Coaching Ticket- Half Term Report

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Coaching Ticket- Half Term Report

Postby bails » November 5th, 2016, 7:02 pm

Have to say I am impressed by the set up at Leinster at present. We appear to ge moving in the right direction, playing well, and most importantly we are confident in what we are doing. The only blip so far appears to get the A team's home defeat to Nottingham

I have never doubted Leo' s ability, but I think it's taken Stuart Lancaster to bring his vision into fruition. Lancaster is very impressive, has defence on the boil but he also seems to have improved standards around the club, and good habits improve players. He has also shown that age is not important if you have the skill set and once again our academy production line appears to ge back in full working order.

Overall half term mark 7.5 with lots more to do

and ps somebody twist Lancaster's arm into signing along term contract.
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Re: Coaching Ticket- Half Term Report

Postby molloyjh » November 5th, 2016, 8:36 pm

In fairness we were playing some really good stuff in pre-season and in the Glasgow game, which had nothing to do with Lancaster as he was just in the door a few days for that one. I think Lancaster has definitely had a huge impact on the squad, but I also think a lot of the work done in pre-season (like bringing in Graham Henry or sending Girv down to NZ) has seriously contributed.

One thing we can say about Leo, and Dave and the others on Blues Talk have mentioned it, is the huge lack of ego. It's Leinster first. He's done a wonderful job of ensuring that and bringing in Lancaster was apparently his decision too so hats off there as well.

For me I'd go 8/10, possibly even a 9. We're not playing perfectly, but that doesn't happen overnight. We are going the right way and we are blooding a lot of players and managing the squad really well so far. We must have used 45-50 players already this season. And performances aren't dipping massively when we are making changes. The culture issues that seemed to be there last season look to have gone, which can be seen by the defensive performances. It's wholly dependent on guys trusting the lads inside them. They do and the lads inside deliver. We're top of the league and the pool in Europe and we still don't look to have hit top gear yet. It's clear there's more left to come from us. That we're delivering the results while still building is pleasing.
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Re: Coaching Ticket- Half Term Report

Postby riocard911 » November 6th, 2016, 2:44 am

molloyjh wrote:In fairness we were playing some really good stuff in pre-season and in the Glasgow game, which had nothing to do with Lancaster as he was just in the door a few days for that one. I think Lancaster has definitely had a huge impact on the squad, but I also think a lot of the work done in pre-season (like bringing in Graham Henry or sending Girv down to NZ) has seriously contributed.

One thing we can say about Leo, and Dave and the others on Blues Talk have mentioned it, is the huge lack of ego. It's Leinster first. He's done a wonderful job of ensuring that and bringing in Lancaster was apparently his decision too so hats off there as well.

For me I'd go 8/10, possibly even a 9. We're not playing perfectly, but that doesn't happen overnight. We are going the right way and we are blooding a lot of players and managing the squad really well so far. We must have used 45-50 players already this season. And performances aren't dipping massively when we are making changes. The culture issues that seemed to be there last season look to have gone, which can be seen by the defensive performances. It's wholly dependent on guys trusting the lads inside them. They do and the lads inside deliver. We're top of the league and the pool in Europe and we still don't look to have hit top gear yet. It's clear there's more left to come from us. That we're delivering the results while still building is pleasing.


And our top players made up the greater part of the first Irish team to ever beat NZ. I would hope the lift of that historic feat will be the exact opposite of the blow to our lads' confidence, that crashing out of the RWC last seaon was.
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Re: Coaching Ticket- Half Term Report

Postby molloyjh » November 6th, 2016, 3:20 am

riocard911 wrote:
molloyjh wrote:In fairness we were playing some really good stuff in pre-season and in the Glasgow game, which had nothing to do with Lancaster as he was just in the door a few days for that one. I think Lancaster has definitely had a huge impact on the squad, but I also think a lot of the work done in pre-season (like bringing in Graham Henry or sending Girv down to NZ) has seriously contributed.

One thing we can say about Leo, and Dave and the others on Blues Talk have mentioned it, is the huge lack of ego. It's Leinster first. He's done a wonderful job of ensuring that and bringing in Lancaster was apparently his decision too so hats off there as well.

For me I'd go 8/10, possibly even a 9. We're not playing perfectly, but that doesn't happen overnight. We are going the right way and we are blooding a lot of players and managing the squad really well so far. We must have used 45-50 players already this season. And performances aren't dipping massively when we are making changes. The culture issues that seemed to be there last season look to have gone, which can be seen by the defensive performances. It's wholly dependent on guys trusting the lads inside them. They do and the lads inside deliver. We're top of the league and the pool in Europe and we still don't look to have hit top gear yet. It's clear there's more left to come from us. That we're delivering the results while still building is pleasing.


And our top players made up the greater part of the first Irish team to ever beat NZ. I would hope the lift of that historic feat will be the exact opposite of the blow to our lads' confidence, that crashing out of the RWC last seaon was.


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Re: Coaching Ticket- Half Term Report

Postby curates_egg » November 6th, 2016, 12:07 pm

riocard911 wrote:
molloyjh wrote:In fairness we were playing some really good stuff in pre-season and in the Glasgow game, which had nothing to do with Lancaster as he was just in the door a few days for that one. I think Lancaster has definitely had a huge impact on the squad, but I also think a lot of the work done in pre-season (like bringing in Graham Henry or sending Girv down to NZ) has seriously contributed.

One thing we can say about Leo, and Dave and the others on Blues Talk have mentioned it, is the huge lack of ego. It's Leinster first. He's done a wonderful job of ensuring that and bringing in Lancaster was apparently his decision too so hats off there as well.

For me I'd go 8/10, possibly even a 9. We're not playing perfectly, but that doesn't happen overnight. We are going the right way and we are blooding a lot of players and managing the squad really well so far. We must have used 45-50 players already this season. And performances aren't dipping massively when we are making changes. The culture issues that seemed to be there last season look to have gone, which can be seen by the defensive performances. It's wholly dependent on guys trusting the lads inside them. They do and the lads inside deliver. We're top of the league and the pool in Europe and we still don't look to have hit top gear yet. It's clear there's more left to come from us. That we're delivering the results while still building is pleasing.


And our top players made up the greater part of the first Irish team to ever beat NZ. I would hope the lift of that historic feat will be the exact opposite of the blow to our lads' confidence, that crashing out of the RWC last seaon was.


That can have the opposite effect too though, so I hope the coaches manage the come down after November well.
One of the big flaws for me last season was managing the transitioning of the internationals back into the squad. Hopefully, that lesson has been learned.

I think the criticism of the coaching ticket last season was disproportionate given the context. However, there clearly is a greater sense of unity and purpose this year. There are presumably various factors behind that: a proper pre-season, no world cup, not too many Leinster players in South Africa, Graham Henry's coaching blitz, Lancaster... However, a lot of the credit has to go to Leo. Like a lot of people, I treated his appointment with a good degree of scepticism but, while he and the lads initially around him may not have had the coaching experience, they clearly had a vision of where Leinster needed to go. They were hamstrung last season by disruption and lack of sufficiently experienced personnel but, as Molloy says, they have looked to address that in a professional manner, devoid of ego.

It's not even half term, so I think it is too early to make a judgement on anything but the look and feel are right. If it continues, I think a lot of people - not just here but also in the IRFU and the media - will owe Cullen an apology.
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Re: Coaching Ticket- Half Term Report

Postby simonokeeffe » November 6th, 2016, 10:09 pm

PGB has to start deciding now whether to keep the ticket or not as it has to be sorted before the end of the year to allow for any changes

Only change I would make is Dempsey. Keep everyone else and chuck money at Lancaster who must be being coveted left right and centre (Bristol looking for a new coach already)
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Coaching Ticket- Half Term Report

Postby riocard911 » November 7th, 2016, 2:35 pm

Slammin' Sam in today's Grauniad:

Burgess’s time in union is often described as a symbol of everything that went wrong with England’s World Cup but those few sentences, charting his transition from novice to Premiership flanker to Test centre in less than a year, are a reminder he did make headway in a foreign game. “People might forget I chased some serious goals. Fingers will always be pointed but deep down I wouldn’t change anything. The bottom line is that my heart didn’t lie there [in union] and I didn’t want to spend four more years doing something I didn’t quite love. People who want to dig will find out what really happened – but it won’t be me.”

Is he still in touch with Stuart Lancaster, England’s former supremo who is now an assistant coach at Leinster? “I am. I’ve spoken to Stuart three or four times since the World Cup on a friendship basis. We had a lot of respect for each other. We were in the firing line – me and him – and sometimes people forgot I was new in the game. There were lots of senior players in that team who had a lot of personality but, because of the height of media around me, it was easier for them to sit behind that.”
Sam Burgess is tackled during England’s World Cup defeat to Wales in 2015.
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Sam Burgess is tackled during England’s World Cup defeat to Wales in 2015. Photograph: Glyn Kirk/AFP/Getty Images

Did he and Lancaster become scapegoats? “I don’t like the word scapegoat. I actually don’t think anyone believed it was just down to me and Stuart.”
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Burgess is still close to Owen Farrell, his fellow league advocate who moved south from Wigan when he was a boy and is now such an impressive presence in England’s resurgence under Eddie Jones. “I caught up with Owen for a coffee and had a beer with a few of the boys in Sydney [when England completed a 3-0 series whitewash of Australia in July]. “I’m really proud of Owen and how he dominated that series. He’s probably my strongest friend in union.”

Burgess has said before that, apart from his last Test when he came on as a substitute in a losing side against Australia, England were never behind when he was on the field. He now highlights his partnership with Farrell. “We had a great combination and were on a similar wavelength. Coming from league he could understand what I was doing in games. He never took a cheap option. He’s a very honest player and that’s all you can ask for as an athlete.”

Would Farrell have been a success in the NRL had he remained in league? “No doubt about that. Deep down it’s an ambition he’d love to fulfil but his career in union is going so well.” Maybe Farrell could do a Burgess switch in reverse? “No,” Burgess says with a wry smile. “It would be a big call to make.”
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Re: Coaching Ticket- Half Term Report

Postby Dave Cahill » November 7th, 2016, 2:59 pm

The problem wasn't Burgess, the problem was that when they were leading 25-18 (when Burgess was substituted after playing very well) against Wales they couldn't close out the game. It became a cheap stick to beat the England managment with, but from a playing perspective, the reality is that Burgess was actually one of England's better players in the tournament.
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Re: Coaching Ticket- Half Term Report

Postby matt » November 7th, 2016, 3:44 pm

LC recognising himself that he and the coaching team needed some expertise was impressive and have always liked his lack of ego. As a Leinster (& Leicester) player and captain he was a great organiser of lineouts and was very clever in taking down mauls and then playing the referee with a look of innocence. To watch him being interviewed now he is very confident and relaxed.

SL recognised the potential and the Leinster brand/training facilities/support immediately and seems to enjoy the culture. He probably has made a number of small tweaks that a lot of us are not even aware of. Again he is more about results than ego and has expertise and experience. It is great motivation for senior players and up and coming academy players to have him around and the rest of coaching team too. It would be a major coup to keep him for another few years and would probably be very good for him as well.

I have met JF and he is outgoing, articulative, determined and intelligent and also knows the dark arts of the front row. He is an ideal support to Leo and Stuart and no doubt he is becoming a better coach each year.

GD did very well with the Academy and his NZ stint should help in developing him further. This year players are delaying passes with better timing and progress is there to see. Would like to see a real finisher (Winger) in the team which would take us to the next level.
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Re: Coaching Ticket- Half Term Report

Postby riocard911 » November 7th, 2016, 3:45 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:The problem wasn't Burgess, the problem was that when they were leading 25-18 (when Burgess was substituted after playing very well) against Wales they couldn't close out the game. It became a cheap stick to beat the England managment with, but from a playing perspective, the reality is that Burgess was actually one of England's better players in the tournament.


Agree totally!!!
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Re: Coaching Ticket- Half Term Report

Postby erskinechilders » November 7th, 2016, 6:17 pm

matt wrote:GD did very well with the Academy and his NZ stint should help in developing him further. This year players are delaying passes with better timing and progress is there to see. Would like to see a real finisher (Winger) in the team which would take us to the next level.


Agree completely with everything but fingers crossed we've found that winger in Adam Byrne, game time for him over the next few months and he could be very good!
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Re: Coaching Ticket- Half Term Report

Postby Ruckedtobits » November 7th, 2016, 7:22 pm

Enjoying the quality and depth of this discussion.

One of the key elements is time. GD has worked with every one of the players who have come through this season, but particularly the backs. Many commentators, here and elsewhere, felt that our Academy "production line" had failed, or at least stalled, in producing backs. GD was a relatively conservative full-back and may also be a conservative Coach. He possibly considered that starring at B&I level was no where near a high enough standard to guarantee success at Pro12 or higher and hence was reluctant to push some of those guys upwards before now.

Adam Byrne, Barry Daly, Tom Daly, Luke McGrath, Ross Byrne and, of course, Joey Carbery have all looked like players who are making real progress this Season. Critically they have all got game time but, just as importantly, they have spent a full season alongside the Sexton, Heaslip, McGrath, Kearney, Healy leadership cadre, none of whom are bullshitters but each of whom expects the highest standards throughout the Group.

Add in the quality of affirmation and confirmation of those standards from Sir Graham and SL and it's reasonable to suggest that the "leap forward" in player development and Squad Depth has been planned and is now coming to maturity in a gradual fashion.

I'll admit to being totally biased in support of the current Coaching Ticket but I believe that the addition of SL has placed them in a very strong position to continue development and, probably, win trophies.

As to the future, who knows? Based on copious reading of the business of management in sports, if a management group are happy with the internal dynamic and the team is on an upward trajectory, there's usually very little motivation to want out or to jump ship. There are a very small number of perennial winners in professional sports. If, as a coach, you have the opportunity to join one of these, or better still, contribute to creating such a winning group, you should smile graciously and grab it with both hands.

I live it hope.
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Re: Coaching Ticket- Half Term Report

Postby jezzer » November 7th, 2016, 11:04 pm

For Leo, I think the temptation to follow Joe's blueprint in Leinster must have been (and still might be) huge. You're always committing so many players to the green cause and the time it takes players to decompress and switch tactics/calls/mindset must have a negative effect.

Then you're also taking over from a coach with an infamous lack of structure, so you have holes to fill. Girve is coming in from the A setup, where it must be near impossible to have a complex gameplan on matchday, as you have different players available every game.

All in all, it not surprising maybe that last year was very vanilla and perhaps a bit lacking in skill levels and heads-up rugby.

So to see everyone in the setup grasp the nettle and innovate their way out of the issue, in a direction that is clearly "Leinster" in style but not necessarily "Ireland", to travel abroad to learn, to bring in two world-class rugby minds in Henry and Bomber, is frankly wonderful.

That the results would be so immediate and successful (in general) is even better. 4 things I think we're again doing at a top level:

Rucking over the ball and putting it on a plate

Running straight, fixing defenders and passing out in front of receivers

Flooding channels with support players when we get in behind

Winning the territory battle without resorting to multiple box kicks/garryowens.

We haven't seen those four things at any decent standard since Joe left and even his last year we regressed.

It's not perfect yet and rugby evolves so much we'd be mad to not vary our game too, but you have to be excited about the product on the pitch and even more about the courage of the brains trust at Leinster. Even if Lancaster leaves, which I hope he won't but feel sure he will, we have demonstrated that we know the importance of elite coaching and can deliver it without political shenanigans.
Last edited by jezzer on November 8th, 2016, 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coaching Ticket- Half Term Report

Postby Oldschool » November 8th, 2016, 9:15 am

jezzer wrote:I think the temptation to follow Joe's blueprint in Leinster must have been (and still might be) huge. YOU'RE committing so many players to green and the time it takes to decompress and switch tactics/calls/ mindset must have a negative effect.

Then you're taking over from a coach with an infamous lack of structure and Girve is coming from the A setup where it must be near impossible to have a complex gameplan as you have different players available every game.

All in all, it not surprising maybe that last year was very vanilla and perhaps a bit lacking in skill levels and heads up rugby.

So to see everyone in the setup grasp the nettle and innovate the way out of the issue, in a direction that is clearly "Leinster" in style but not necessarily "Ireland", to travel abroad to learn, to bring in two world class rugby minds in Henry and Bomber, is frankly wonderful.

That the results would be so immediate and successful (in general) is even better. 4 things I think we're again doing at a top level:

Rucking over the ball and putting it on a plate

Running straight, fixing defenders and passing out in front of receivers

Flooding channels with support players when we get in behind

Winning the territory battle without resting to multiple box kicks/garryowens.

We haven't seen those four things at any decent standard since Joe left and even his last year we regressed.

It's not perfect yet and rugby evolves so much we'd be mad to not vary our game too, but you have to be excited about the product on the pitch and even more about the courage of the brains trust at Leinster. Even if Lancaster leaves, which I hope he won't but feel sure he will, we have demonstrated that we know the importance of elite coaching and can deliver it without political shenanigans.

Really hope Burt stays for at least another season.
Apart from being a decent guy and a top class coach with the right experience he also brings a bit of what Joe brought.
The outside view of Leinster, the what the rest of the world thinks of us.
This gives us insights into what others think our weaknesses and strengths are and how to counter them.
Coming from from Burt that is and will be a major advantage.
I"m sure Joe is getting the same insights from Andy Farrell too.
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Re: Coaching Ticket- Half Term Report

Postby Ruckedtobits » November 8th, 2016, 6:45 pm

Oldschool wrote:
jezzer wrote:I think the temptation to follow Joe's blueprint in Leinster must have been (and still might be) huge. YOU'RE committing so many players to green and the time it takes to decompress and switch tactics/calls/ mindset must have a negative effect.

Then you're taking over from a coach with an infamous lack of structure and Girve is coming from the A setup where it must be near impossible to have a complex gameplan as you have different players available every game.

All in all, it not surprising maybe that last year was very vanilla and perhaps a bit lacking in skill levels and heads up rugby.

So to see everyone in the setup grasp the nettle and innovate the way out of the issue, in a direction that is clearly "Leinster" in style but not necessarily "Ireland", to travel abroad to learn, to bring in two world class rugby minds in Henry and Bomber, is frankly wonderful.

That the results would be so immediate and successful (in general) is even better. 4 things I think we're again doing at a top level:

Rucking over the ball and putting it on a plate

Running straight, fixing defenders and passing out in front of receivers

Flooding channels with support players when we get in behind

Winning the territory battle without resting to multiple box kicks/garryowens.

We haven't seen those four things at any decent standard since Joe left and even his last year we regressed.

It's not perfect yet and rugby evolves so much we'd be mad to not vary our game too, but you have to be excited about the product on the pitch and even more about the courage of the brains trust at Leinster. Even if Lancaster leaves, which I hope he won't but feel sure he will, we have demonstrated that we know the importance of elite coaching and can deliver it without political shenanigans.

Really hope Burt stays for at least another season.
Apart from being a decent guy and a top class coach with the right experience he also brings a bit of what Joe brought.
The outside view of Leinster, the what the rest of the world thinks of us.
This gives us insights into what others think our weaknesses and strengths are and how to counter them.
Coming from from Burt that is and will be a major advantage.
I"m sure Joe is getting the same insights from Andy Farrell too.
Don"t be shy with the advice lads.


Agree with both those views but might add that Burt & Andy also brought an extraordinary level of technical knowledge as to how we had been analysed and assessed by a totally different group of experts - at least in the areas where we were major contributors to the Green jersey - Front Row, 2nd Row, Back-row, Half-Back and Back three.
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Re: Coaching Ticket- Half Term Report

Postby Grumpy Old Man » April 30th, 2017, 11:29 pm

Don't know how to quote it but rumour on Twitter that Girve is off to Bordeaux as backs coach. Mr. Cahill may have more info!
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Re: Coaching Ticket- Half Term Report

Postby Dave Cahill » April 30th, 2017, 11:35 pm

Grumpy Old Man wrote:Don't know how to quote it but rumour on Twitter that Girve is off to Bordeaux as backs coach. Mr. Cahill may have more info!


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Re: Coaching Ticket- Half Term Report

Postby Grumpy Old Man » April 30th, 2017, 11:43 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:
Grumpy Old Man wrote:Don't know how to quote it but rumour on Twitter that Girve is off to Bordeaux as backs coach. Mr. Cahill may have more info!


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Your modesty does you credit...
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Re: Coaching Ticket- Half Term Report

Postby D4surfer » May 1st, 2017, 11:44 am

Girv signed a one year contract in April according to this article.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/l ... -1.3037815
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Re: Coaching Ticket- Half Term Report

Postby Ruckedtobits » May 1st, 2017, 4:51 pm

No indications from Rugbyrama or Bordeaux Begles Twitter about Girv doi.g anything with Bordeaux Beg
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