Montpellier v Leinster - Sunday 14.00 CET/13.00 Irish time

[Dave Cahill]

Mais non, il a dit la verite. Bon mots monsieur

Their girlfriends are what?

[curates_egg]

On a commencé avec deux joueurs blessés, on vous a presente deux essaies sur un plateau et l'arbitre n'a regardé qu'une équipe...mais même avec tout ça, et le fait que vous étiez à domicile dans des parfaites conditions pour votre lourde équipe, vous n'étiez pas trop convaincant. Franchement je crois que vous pouvez aussi être contente avec vos 4 points. Évidemment, vous auriez pu marqué 5, mais vous n'auriez pas mérité à mon avis. De l'autre coté, vu le bordel des premieres 60 minutes, nous sommes aussi contentes avec notre point. Un résultat juste.

On verra bien à Dublin en janvier.

+1! What he said!
(As long as it isn't rude)...

He said they were fat.

I've a long history of insulting opposition fans. I'm hardly going to change now.
They are fat though. Their winger weighed more than our entire pack (I think).

[Lar]

I know we have discussed what a poor decision it was by Pearce not only to penalise Rob K but to sin bin him also. There was simply nothing Kearney could have done in that situation. He stood his ground and if anything turned his shoulder to the kicker to avoid injury to himself. But it hasn't been highlighted that Pearce not only got the decision seriously wrong he actually at one point considered awarding a penalty try FFS. Thankfully we spared that particular injustice.

That was blatantly the worst decision he made on Sunday but it wasn't isolated. I hasten to add that I am not saying he wasn't biased. He made bad decisions against Montpellier too (although my blue tinted glasses made me feel he made more against us than for us).

I believe there are referee's assessors at the game. Does anyone know how this works in practice? I accept that refereeing is a hard and generally thankless job and I accept that mistakes will honestly be made but when a referee who has consulted a TMO and makes that decision after reflection and review of the video evidence and not just in the heat of the moment, surely there has to come a time when someone somewhere says that he simply isn't up to officiating at this level.

[Grumpy Old Man]

I believe there are referee's assessors at the game. Does anyone know how this works in practice? I accept that refereeing is a hard and generally thankless job and I accept that mistakes will honestly be made but when a referee who has consulted a TMO and makes that decision after reflection and review of the video evidence and not just in the heat of the moment, surely there has to come a time when someone somewhere says that he simply isn't up to officiating at this level.

What concerns me is that twice this season we have seen an appalling decision after the ref has used the TMO. Ringroses knock on (when he blocked down a kick) and Kearney on Sunday, when he was binned because someone ran into him! Are the TMOs under instruction not to overrule the ref or is it just a case of incompetence?

[leinsterforever]

Kearney's got done for taking out a chaser a few times now. Obviously it was a bad call this time but I think he needs to look at himself as well. It looked to me as if his only thought was to block the chaser (within the laws of the game). What I think he should have done is block while looking to chase back as well. Then the optics of his actions would look more positive/less negative

[Alex_MHR34]

Hi Alex, I agree we were fortunate not to ship a bonus point try, and also to get one.

That said we do know how to take on big French packs like Montpellier, and in general it doesn't involve selecting our biggest ugliest pack and going toe to toe but rather making them run. The weather you mentioned had a big part in the selection, many feel Irish management may have had a part too, and whatever was the cause there were risks taken on injured players which didn't pay off. Plus we found Nadolo difficult to play.

That said all three tries were, to some extent, gifts from us. The video analysis will be harsh on some issues. Outside of that we defended really well (as did Montpellier when we were banging on the line at the end), and we got the try at the end because we had a bench that made the team more suitable to play a big pack like Mont I think.

But back to the first line above: it seems obvious that people here are happy with an away point and keeping you to 4 so I can understand if in Montpellier this is viewed as a frustrating result given the play.

I totally agree with your post.
In my opinion, it was not the best Leinster team I've seen on the fied this sunday. If Leinster played at his real level, the result might not be the same.

[wixfjord]

Just watching last few mins again. Jaysus Leavy made some impact. Three huge carries in the move for the try alone. All of JGP, Ringrose, Carbery and Leavy were crucial to that last passage. Doing that in the last few mins of a European game in France will definitely stand to them.
Last year, Sexton questioned the mentality in the environment, I think the young guys in particular seem to have really stepped that up this year.
https://youtu.be/26a87DbBr1M?t=7m50s

[simonokeeffe]

Kearney's got done for taking out a chaser a few times now. Obviously it was a bad call this time but I think he needs to look at himself as well. It looked to me as if his only thought was to block the chaser (within the laws of the game). What I think he should have done is block while looking to chase back as well. Then the optics of his actions would look more positive/less negative

spot on

young inexperienced ref in an away game its asking for trouble

[Fan with smartphone]

Kearney's got done for taking out a chaser a few times now. Obviously it was a bad call this time but I think he needs to look at himself as well. It looked to me as if his only thought was to block the chaser (within the laws of the game). What I think he should have done is block while looking to chase back as well. Then the optics of his actions would look more positive/less negative

spot on

young inexperienced ref in an away game its asking for trouble

It's something Leinster are trying to move away from I think. The MOC years were negative vibes maaan. There's no doubt in my mind Kearney is thinking I can stop this guy legally here, but that mindset of just trying to stop the other guy and not making a positive play on the ball yourself is always going to put you in potential penalty trouble. Having said that, in this instance he did make some backward movement and he is a child of the universe no less than the trees and stars. He has a right to be somewhere. It's a very harsh penalty.

[Gearzbox2]

Tracey looks a stone short of being able to compete at the highest level.

Tracy is the heaviest hooker in the Leinster Squad

He has 7kgs on Cronin, 6kgs on Strauss, 2kgs on McNulty.

He also has 2kgs on Best.

Leinster have Tracy at close to 17 stone...

Yeah well, he looks a stone short.....so there.

Cronin is being generous with his stats I'd say
Sneaking an inch and hiding a few kilos I reckon....I reckon Seanie boy is closer to 105kg at the moment
Just from the untrained eye!!!!

[Lar]

Kearney's got done for taking out a chaser a few times now. Obviously it was a bad call this time but I think he needs to look at himself as well. It looked to me as if his only thought was to block the chaser (within the laws of the game). What I think he should have done is block while looking to chase back as well. Then the optics of his actions would look more positive/less negative

spot on

young inexperienced ref in an away game its asking for trouble

Can't agree with this view. I don't think Kearney has to concern himself with optics. All he did was stand his ground, he didn't move an inch to his right or left. He is not obliged to get out of the way. If Kearney has been pinged in the past who is to say he has not learned his lesson, no doubt drilled into him by the coaching staff, that he cannot alter his line, but equally he does not have to get out of the way. It's either illegal or it's not and I don't think anyone here disputes it was not legal. Therefore the referee made an error by even giving a penalty. He compounded it by issuing a yellow card. Having reviewed the incident he gave the penalty before going to the TMO. But having reviewed the video himself he didn't have the courage not to overrule himself when he saw the replay. I can get that with an inexperienced ref before a baying crowd. But he actually considers a penalty try before ruling that out! And then issues a yellow card for a cynical foul, when there was no foul play in the first place. The one minor thing he redeemed himself with was the final review to verify where the ball landed.

[Lar]

Kearney's got done for taking out a chaser a few times now. Obviously it was a bad call this time but I think he needs to look at himself as well. It looked to me as if his only thought was to block the chaser (within the laws of the game). What I think he should have done is block while looking to chase back as well. Then the optics of his actions would look more positive/less negative

spot on

young inexperienced ref in an away game its asking for trouble

It's something Leinster are trying to move away from I think. The MOC years were negative vibes maaan. There's no doubt in my mind Kearney is thinking I can stop this guy legally here, but that mindset of just trying to stop the other guy and not making a positive play on the ball yourself is always going to put you in potential penalty trouble. Having said that, in this instance he did make some backward movement and he is a child of the universe no less than the trees and stars. He has a right to be somewhere. It's a very harsh penalty.

I'm not going to bleat on about this all evening but stopping the player within the laws of the game is the clever play, not a negative one. Once the ball was kicked over his head Kearney was out of the game for the next moments. The only positive thing he could do was stand his ground, within the laws of the game and if the other player runs into him he should not be penalised. What I will acknowledge is that the Montpellier full back does the clever thing trying to draw a penalty, and succeeds. The ref bought it. But like I say the ref still blundered and compounded his mistake hugely by sin binning Kearney.

My original question was actually whether anyone knows how the referee assessors work in practice. Is it just a cosmetic exercise, or do refs actually get a grilling for making mistakes. Do they ever fall off competition panels for making persistent errors. I don't mind errors, we all make them, but making them worse by continuing them even after a TMO review, or just not getting the laws right is what grates. Mind you Nigel Owens and his TMO got one spectacularly wrong when disallowing Henry Speight's try last weekend for Oz, so I guess it happens to the best also.

[Peg Leg]

spot on

young inexperienced ref in an away game its asking for trouble

It's something Leinster are trying to move away from I think. The MOC years were negative vibes maaan. There's no doubt in my mind Kearney is thinking I can stop this guy legally here, but that mindset of just trying to stop the other guy and not making a positive play on the ball yourself is always going to put you in potential penalty trouble. Having said that, in this instance he did make some backward movement and he is a child of the universe no less than the trees and stars. He has a right to be somewhere. It's a very harsh penalty.

I'm not going to bleat on about this all evening but stopping the player within the laws of the game is the clever play, not a negative one. Once the ball was kicked over his head Kearney was out of the game for the next moments. The only positive thing he could do was stand his ground, within the laws of the game and if the other player runs into him he should not be penalised. What I will acknowledge is that the Montpellier full back does the clever thing trying to draw a penalty, and succeeds. The ref bought it. But like I say the ref still blundered and compounded his mistake hugely by sin binning Kearney.

My original question was actually whether anyone knows how the referee assessors work in practice. Is it just a cosmetic exercise, or do refs actually get a grilling for making mistakes. Do they ever fall off competition panels for making persistent errors. I don't mind errors, we all make them, but making them worse by continuing them even after a TMO review, or just not getting the laws right is what grates. Mind you Nigel Owens and his TMO got one spectacularly wrong when disallowing Henry Speight's try last weekend for Oz, so I guess it happens to the best also.

I've heard he is to be executed tomorrow at dawn. A fair outcome given the circumstances.

Let that be a lesson to you referee types. We don't like your kind around here!

[Dave Cahill]

Mind you Nigel Owens and his TMO got one spectacularly wrong when disallowing Henry Speight's try last weekend for Oz, so I guess it happens to the best also.

They were right for exactly the same reason that Pearce was wrong. Moving into the path of a player and obstructing him is a penalty offense. Not getting out of a players way isn't. If you look at the video and listen to the officials, Nigel uses the keywords for this offense when he asks the TMO "has he altered his line..." and its obvious that he has, and its obvious that before he does so DHP checks where Savea is before altering his line.

[simonokeeffe]

Perception is reality; if he moves at all its risky and running crossfield makes it hard to stop dead, if he was running in straight line towards kicker he probably wouldve been ok.

That said ref said there was cover so unless it was blatant check, which it wasnt, shouldnt have been yellow

[Andrew097]

Thought the penalty for the block was something I have seen before with a similar result also seen them not given. I think he could have done more not to have given the penalty as the winger was looking for it. He gave an excuse for the Ref to give it.
Kearney had a very poor game as all our big players did, I would certainly drop him as his performance level has fallen through the floor. On big days you need the big players to step up. Some of the older players are in their last few years, they will be gone soon. They have an opportunity with these quality young players to have a glorious swansong and help steer them to a European Cup. I think they could be that good so the older guys should be energised and leaving no stone unturned to win.
Kearney missed a kick to touch, then missed the tackle on the player who caught the ball, Montpellier scored their first try from the next series of plays. Kearney also missed a tackle on the winger for the second try, his head was entirely in the wrong position a school boy error, he then got himself sent to the bin. A team full of young talent does not need this sort of bad play from a senior player.
At the start of his career he missed a penalty touch in a Euro SF they scored from the return. You would forgive a 21 year old but doing the same thing in your 30s is just not on. The Leinster old guard have a chance with this young crop of players well balanced with good experience to do something.
Montpellier were lucky we gave them a few soft ones, Leinster have wo before they have new talent and experience they have a two sets of half backs that can play a high energy game. A bit of luck,intelligence and a we shall win this attitude could do wonders but the old lads have to set the culture and set the standards to win.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Mind you Nigel Owens and his TMO got one spectacularly wrong when disallowing Henry Speight's try last weekend for Oz, so I guess it happens to the best also.

They were right for exactly the same reason that Pearce was wrong. Moving into the path of a player and obstructing him is a penalty offense. Not getting out of a players way isn't. If you look at the video and listen to the officials, Nigel uses the keywords for this offense when he asks the TMO "has he altered his line..." and its obvious that he has, and its obvious that before he does so DHP checks where Savea is before altering his line.

Thought there was an overreaction to that call because of it being technically correct, but I was still disappointed and annoyed that he made it.

[etak252]

Couldn't agree more re Rob Kearney. I can't remember the last time he played really well for us. He offers very little in attack and seems to have lost all pace.

[riocard911]

Also agree on RK. That missed kick to touch from his own 22 under no great pressure was a dreadful unforced error, that ultimately led to their first try.

[simonokeeffe]

Who would we replace RK with this season or next?

Carberry is the only exciting option but required at outhalf a lot. Moving Kirchner across not a massive improvement and requires a fit & firing DK or McFadden