Leinster v Munster Saturday 2.05 Sky/TG4

[hugonaut]

Thought our set piece looked strong too (Nagle was good IMO), certainly had more confidence in it than recent weeks. With both that and our defence looking good and with a few big wins under our belts in recent weeks I think we're in great shape going into Europe.

If you view Nagle as a direct replacement for Tom Denton – and they're the same age and play the same position, so I think it's a very reasonable comparison – he is certainly an upgrade. I don't think Denton convinced many [if any!] Leinster fans that he was ever going to be a capable player at the higher end of the league and in Europe, and he had a full four seasons here to make that case. I wouldn't have picked Nagle to start yesterday's match, but I thought he did pretty well. It's only his third start in two and a half years, so I think it's reasonable to make allowances and to suggest that that isn't the limit of his capabilities.

[neiliog93]

Thought our set piece looked strong too (Nagle was good IMO), certainly had more confidence in it than recent weeks. With both that and our defence looking good and with a few big wins under our belts in recent weeks I think we're in great shape going into Europe.

If you view Nagle as a direct replacement for Tom Denton – and they're the same age and play the same position, so I think it's a very reasonable comparison – he is certainly an upgrade. I don't think Denton convinced many [if any!] Leinster fans that he was ever going to be a capable player at the higher end of the league and in Europe, and he had a full four seasons here to make that case. I wouldn't have picked Nagle to start yesterday's match, but I thought he did pretty well. It's only his third start in two and a half years, so I think it's reasonable to make allowances and to suggest that that isn't the limit of his capabilities.

+1. Nagle easily an improvement on Denton in both ability and potential.

[COYBIB]

Thought Nagle was pretty anonymous, maybe I missed most of the grunt work he got through, but definitely an upgrade on Denton. There's been a decent clear out of the squad, there's not many players I'd have issue with seeing starting a league game. A couple who I wish would play more in fact.

The pack has never been a major area of concern when it comes to producing players, maybe with the exception of second row, but with Kearney, Molony and Nagle there to partner Toner and Ryan coming through the academy, we look decently stocked in the medium term at least.

Long term backline options coming along nicely in the 9/10/12/13 axis

9. McGrath (23) / Park (24)
10. Carbery (20) / Byrne (21)
12. Henshaw (23) / Reid (26)
13. Ringrose (21) / O'Loughlin (22)

Back three still frsutraitingly bare.

[simonokeeffe]

Always a fuzzy feeling beating Munster but tempered by how poor they were and the fact we left a try bonus behind. Clearly Ringrose butchered his (in an otherwise great game) but Isa did too through lack of pace (in an otherwise outstanding game).
Main negative for me was maul defence, which really was poor, even if Munster couldn't really capitalise, other teams will.
O'Loughlin looked totally out of place, which is not surprising. I just hope the lesson is learned and he is not shoe-horned out of position into sides in big games. Shoe-horn him against Zebre if you really want to convert him and otherwise play him in position.

It's funny to see the wildly divergent opinions on McGrath remain. I saw a lot of unnecessary Stringeresque flapping about at rucks and a number of inaccurate unStringeresque passes from deck. On the flip side, he does look comfortable and confident and to be a good decision-maker. The flapping about can be coached out of him tomorrow...hopefully, the erratic passing can and will be addressed as a matter of urgency. He's clearly a good player. Gibson-Park to start for me in Europe based on what I've seen of both.

Isa is what 35 so expecting him to outsprint a emm sprinter like Zebo is a bit harsh IMO

I'm not blaming him for his lack of pace! It was a try that should have been scored by Leinster though. Zebo had a decent game as well though to be fair to the turnips.

No worries
Ah think there was a (legal) jersey grab in the tackle that just bought defence enough time

[paddyor]

I'm not too worried with McGrath being a bit slower around the breakdown. He seems to have slowed down but his pass has improved. He had a number of poor cameos and "blips" in MOCs last season. I remember him coming on and tearing up to the breakdown to knock it on when we were chasing the game (vs Connacht in the sportsground). Some of his wayward passing also put Goperth under a lot of pressure (Vs Treviso in Treviso lead to a charge down). Hopefully as his passing improves his confidence to execute that bit faster will increase. IMO this is what he needed to do 2 seasons ago. if he needs to an angry seagull dance at every other ruck to set himself then that's okay as long as keeps improving. In short, I think he'll be a lot faster by the end of the season.

[paddyor]

I've been a critic of Luke M, but he was my MOTM yesterday, does such an amount of work, great box kicker and his pass is a lot better. JGP definitely adds more speed, but I think for a French side in Europe i'd go for Luke.

Thought Ringer and Henshaw partnership looked great. Henshaw is a tank and Ringrose' feet are something to behold.
ROL looked a little out of place, but will learn from that. I'd have ZK in next week.

Front 5 did their jobs, didn't see Nagle do too much mind, although scrum was solid enough.

Thought Jordi selection was shown up as wrong. He played well, but played as a 6 for me, and not enough turnover pressure when he's at 7. This is something that will kill us further down the line.

A word now for James Cronin - to look down at a prone player who can't protect himself and continue to stamp on or near his face is not just dirty, it's scumbag level dirty. Hope he gets a long ban for that. If it were one of our lads I'd be saying the same.

No one seemed to go in much for the ball. There weren't many turnovers won or penos. Ref gave teams plenty of time to clearout.

[COYBIB]

I'm not too worried with McGrath being a bit slower around the breakdown. He seems to have slowed down but his pass has improved. He had a number of poor cameos and "blips" in MOCs last season. I remember him coming on and tearing up to the breakdown to knock it on when we were chasing the game (vs Connacht in the sportsground). Some of his wayward passing also put Goperth under a lot of pressure (Vs Treviso in Treviso lead to a charge down). Hopefully as his passing improves his confidence to execute that bit faster will increase. IMO this is what he needed to do 2 seasons ago. if he needs to an angry seagull dance at every other ruck to set himself then that's okay as long as keeps improving. In short, I think he'll be a lot faster by the end of the season.

I agree, he is improving rapidly and it's criminal his development wasn't prioritised under MOC (in tandum with Cooney to give us two very good long term options, but happy enough with Park instead), but the milking of Boss and Reddan unfortunately has him a year or two behind where he could / should be.

The flapping at rucks drives me absolutely crazy though, dig it out and shift it on, he tries to get a penalty at every ruck, but it slows down our ball so much and refs don't fall for it. Just wasting his, and the backlines time, which is ironic given how crisp his delivery has become. Very good prospect though, a full season should see him come on leaps and bounds. Conor Murray had a lot more annoying and bad attributes when he broke through to Munster (and with about 17 minutes of professional rugby under his belt, became first choice for uncle deccies Ireland too), it took a couple of seasons to iron out, but he came good. Similar age profile of progression too, all be it very different players.

[wixfjord]

I've been a critic of Luke M, but he was my MOTM yesterday, does such an amount of work, great box kicker and his pass is a lot better. JGP definitely adds more speed, but I think for a French side in Europe i'd go for Luke.

Thought Ringer and Henshaw partnership looked great. Henshaw is a tank and Ringrose' feet are something to behold.
ROL looked a little out of place, but will learn from that. I'd have ZK in next week.

Front 5 did their jobs, didn't see Nagle do too much mind, although scrum was solid enough.

Thought Jordi selection was shown up as wrong. He played well, but played as a 6 for me, and not enough turnover pressure when he's at 7. This is something that will kill us further down the line.

A word now for James Cronin - to look down at a prone player who can't protect himself and continue to stamp on or near his face is not just dirty, it's scumbag level dirty. Hope he gets a long ban for that. If it were one of our lads I'd be saying the same.

No one seemed to go in much for the ball. There weren't many turnovers won or penos. Ref gave teams plenty of time to clearout.

True, and Munster were doing their usual thing of flopping like dolphins and pushing way past the ruck, so it was tough, but it's also a symptom of Jordi at 7 I think. His ground game isn't good enough for me.

[wixfjord]

Was anyone else pleasantly surprised at our attacking play yesterday? Some lovely shape to the attack that's been missing for the last few seasons, a lot of out the back passing and uses of grubber kicks to attack well. Great to see, looks like Lancaster is certainly helping in that regard.

[lotmc]

I'm not too worried with McGrath being a bit slower around the breakdown. He seems to have slowed down but his pass has improved. He had a number of poor cameos and "blips" in MOCs last season. I remember him coming on and tearing up to the breakdown to knock it on when we were chasing the game (vs Connacht in the sportsground). Some of his wayward passing also put Goperth under a lot of pressure (Vs Treviso in Treviso lead to a charge down). Hopefully as his passing improves his confidence to execute that bit faster will increase. IMO this is what he needed to do 2 seasons ago. if he needs to an angry seagull dance at every other ruck to set himself then that's okay as long as keeps improving. In short, I think he'll be a lot faster by the end of the season.

I agree, he is improving rapidly and it's criminal his development wasn't prioritised under MOC (in tandum with Cooney to give us two very good long term options, but happy enough with Park instead), but the milking of Boss and Reddan unfortunately has him a year or two behind where he could / should be.

The flapping at rucks drives me absolutely crazy though, dig it out and shift it on, he tries to get a penalty at every ruck, but it slows down our ball so much and refs don't fall for it. Just wasting his, and the backlines time, which is ironic given how crisp his delivery has become. Very good prospect though, a full season should see him come on leaps and bounds. Conor Murray had a lot more annoying and bad attributes when he broke through to Munster (and with about 17 minutes of professional rugby under his belt, became first choice for uncle deccies Ireland too), it took a couple of seasons to iron out, but he came good. Similar age profile of progression too, all be it very different players.

Luke had a super game, but still can improve.. I was blaming him for Munster's first try - he delayed at the back of a ruck and then passed to Toner, but the pass was a few feet over Toner's head. Toner had to jump to collect it, and lost time and body position for the next ruck. We were pinged for trying to salvage that ruck, which led to the penalty to the corner, and the Munster try. Not entirely Luke's fault, and uncharacteristic of his game yesterday. He will learn from it.

[Ruckedtobits]

We certainly played a couple of new back moves from scrums in the first half and seemed to break the gain line but without the capacity to score from 40m plus out from the line. But I'm convinced that our best pattern is that employed against Ospreys where we were high tempo, strong clearout and passes two or three out to players running straight or even out to in against a flat defensive line. Better still if we have added astute grubber kicks from mid-field, as yesterday, which allow Ringrose and Isa to come through at pace.

Secure our scrum ball, be efficient at line-out time and clear out the breakdowns and we can beat Castres well at home.

[simonokeeffe]

Just watched the recording of it

Toner and ROL missed tackles for fun, Jordi made them for fun
Do see what people mean about Luke flapping for penalties rather than speeding the attack up, but he puts the ball in front of the receiver better than JGP
Tracey and Furlong (and Healy) were immense

and for I told ya sos, a rusty Henshaw was one of the best players on the pitch

[riocard911]

Just watched the recording of it

Toner and ROL missed tackles for fun, Jordi made them for fun
Do see what people mean about Luke flapping for penalties rather than speeding the attack up, but he puts the ball in front of the receiver better than JGP
Tracey and Furlong (and Healy) were immense

and for I told ya sos, a rusty Henshaw was one of the best players on the pitch

+ 1. Just after rewatching. Robbie was massive. The team looks very well coached. Luke's passing was good - the pass for to Johnny - and on to Rob for Isa's try was excellent!!

[enby]

interesting to see the dressing room at half-time, Leo just standing there with his iPad while Lancaster gave the talk with all of the players giving him their full attention.

[riocard911]

interesting to see the dressing room at half-time, Leo just standing there with his iPad while Lancaster gave the talk with all of the players giving him their full attention.

Not just that. As far as I could tell there was nobody running around; every single player was sitting in place, while Lancaster was talking.

[simonokeeffe]

interesting to see the dressing room at half-time, Leo just standing there with his iPad while Lancaster gave the talk with all of the players giving him their full attention.

Not just that. As far as I could tell there was nobody running around; every single player was sitting in place, while Lancaster was talking.

was that not the case with Leo talking before?
and now is Leo somehow forwards coach and DOR and IRFU liason but Lancaster is head coach?

couple of tackle stats Murphy, Sexton, Henshaw, Kearney, ALL the props didnt miss any tackles officially, leavy the only sub at all to miss a tackle

Henshaw 11 & 0
Ruddock 15 & 1
Furlong 10 & 0

[johng]

Talking of which, as the song nearly went: Earl's a winger. End of.

Jaysis I hate myself for remembering this....

[LeRouxIsPHat]

and for I told ya sos, a rusty Henshaw was one of the best players on the pitch

Deserved!

Yeah I thought he was excellent. Defence was brilliant and he carried very strongly. No big breaks and he held on to the ball a few times when he could have let it go, but wouldn't say he was rusty like I'd predicted. Really impressive stuff.

[stuwilson]

Anyone notice JGP getting studs in the face by Cronin bottom of the ruck on 73 mins 12/14 secs? Looked fairly deliberate!

[cormac]

Anyone notice JGP getting studs in the face by Cronin bottom of the ruck on 73 mins 12/14 secs? Looked fairly deliberate!

Yes, been all over the internet. He should be getting a citing today and a ban later in the week.