Euro Squad 16/17

[simonokeeffe]

Anyone else see Tom Daly going the way of Collie O'Shea? He just doesn't seem to be getting a look-in.

Still no sign of any game-time for him. He must be getting pretty disillusioned at this stage.

Pretty much, seems like a seat filler

[Ruckedtobits]

Euro squad announced. 41 players this season. Ed Byrne, Tom Daly, Barry Daly and Billy Dardis the senior squad members not to make the cut. Carbery, Nick McCarthy, O'Loughlin and Porter the academy players in the squad.

LHP - Dooley, Healy, McGrath, Porter
THP - Bent, Furlong, Ross
Hooker - Byrne, Cronin, Strauss, Tracy
2nd Row - Kearney, McCarthy, Molony, Nagle, Toner, Triggs
Flanker - Leavy, Murphy, O'Brien, Ruddock, Ryan, vd Flier
No. 8 - Conan, Heaslip
SH - Gibson-Park, McCarthy, McGrath
FH - Carbery, Marsh, Sexton
Centre - Henshaw, O'Loughlin, Reid, Ringrose
Back 3 - Byrne, Kearney D, Kearney R, Kirchner, McFadden, Nacewa

Just banging this in here also. So. Of a squad of now 40 ........

Find it difficult to see how Triggs fits in there and believe it should be James Ryan (if for nothing else than the experience). Also consider than inclusion of Marsh is a waste and would prefer Tom Daly.

[wixfjord]

Euro squad announced. 41 players this season. Ed Byrne, Tom Daly, Barry Daly and Billy Dardis the senior squad members not to make the cut. Carbery, Nick McCarthy, O'Loughlin and Porter the academy players in the squad.

LHP - Dooley, Healy, McGrath, Porter
THP - Bent, Furlong, Ross
Hooker - Byrne, Cronin, Strauss, Tracy
2nd Row - Kearney, McCarthy, Molony, Nagle, Toner, Triggs
Flanker - Leavy, Murphy, O'Brien, Ruddock, Ryan, vd Flier
No. 8 - Conan, Heaslip
SH - Gibson-Park, McCarthy, McGrath
FH - Carbery, Marsh, Sexton
Centre - Henshaw, O'Loughlin, Reid, Ringrose
Back 3 - Byrne, Kearney D, Kearney R, Kirchner, McFadden, Nacewa

Just banging this in here also. So. Of a squad of now 40 ........

Find it difficult to see how Triggs fits in there and believe it should be James Ryan (if for nothing else than the experience). Also consider than inclusion of Marsh is a waste and would prefer Tom Daly.

Ah come on, bit of logic needed here! Triggs has Euro experience and could feasibly bench at some stage, same with Marsh. Who would we play if Sexton went down in first game? What extra experience would James Ryan get from being named in a 40 man squad?

[goreyguy]

Ryan over Triggs.
Byrne over Marsh.

[johng]

Euro squad announced. 41 players this season. Ed Byrne, Tom Daly, Barry Daly and Billy Dardis the senior squad members not to make the cut. Carbery, Nick McCarthy, O'Loughlin and Porter the academy players in the squad.

LHP - Dooley, Healy, McGrath, Porter
THP - Bent, Furlong, Ross
Hooker - Byrne, Cronin, Strauss, Tracy
2nd Row - Kearney, McCarthy, Molony, Nagle, Toner, Triggs
Flanker - Leavy, Murphy, O'Brien, Ruddock, Ryan, vd Flier
No. 8 - Conan, Heaslip
SH - Gibson-Park, McCarthy, McGrath
FH - Carbery, Marsh, Sexton
Centre - Henshaw, O'Loughlin, Reid, Ringrose
Back 3 - Byrne, Kearney D, Kearney R, Kirchner, McFadden, Nacewa

Just banging this in here also. So. Of a squad of now 40 ........

Find it difficult to see how Triggs fits in there and believe it should be James Ryan (if for nothing else than the experience). Also consider than inclusion of Marsh is a waste and would prefer Tom Daly.

I would put in Ross Byrne in too rather than Tom Daly, because we need 3 specialist OHs. However I would go with the coaching staff on Marsh.

Ross Byrne is just over injury and Ryan has not played a game yet at senior level. I don't see the point in rushing either of them as we are well stocked at 2nd row and there are plenty of pro12 games to give all 3 players (Byrne Daly Ryan) gametime.

[simonokeeffe]

wouldnt be surprised if Ryan captains the A side but he needs to be and probably is spending most of this season with his face strapped into a feedbag

going by AIL lineups he hasnt played for Landsdowne yet this season so hes getting an awesome pre season for gaining weight, coupled with another good preseason next summer (no JRWC) and he'll easily be big enough for pro rugby next summer
u20s have him listed as 6'8 and 108kg, should easily be pushing 120kg for next season

[irishrugbyua]

wouldnt be surprised if Ryan captains the A side but he needs to be and probably is spending most of this season with his face strapped into a feedbag

going by AIL lineups he hasnt played for Landsdowne yet this season so hes getting an awesome pre season for gaining weight, coupled with another good preseason next summer (no JRWC) and he'll easily be big enough for pro rugby next summer
u20s have him listed as 6'8 and 108kg, should easily be pushing 120kg for next season

James Ryan plays for UCD now and has played in all their games this season.

Expecting Ryan to put on 12kg of muscle in a season, is hugely unrealistic. It will be a slow process, so as to not overload him and risk injury.

[jezzer]

Makes you wonder if provincial players always join the Sevens setup with the province's blessing or not.....

Could just be they prefer Rory, which is not hard to believe either.

Daly played 13 for the Ireland U20s, but if he's now viewed exclusively as a 12 then he isn't really in direct competition with O'Loughlin

Maybe even more reason to wonder if his Sevens commitments have knocked back his progress.

[simonokeeffe]

wouldnt be surprised if Ryan captains the A side but he needs to be and probably is spending most of this season with his face strapped into a feedbag

going by AIL lineups he hasnt played for Landsdowne yet this season so hes getting an awesome pre season for gaining weight, coupled with another good preseason next summer (no JRWC) and he'll easily be big enough for pro rugby next summer
u20s have him listed as 6'8 and 108kg, should easily be pushing 120kg for next season

James Ryan plays for UCD now and has played in all their games this season.

Expecting Ryan to put on 12kg of muscle in a season, is hugely unrealistic. It will be a slow process, so as to not overload him and risk injury.

stupid Ireland site lying to me

I would revise that estimate downwards if he wasnt having all of September too like the internet suggested to me. And I said weight not pure muscle just to be slightly pedantic. Lock is not a position you have to worry about keeping the gains lean, and not worrying about fat gain makes gaining muscle easier. 12kg of pure muscle though would take a year of training just for that without PEDs

Similar height locks seem to be mostly c120kg except for Whitelock

[goreyguy]

Makes you wonder if provincial players always join the Sevens setup with the province's blessing or not.....

Could just be they prefer Rory, which is not hard to believe either.

Daly played 13 for the Ireland U20s, but if he's now viewed exclusively as a 12 then he isn't really in direct competition with O'Loughlin

Maybe even more reason to wonder if his Sevens commitments have knocked back his progress.

Daly hasn't played 13 since u20 level, he is viewed strictly as a 12.

[Ruckedtobits]

wouldnt be surprised if Ryan captains the A side but he needs to be and probably is spending most of this season with his face strapped into a feedbag

going by AIL lineups he hasnt played for Landsdowne yet this season so hes getting an awesome pre season for gaining weight, coupled with another good preseason next summer (no JRWC) and he'll easily be big enough for pro rugby next summer
u20s have him listed as 6'8 and 108kg, should easily be pushing 120kg for next season

Appreciate that this conversation has moved on but just to emphasise that putting bulk onto guys is now recognised, both in NFL and rugby, as the surest way to cause injuries - notably joints. England and other countries now monitoring weight gain between age 19 and 23 very much more closely and sometimes even by reference to family shape.

BTW, inclusion of James Ryan as part of Euro Squad would be to cover injury to Devin, so that we would have cover for Molony. Triggs may be experienced but ge doesn't serve as a key jumper.

[simonokeeffe]

Not sure its a fair comparison as there are massive differentials in the size and shape of NFL players amongst their own positions let alone versus rugby players

V few if any NFL guys that height and their big guys, offensive linemen, tend to be 150 or 160 kg +,
big difference too between someone who is 6'8 and 108 kg putting on 10-12kg over a 15 period month and someone putting even more on between high school and college. And those NFL guys are really dirty bulking, Im talking at worst someone like Ryan making 10-20% of their weight gain in fat

And even then thats assuming Ryan is going to be a TH lock rather than rangey 115kg LH lock

Plus every player has to find their ideal playing weight and theres often trial and error with that

[neiliog93]

It's reasonable to expect Ryan to get up to 115 kg by next season but I think 120 kg is a stretch. The Leinster S & C set-up just do not allow 'dirty bulking' (gaining fat and muscle at the same time by eating obscene quantities of food) anyway. Look at the props in the academy and first-team squad - only Mike Ross and maybe Heffernan are visibly overweight, the others are fairly lean. Jack McGrath actually trimmed down from 122kg to 118kg when in the academy.

[leinsterforever]

I'm no expert but I'd have thought around 118kg might be a good eventual target if he's going to be a tighthead lock. It would probably be best if he took two or three years to put the weight on so joints aren't put under too much pressure

[Oldschoolsocks]

wouldnt be surprised if Ryan captains the A side but he needs to be and probably is spending most of this season with his face strapped into a feedbag

going by AIL lineups he hasnt played for Landsdowne yet this season so hes getting an awesome pre season for gaining weight, coupled with another good preseason next summer (no JRWC) and he'll easily be big enough for pro rugby next summer
u20s have him listed as 6'8 and 108kg, should easily be pushing 120kg for next season

James Ryan plays for UCD now and has played in all their games this season.

Expecting Ryan to put on 12kg of muscle in a season, is hugely unrealistic. It will be a slow process, so as to not overload him and risk injury.

stupid Ireland site lying to me

I would revise that estimate downwards if he wasnt having all of September too like the internet suggested to me. And I said weight not pure muscle just to be slightly pedantic. Lock is not a position you have to worry about keeping the gains lean, and not worrying about fat gain makes gaining muscle easier. 12kg of pure muscle though would take a year of training just for that without PEDs

Similar height locks seem to be mostly c120kg except for Whitelock

Jaysus Sokky, 12kg of solid muscle in one year with only ventolin in his inhaler!!!
Dorian Yates in his prime, pumped full of HGH, tren, test and insulin would have called that a good year.

[simonokeeffe]

It's reasonable to expect Ryan to get up to 115 kg by next season but I think 120 kg is a stretch. The Leinster S & C set-up just do not allow 'dirty bulking' (gaining fat and muscle at the same time by eating obscene quantities of food) anyway. Look at the props in the academy and first-team squad - only Mike Ross and maybe Heffernan are visibly overweight, the others are fairly lean. Jack McGrath actually trimmed down from 122kg to 118kg when in the academy.

Like I said I revised my guess/target/conjecture downwards when it was pointed out to me he didnt get an extended preseason (by not playing AIL)

Basically we can all agree he probably isnt big enough this season, probably will be next season, and will probably be slightly bigger than that in the future

[matt]

Ryan has fantastic potential and in all probability will be an important player for Leinster in the future provided he is free from injury but with his tall lean physique will take 2 years to achieve S&C goals so crazy that there is so much comment seeing as title of thread is Euro Squad 16/17 not 18/19.

Every player is different and 2nd Row is particularly tough if thrown in before you are ready. Let him develop in the background knowing he is getting good coaching/advice.

[goreyguy]

Ryan has fantastic potential and in all probability will be an important player for Leinster in the future provided he is free from injury but with his tall lean physique will take 2 years to achieve S&C goals so crazy that there is so much comment seeing as title of thread is Euro Squad 16/17 not 18/19.

Every player is different and 2nd Row is particularly tough if thrown in before you are ready. Let him develop in the background knowing he is getting good coaching/advice.

Ryan will be ready next season for consistent gametime, although I expect him to make his debut this season.

[simonokeeffe]

Ryan has fantastic potential and in all probability will be an important player for Leinster in the future provided he is free from injury but with his tall lean physique will take 2 years to achieve S&C goals so crazy that there is so much comment seeing as title of thread is Euro Squad 16/17 not 18/19.

Every player is different and 2nd Row is particularly tough if thrown in before you are ready. Let him develop in the background knowing he is getting good coaching/advice.

Hey its all conjecture but he doesnt strike me as gangly like Dev or Leo. Damn Etzebeth has set the bar high

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Personally I think he's ready now.