Stuart Lancaster joining Leinster

[Dave Cahill]

The players used to say how great Declan Kidney was.

You mean the 2-time Heineken Cup winning, Grand Slam winning, IRB Coach of the Year in 2009?

My point being that between 2005 and 2009, and 2013 and now you'll have to work hard to find a player not from cork with a good word to say about him whilst for most of 2004 -2005 and 2009 - 2012 they couldn't praise him highly enough.

[Degz]

The players used to say how great Declan Kidney was.

You mean the 2-time Heineken Cup winning, Grand Slam winning, IRB Coach of the Year in 2009?

My point being that between 2005 and 2009, and 2013 and now you'll have to work hard to find a player not from cork with a good word to say about him whilst for most of 2004 -2005 and 2009 - 2012 they couldn't praise him highly enough.

Surely, you're not saying that some players might offer hollow platitudes, simply to serve their own self interests?

Shewerly??

[Laighin Break]

The players used to say how great Declan Kidney was.

You mean the 2-time Heineken Cup winning, Grand Slam winning, IRB Coach of the Year in 2009?

My point being that between 2005 and 2009, and 2013 and now you'll have to work hard to find a player not from cork with a good word to say about him whilst for most of 2004 -2005 and 2009 - 2012 they couldn't praise him highly enough.

Except that maybe players felt that had to go out and defend the couch. Maybe they actually had to. But I doubt they have to go out and say how much the Seven's Circuit helped them out. I'd be more inclined to think that that's them actually sharing their opinion.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Playing 7s never hurt Lawrence Dallaglio's career, plus if any of the England forward eight had played 7s they would have had the cop on to run through "tackle only" rucks


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[paddyor]

Except that maybe players felt that had to go out and defend the couch. Maybe they actually had to. But I doubt they have to go out and say how much the Seven's Circuit helped them out. I'd be more inclined to think that that's them actually sharing their opinion.

How often have you publicly slated your job or the job of a "co-worker"? Not just to family and friends.

[Leoslovechild]

Playing 7s never hurt Lawrence Dallaglio's career, plus if any of the England forward eight had played 7s they would have had the cop on to run through "tackle only" rucks


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Nor the 37 New Zealanders who went on to play for the All Blacks

[Dave Cahill]

Playing 7s never hurt Lawrence Dallaglio's career, plus if any of the England forward eight had played 7s they would have had the cop on to run through "tackle only" rucks


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Nor the 37 New Zealanders who went on to play for the All Blacks

Considering how many New Zealanders play 7s, thats a dreadful conversion ratio.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Playing 7s never hurt Lawrence Dallaglio's career, plus if any of the England forward eight had played 7s they would have had the cop on to run through "tackle only" rucks


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Nor the 37 New Zealanders who went on to play for the All Blacks

Considering how many New Zealanders play 7s, thats a dreadful conversion ratio.

Dave, trying to work out your argument here. Is it that 7s does not give value for money because it is not an accurate analogue for the 15 a side game and it's taking Euros from the 15 a side game?

Is your answer to just drop 7s from our curriculum(?) or to reduce its funding and priority in the grand scheme of Irish rugby.

Myself as a portly ex loosehead never got to showcase my true talents in the seven a side game, but I do think it should have a place in Irish rugby - but should this be at an elite or a pastime
Level or someplace in between?

[Dave Cahill]

There are a couple of strands to my issues around 7s.

It doesn't give value for money because in essence a Rugby Union is spending money on a sport that is not longer a truncated form of Rugby Union. The game has become a sport of its own, like Rugby League. Indeed Rugby League is actually now closer to Rugby Union than Sevens is.

It doesn't give value for money because although there are some similarities between the skills of sevens and a small subset of the skills in rugby union that on first appearance look like they might benefit a small subset of the players, the games have evolved to an extent where the execution of those skills in sevens is not up a standard required in rugby union due to the differences between the sports. Essentially it dis-improves players.

Once trumpeted as a development pathway for non-traditional rugby countries by World Rugby, it has in fact halted development of Rugby Union in virtually every country where sevens has taken a grip, for example Kenya (and most of non-SA sphere of influence Africa), the Iberian penninsula, and even traditional rugby countries like Fiji and Samoa have seen the effects.



It has become a shibboleth in Ireland that we must do more with sevens, we must be more committed to sevens, sevens helps develop players, sevens will broaden the player pool. In reality, its doesn't and it won't. Not for Rugby Union at least.

[Ruckedtobits]

Ireland's participation in Mens Sevens is a total subterfuge to avoid allegation by World Rugby that we are not supportive of a core World Rugby policy initiative, i.e. the establishment of Sevens as an Olympic team sport, thus aiding propagation of the sport across the world. This has been a 20-year objective for World Rugby. Any country seeking to have World Rugby approval as a venue for Major Event, MUST demonstrate support for all sore objectives.

Support for Womens Sevens is a totally different strategy and is really trying to use Rugby Sevens, the Olympic Team Sport, as the Trojan Horse into Irish Womens Sports, particularly team, field, sports.

Prior to introduction of Sevens participation for Women, pace of crossover from other sports was very slow and there was no way to fast-track to international level any "elite" players from other codes. As we have seen, Sevens facilitares that fast-tracking and that provides a lot of headlines, opportunities and examples to show to others.

In many ways, I am with Dave in his views about how different Sevens and 15's have become. Where I disagree is in the pace at which Sevens can accelerate individual skills development. In this I would cite the development of both Adam Byrne and Tom Daly through Sevens.

Its only my opinion. so I'm not interested in debating it, but I certainly believe that both benefitted considerably from their time with Sevens.

IMO, continue the experiment but never let Sevens selection interfere with Representative selection, age-grade or otherwise.

[Peg Leg]

Was there also the possibility that we'd have lost Daly entirely if it weren't for 7's? Heard he was at a proffessional crossroads before joining the 7's circus.

[leinsterforever]

There are a couple of strands to my issues around 7s.

It doesn't give value for money because in essence a Rugby Union is spending money on a sport that is not longer a truncated form of Rugby Union. The game has become a sport of its own, like Rugby League. Indeed Rugby League is actually now closer to Rugby Union than Sevens is.

It doesn't give value for money because although there are some similarities between the skills of sevens and a small subset of the skills in rugby union that on first appearance look like they might benefit a small subset of the players, the games have evolved to an extent where the execution of those skills in sevens is not up a standard required in rugby union due to the differences between the sports. Essentially it dis-improves players.

Once trumpeted as a development pathway for non-traditional rugby countries by World Rugby, it has in fact halted development of Rugby Union in virtually every country where sevens has taken a grip, for example Kenya (and most of non-SA sphere of influence Africa), the Iberian penninsula, and even traditional rugby countries like Fiji and Samoa have seen the effects.



It has become a shibboleth in Ireland that we must do more with sevens, we must be more committed to sevens, sevens helps develop players, sevens will broaden the player pool. In reality, its doesn't and it won't. Not for Rugby Union at least.

Has 7s really hurt Kenya in 15s? Weren't they only a game or two away from qualifying for the 2015 World Cup?

[hugonaut]

Ireland's participation in Mens Sevens is a total subterfuge to avoid allegation by World Rugby that we are not supportive of a core World Rugby policy initiative, i.e. the establishment of Sevens as an Olympic team sport, thus aiding propagation of the sport across the world. This has been a 20-year objective for World Rugby. Any country seeking to have World Rugby approval as a venue for Major Event, MUST demonstrate support for all sore objectives.

Support for Womens Sevens is a totally different strategy and is really trying to use Rugby Sevens, the Olympic Team Sport, as the Trojan Horse into Irish Womens Sports, particularly team, field, sports.

Prior to introduction of Sevens participation for Women, pace of crossover from other sports was very slow and there was no way to fast-track to international level any "elite" players from other codes. As we have seen, Sevens facilitares that fast-tracking and that provides a lot of headlines, opportunities and examples to show to others.

In many ways, I am with Dave in his views about how different Sevens and 15's have become. Where I disagree is in the pace at which Sevens can accelerate individual skills development. In this I would cite the development of both Adam Byrne and Tom Daly through Sevens.

Its only my opinion. so I'm not interested in debating it, but I certainly believe that both benefitted considerably from their time with Sevens.

IMO, continue the experiment but never let Sevens selection interfere with Representative selection, age-grade or otherwise.

Hear hear.

[Oldschool]

Now that the Oscars are sorted for another year, anyone know where we're at with Burt and his next blockbuster?
Has his new script been sorted and signed off on yet.

[Laighin Break]

Now that the Oscars are sorted for another year, anyone know where we're at with Burt and his next blockbuster?
Has his new script been sorted and signed off on yet.

Looks like 'Hostiles' will be out this year

[BlueWheels]

With news breaking that Munster's Rassie Erasmus has admitted that he has held “formal and informal” talks with the powers that be in South Africa, I hope we've sorted out the extension to Bomber's contract and it's all signed up ........ Hate for him to head down the M7

[johng]

If Stewart L decides to go south at the end of the 2 year contract he is about to sign with us I will be disappointed. But seeing as that coincides with the End of Rassie's contract which he just referred to honouring then.......

[BlueWheels]

I was more worried about if RE goes now, that Lancaster hasn't actually signed as yet so we could be gazumped!!

[deco]

I was more worried about if RE goes now, that Lancaster hasn't actually signed as yet so we could be gazumped!!

, You've got to be Kiddin' , Bomber is no Judas

[simonokeeffe]

I was more worried about if RE goes now, that Lancaster hasn't actually signed as yet so we could be gazumped!!

, You've got to be Kiddin' , Bomber is no Judas

has to be easier to fly Leeds-Bradford to Dublin than Shannon