have gotten the job.
Leinster Rugby should know now who they want to be head coach next season and should be well down the road to getting it formalised, if not having it formalised already - thats just how its done. You leave yourself too little time, you have too little choice. The 'lame duck' thing is meaningless, a post hoc excuse imported from soccer. If you have good pros then it simply isn't an issue at all, Leinster in 09-10 for example.LeRouxIsPHat wrote: That's irrelevant to me because I don't think we should be planning for a new coach to that extent. We should always have something in mind for every single aspect of the organisation in case people leave or we need to improve, but I think it's far too early to actually seek out and appoint a new head coach for 2017.
As Simon alluded to, I wouldn't be happy with Leo being a lame duck for this season. To my mind he did some good work last season and I'm hoping we kick on from that this season. We may not, and if the signs aren't good in the first few months then we should be looking harder for a replacement, but to my mind it is far too early to give up on the coach who improved upon our play (that's my opinion anyway) from the previous season and got us to a Pro12 final while introducing plenty of young players along the way.
As usual, people take that to mean that I think we had a fine season when that's not what I said. We had issues and there aspects of Leo's decision making and the general coaching that I wasn't happy with, but personally I think we're on an upward curve. It might not be a steep one but I think we're heading in the right direction. That does not equate to me thinking Leo is the best coach in the world and people are mad to question him, which seems to be the basis of a lot of people's arguments against my opinion.
I also think that we should give Leo the two seasons and support him fully on and off the pitch - something that patently isn't being done by Leinster Rugby. But I also believe that the reason why we had to appoint Leo in the first place is because no one else wanted the job.LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Except that we weren't losing Cheika because we didn't rate him, we lost him because he wanted to go and needed to be replaced. That's totally different. We gave Leo two seasons and I don't think he's done a bad enough job for him to be written off after one. If you do then fair play to you but like I said I think we're on an upward curve.
I don't actually mind people saying we should have gone for Rennie for next season if that option existed, but it's not how I'd approach it myself and it's certainly not scandalous that we haven't done so or a reflection of how attractive we are as a club.
I thought my wife had the monopoly on telling me what I think.Logorrhea wrote:Of course we could. We could have kept MOC, honored his contract and kept on declining. We didn't. We replaced him, hired an inexperienced Irish coach, and have since improved. But let’s not let reality spoil the "were doomed and its all Leo's fault" narrative.jezzer wrote:What's in our control is to have a top coaching setup to try to bring our player pool up to the level we need to be at to compete in Europe. Right now, we could hardly have done any worse a job since Joe left.
Nahhhh "people" (whoever they are) want the brand. Preferably a foreign brand cause foreign coaches make the sun shine, the ball stick and the players run faster. If we get Dave Rennie we'll play like the Chief's. If he's not available get Tony Brown and we'll be the new Highlanders. Sure it has to be Leo's fault that were not playing like the Southern Hemisphere team's.jezzer wrote:That's why people are pissed off. That's why we want coaching change, even if it hurts the feelings of the guy who should never have gotten the job.
People need to relax a little, park their agenda's for a few months at least, and give the ex-club captain, the player that led us to 3 HEC triumphs and raised the cups on some of our greatest days, the next (and possibly final) year on his contract to see if he could possibly, maybe just maybe, do a decent job. If this year is a disaster, then we can all go after him (god knows we've had loads of practice), but lets at least give him the chance to f**k it up first?
For Rennie.... yessimonokeeffe wrote:well Glasgow had something concrete to offer
were Leinster going to decide NOW that Leo is gone end of season regardless?
You don't believe they have the capacity to improve sufficiently as coaches? Cheika did for example. The backroom team could do with more experience but I think it's a bit harsh to write them off as not being up to standard when they had hardly any first choice squad members available until October. If the standards are no better this season then you may be right. Now it seems a little premature.goreyguy wrote:you can keep claiming last season was a good season, but it wasn't. It was mediocre. Neither Culllen or Girve are good enough to be leading leinster.LeRouxIsPHat wrote:This is very similar to what I was talking about last week. Some news comes out that's totally irrelevant and the perception of last season gets worse for no reason whatsoever.
Robbie Henshaw camejezzer wrote:The dead horse is our ambition of attracting top intnl players to the club. I think we're all more or less resigned to that- it's out of the club's control.Logorrhea wrote:I never said it was a positive. I suggested people using it to flog the same dead horse is daft. The conversation on this forum is active, but broken. Some people are so sure they are on another Titanic that all they can see is icebergs. Its "Make Leinster great again" kinda b*%&!x.Dave Cahill wrote:
One of our biggest competitors appoints a world class coach after a leinster season marked by coaching inadequecies and thats a positive how?
What's in our control is to have a top coaching setup to try to bring our player pool up to the level we need to be at to compete in Europe. Right now, we could hardly have done any worse a job since Joe left. If that continues, we are in the wilderness.
That's why people are pissed off. That's why we want coaching change, even if it hurts the feelings of the guy who should never have gotten the job.
+ 1Dave Cahill wrote:I also think that we should give Leo the two seasons and support him fully on and off the pitch - something that patently isn't being done by Leinster Rugby. But I also believe that the reason why we had to appoint Leo in the first place is because no one else wanted the job.LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Except that we weren't losing Cheika because we didn't rate him, we lost him because he wanted to go and needed to be replaced. That's totally different. We gave Leo two seasons and I don't think he's done a bad enough job for him to be written off after one. If you do then fair play to you but like I said I think we're on an upward curve.
I don't actually mind people saying we should have gone for Rennie for next season if that option existed, but it's not how I'd approach it myself and it's certainly not scandalous that we haven't done so or a reflection of how attractive we are as a club.
