Stuart Lancaster joining Leinster

[Dave Cahill]

For instance the 7s players talked about how it really improved them and some got provincial contracts off the back of those improvements. That nurturing of talent isn't as obvious to the average fan as a signing is. It will pay dividends down the line though.

Sevens rugby has been of no benefit to rugby in Ireland. None. It is, at best, mildly detrimental.

[dropkick]

For instance the 7s players talked about how it really improved them and some got provincial contracts off the back of those improvements. That nurturing of talent isn't as obvious to the average fan as a signing is. It will pay dividends down the line though.

Sevens rugby has been of no benefit to rugby in Ireland. None. It is, at best, mildly detrimental.

It's benefited the players because they said so themselves.

[Dave Cahill]

For instance the 7s players talked about how it really improved them and some got provincial contracts off the back of those improvements. That nurturing of talent isn't as obvious to the average fan as a signing is. It will pay dividends down the line though.

Sevens rugby has been of no benefit to rugby in Ireland. None. It is, at best, mildly detrimental.

It's benefited the players because they said so themselves.

So what? Lots of people say lots of things about lots of stuff - its not all gospel

On the other hand, by watching actual rugby, one can see with ones own eyes the absolutely no effect whatsoever sevens rugby has had on the game here. If one were to be charitable about it, it gives lads who are a distance from the team something to do until they get their real chance. The downside of that is of course that the chance could come whilst they were playing chasing in the caucasus and someone else gets the opportunity. Or they could get injured. Or they could find themselves in their mid-20s and the lowest form of Rugby-life - the 'Sevens specialist', wearing stupid suits at godawful o'clock on sky sports red button 22 reporting on a game of tig from summer bay

[wixfjord]

Lovely quote from Adam Byrne yesterday:
“To be honest I just love playing with the team. Every time we go out we have a mindset to go out and attack teams and score tries...I think the backline has been working really well this season.”

Definitely a large slice of Stu in that. I think the egoless nature of Leo, Girve and Stu is a huge positive and none of them get enough credit for it. Leo welcomed in a former England coach to his coaching team, Lancaster joined a club/provincial side as a non head coach and Girve saw an international coach come in and overlap with his role somewhat, yet, on pitch at least, all we've seen has been positive.

[dropkick]

Sevens rugby has been of no benefit to rugby in Ireland. None. It is, at best, mildly detrimental.

It's benefited the players because they said so themselves.

So what? Lots of people say lots of things about lots of stuff - its not all gospel

On the other hand, by watching actual rugby, one can see with ones own eyes the absolutely no effect whatsoever sevens rugby has had on the game here. If one were to be charitable about it, it gives lads who are a distance from the team something to do until they get their real chance. The downside of that is of course that the chance could come whilst they were playing chasing in the caucasus and someone else gets the opportunity. Or they could get injured. Or they could find themselves in their mid-20s and the lowest form of Rugby-life - the 'Sevens specialist', wearing stupid suits at godawful o'clock on sky sports red button 22 reporting on a game of tig from summer bay

I'm not that interested in 7s myself but I can see the way it tests players skills and fitness etc. After spending a year playing 7s many of the players look more comfortable with ball in hand.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

[Oldschool]

So what? Lots of people say lots of things about lots of stuff - its not all gospel

On the other hand, by watching actual rugby, one can see with ones own eyes the absolutely no effect whatsoever sevens rugby has had on the game here. If one were to be charitable about it, it gives lads who are a distance from the team something to do until they get their real chance. The downside of that is of course that the chance could come whilst they were playing chasing in the caucasus and someone else gets the opportunity. Or they could get injured. Or they could find themselves in their mid-20s and the lowest form of Rugby-life - the 'Sevens specialist', wearing stupid suits at godawful o'clock on sky sports red button 22 reporting on a game of tig from summer bay

And there you have it - the gospel

[Dave Cahill]

I'm not that interested in 7s myself but I can see the way it tests players skills and fitness etc. After spending a year playing 7s many of the players look more comfortable with ball in hand.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

You see, thats all true but I have two issues with it - firstly, it doesn't test players skills and fitness, it tests a small subset of some players skills and the type of fitness required for sevens is entirely different than for 15s and secondly there is a lot more to the game than running with the ball in hand and sevens does nothing for those elements of the game.

The biggest playing crisis in Irish rugby over the last decade was our complete dependence on one player in the Tighthead prop position, one of the most important positions on the field, and sevens does absolutely nothing bring through tight head (or any head) props.

In fact, in all the key positions, props, eighthman, both halfs, full back, sevens is of strictly limited use in developing players, the up and down simplicity of the game mitigates developing the kind of tactical appreciation the 15 a side version of the game requires and in these positions particularly.

I'm of the belief that Rugby Sevens has developed and evolved to a point where it is no longer Rugby Union - its a sport of its own now, like Rugby League - and as such it should be hived off to its own governing body.

[dropkick]

I'm not that interested in 7s myself but I can see the way it tests players skills and fitness etc. After spending a year playing 7s many of the players look more comfortable with ball in hand.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

You see, thats all true but I have two issues with it - firstly, it doesn't test players skills and fitness, it tests a small subset of some players skills and the type of fitness required for sevens is entirely different than for 15s and secondly there is a lot more to the game than running with the ball in hand and sevens does nothing for those elements of the game.

The biggest playing crisis in Irish rugby over the last decade was our complete dependence on one player in the Tighthead prop position, one of the most important positions on the field, and sevens does absolutely nothing bring through tight head (or any head) props.

In fact, in all the key positions, props, eighthman, both halfs, full back, sevens is of strictly limited use in developing players, the up and down simplicity of the game mitigates developing the kind of tactical appreciation the 15 a side version of the game requires and in these positions particularly.

I'm of the belief that Rugby Sevens has developed and evolved to a point where it is no longer Rugby Union - its a sport of its own now, like Rugby League - and as such it should be hived off to its own governing body.

I can only go on what the players say. They've all been positive about it. It doesn't help potential tightheads but it does put pressure on players to have solid basics like passing and it helps with things like offloading etc.

Speaking of tightheads, Georgia have so many tightheads because they benefit from other popular sports in Georgia like wrestling. That's got nothing to do with rugby but still benefits rugby. 7s is different to 15s but there are still areas in 7s rugby that benefit 15s.

It can't have done much harm to ROL and Adam Byrne to play 7s.

[the spoofer]

We shouldn't be spending a small fortune on developing players who can only play wing. The money would be better invested in improving coaching in clubs and non traditional schools, a huge relatively untapped market.

There is work afoot on this with plans that coaches who do the old Level 1 course will have to do continuous development. This can only be positive.

[Laighin Break]

Yeah I think I'll go with what the players themselves say rather than DC.
Of course sevens is of limited use to how it develops players, and that's why props etc don't take part it in. It's not unusual for forwards and backs to do different things at training.

[Dave Cahill]

The players used to say how great Declan Kidney was.

[goreyguy]

The players used to say how great Declan Kidney was.

and MOC.

[Dave Cahill]

The players used to say how great Declan Kidney was.

and MOC.

Yep, you couldn't move for encomiums from most of the current squad.

Which is why I take everything that a player says with a massive grain of salt. I like a lot of the ones I've met, admire them all immensely, but I wouldn't believe a word out of any of them until I saw who was signing the cheque

[riocard911]

The players used to say how great Declan Kidney was.

and MOC.

Yep, you couldn't move for encomiums from most of the current squad.

Which is why I take everything that a player says with a massive grain of salt. I like a lot of the ones I've met, admire them all immensely, but I wouldn't believe a word out of any of them until I saw who was signing the cheque

Éist! Éist!!!

[leinsterforever]

For instance the 7s players talked about how it really improved them and some got provincial contracts off the back of those improvements. That nurturing of talent isn't as obvious to the average fan as a signing is. It will pay dividends down the line though.

Sevens rugby has been of no benefit to rugby in Ireland. None. It is, at best, mildly detrimental.

I forget where I heard it, but somebody high up said that a study found that the number of times a player had to execute some basic technical elements of the game was much higher in 7s. Players have to be right on the money when it comes to passing and cleaning out rucks.

Sevens can be of great use in developing a three-quarter's ability to run the right line and execute the right pass at the right time. The players who have been involved in 7s also appear to be slicker when it comes to trying to beat a man. They just look more comfortable in possession.

I'm pleased when I hear of Leinster backs going off to focus on 7s for a while, because I think it'll make them more potent attacking players in the long run

Edit: here's the article and quote I was thinking of:

Sevens is a key component of Nucifora’s strategy of increasing Irish rugby’s focus on the basis skills of the game too.

The Australian cites the presentation by IRFU director of sevens rugby Anthony Eddy at last month’s seminar in the Aviva Stadium, during which the Australian provided an interesting case study on how sevens rugby truly tests the core skills.

The analysis compared the number of involvements an U18 player had that drew on the core skills of the game during a 15-a-side inter-provincial U18 tie, and in a sevens game at the Rugby Europe U18 Sevens Championship, which Ireland won.

The number of times the player’s core skills were involved “was significantly greater in the game of sevens than it was in the game of 15s.”

“That can’t be ignored as a way of developing our players and that’s what the players who are having a go at sevens are finding,” says Nucifora.

“They’re getting exposed more often to the decision-making and execution of the core skills of the game by playing sevens. It’s just improving them as footballers.

http://www.the42.ie/david-nucifora-irfu ... 9-Nov2016/

[Dave Cahill]

I don't see those benefits at all - how much sevens did RingShaw play, or Johnny Sexton? Bugger all. The only thing sevens has done for Leinster three quarters is get them injured and delay their appearances. These weren't lads who were cr@p at Rugby after all- Adam Byrne made his debut for Leinster as an zygote, Rory O'Loughlin was well flagged as a top schools prospect and first played for Leinster A back in 2012!

[leinsterforever]

I don't see those benefits at all - how much sevens did RingShaw play, or Johnny Sexton? Bugger all. The only thing sevens has done for Leinster three quarters is get them injured and delay their appearances. These weren't lads who were cr@p at Rugby after all- Adam Byrne made his debut for Leinster as an zygote, Rory O'Loughlin was well flagged as a top schools prospect and first played for Leinster A back in 2012!

Players like Ringrose being good and not having played 7s doesn't mean that 7s can't be beneficial in developing a player's game. It's hard to say conclusively one way or the other because we can't compare players to what they would have been like if they hadn't played 7s, but my suspicion is that exposure to the shortened version of the game has made Barry Daly, Tom Daly, Adam Byrne and Rory O'Loughlin sharper, more rounded attackers

[paddyor]

For instance the 7s players talked about how it really improved them and some got provincial contracts off the back of those improvements. That nurturing of talent isn't as obvious to the average fan as a signing is. It will pay dividends down the line though.

Sevens rugby has been of no benefit to rugby in Ireland. None. It is, at best, mildly detrimental.

I forget where I heard it, but somebody high up said that a study found that the number of times a player had to execute some basic technical elements of the game was much higher in 7s. Players have to be right on the money when it comes to passing and cleaning out rucks.

Sevens can be of great use in developing a three-quarter's ability to run the right line and execute the right pass at the right time. The players who have been involved in 7s also appear to be slicker when it comes to trying to beat a man. They just look more comfortable in possession.

I'm pleased when I hear of Leinster backs going off to focus on 7s for a while, because I think it'll make them more potent attacking players in the long run

Only ever watched some of it in the Olympics. Didn't think much of some of the passing especially given how much space they seemed to have. It'd be harder in 15s IMO. Not sure there's a lot to be gained in 15s from running lines against such a limited defense either.

I'd say we'll drop our interest in the sport or significantly reduce it once if the RWC 2023 host is not us, otherwise we'll keep it up until after that.

[Laighin Break]

The players used to say how great Declan Kidney was.

You mean the 2-time Heineken Cup winning, Grand Slam winning, IRB Coach of the Year in 2009?

[Grumpy Old Man]

The players used to say how great Declan Kidney was.

You mean the 2-time Heineken Cup winning, Grand Slam winning, IRB Coach of the Year in 2009?