Scarlets v Leinster Friday 25/11 k.o. 19:35

[wixfjord]

Surely a Leinster fans wants the best player playing? So what's 'enduring' about people wanting a guy who's in better form to be starting?

The preciousness is strange around McGrath.

I think it's got to do with the fact that some consider it a clear cut case of JGP being a better player than McGrath, which you're indicating in your post. It isn't at all clear cut. I myself prefer Luke in the main over JGP.

What are you on about?! Where did I indicate that it's a 'clear cut case of JGP being a better player than McGrath'?!
The best player for a given game could be either of them, depending on who we're playing, what type of game and what form they're in. Previously that was JGP, who has been playing well, for the weekend and Northampton away it might be McGrath.

The issue I'm referring to is the weird post about 'enduring' calls for JGP to start!

[molloyjh]

What are you on about?! Where did I indicate that it's a 'clear cut case of JGP being a better player than McGrath'?!
The best player for a given game could be either of them, depending on who we're playing, what type of game and what form they're in. Previously that was JGP, who has been playing well, for the weekend and Northampton away it might be McGrath.

The issue I'm referring to is the weird post about 'enduring' calls for JGP to start!

Maybe I'm just reading your post wrong, but I took it to mean that you thought JGP was the "best player" and the "guy who's in better form". If not then apologies, I just read it wrong.

Also, I'm just trying to have a conversation here. I know it's the Internet, but we could do with a bit less of the exclamation marks etc. I'm a reasonable enough bloke, honest.

[riocard911]

The best thing about the Scarlet's match is that we won't have to endure people calling for JGP to be installed as our number one scrum half ahead of Luke McGrath anymore, buíochas le Dia!!!!

What a bizzare post.
You don't want to 'endure' people calling for a player who's performing better to be our starting 9?

No, that's correct. I like both players, have nothing against either. What did however get my goat, was the bigging up of JPG on his arrival at the expense of McGrath, as if there was a huge difference in their abilities, which to my mind their isn't. It reminded me of children, who as soon as they get a new toy throw the old one, even if it's still perfectly good, in the corner. Nothing against JPG, I just though it it was unfair to McGrath. Maybe I'm overstating the case and perhaps being unfair to people, but that's just the way it came across to me. I hope Luke and Jamison have a long and productive rivalry for the Leinster number 9 shirt similar to what Boss and Reddan had.

@wixfjord: rather than banging on about my original posting being "bizarre" and "weird" perhaps you would like to take cognizance of the follow up posting - above in which I pointed out that my original wish, how clearly or not stated, was that there be post Scarlets match a more balanced discussion of the merits and failings of both our leading number 9s. It was the bigging up of JGP to caused me to post in the first place. You seem to think such bigging up was all in my own mind. I choose to differ.

[hugonaut]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/38113009

Highlights from BBC.

[wixfjord]

@wixfjord: rather than banging on about my original posting being "bizarre" and "weird" perhaps you would like to take cognizance of the follow up posting - above in which I pointed out that my original wish, how clearly or not stated, was that there be post Scarlets match a more balanced discussion of the merits and failings of both our leading number 9s. It was the bigging up of JGP to caused me to post in the first place. You seem to think such bigging up was all in my own mind. I choose to differ.

No I don't. JGP has rightly been praised because he has been very good at times this year.
My issue was with you referencing 'the bigging up of JPG on his arrival at the expense of McGrath'.
It's not a zero sum argument. Just because one player is playing well and being praised, doesn't automatically mean it's at the expense of someone else.

JGP was the guy in better form, and now it looks like McGrath is. I don't mind who plays 9 so long as they're playing well.

[artaneboy]

You were the one who started the whole conversation with your 'we won't have to endure other people ragging on Luke' post ffs!
That's hardly 'supporting both players'.

It's not knocking one though either? It's supportive of Luke without being dismissive or disparaging to JGP.

Several days later and the original intention of the post gets rationalised, etc., and I'm reluctant to get back into this. But here goes... on balance I largely agree with much of what you write- if you read the correspondence, they should be evident.

EXCEPT- the original post sought to bury any promotion of Gibson-Park vis-a-vis McGrath on the basis of the former's supposedly awful game. The example I gave was just one of a series of poor options or mistakes that Luke made, as Jamie did before him. I see no evidence that Luke is the better long term option- at THIS stage. And I think it's entirely fair to hold him to the same standard (no higher) as Jamie.

You seem to implying that Luke is better than Gibson-Park with a series of in no way provable or even reasonably demonstrable claims of their relative abilities. On their potential, all we can say is that both of them have an amount and they might be able to realise it.

The Scarlet's match illustrated merely that they both were mediocre on the night. We've seen a fair amount of Luke- much less of Jamie, let's see how they play and not rush to over-praise or denigrate. There's no point in it.


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[artaneboy]

Surely a Leinster fans wants the best player playing? So what's 'enduring' about people wanting a guy who's in better form to be starting?

The preciousness is strange around McGrath.

I think it's got to do with the fact that some consider it a clear cut case of JGP being a better player than McGrath, which you're indicating in your post. It isn't at all clear cut. I myself prefer Luke in the main over JGP.

I think you'll find the push-back came from those not convinced by the premature attempts to crown Luke as the top 9- not the other way around. I said it before, it does him no favours.

Yes- 'preciousness' is the operative word. Strange indeed...


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[artaneboy]

duplicate post

[Oldschoolsocks]

Well at least there's that


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[Dave Cahill]

Anyone know when Barry Daly's hearing is set for?

[Dave Cahill]

It seems it's on wednesday

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Elliot Daly got 3 weeks (reduced from 6) for pretty much the exact same incident.

[molloyjh]

It seems it's on wednesday

Is it me or is Wednesday a ridiculously late timeframe for this? Obviously in this particular case Leinster have to assume that he'll (rightly) receive a couple of weeks off. But if the incident were less clear cut it doesn't give teams a huge amount of time to prep properly. Surely this should all be done and dusted by today at the latest?

[the spoofer]

It seems it's on wednesday

I doubt he will get much, there was clearly a nudge that sent him into the Scarlets player. He should have just held him in the air, penalty and no card. The problem was that he let him go. Same with Foley on Dev.

[Dave Cahill]

It seems it's on wednesday

I doubt he will get much, there was clearly a nudge that sent him into the Scarlets player. He should have just held him in the air, penalty and no card. The problem was that he let him go. Same with Foley on Dev.

He'll get the same as his namesake in England, there or thereabouts.

[molloyjh]

I think you'll find the push-back came from those not convinced by the premature attempts to crown Luke as the top 9- not the other way around. I said it before, it does him no favours.

Yes- 'preciousness' is the operative word. Strange indeed...

I don't post here as regularly as some and go through periods where I'm not here for a few weeks so I don't see everything. From my own perspective there has been a bit of confirmation bias around Luke McGraths passing that I find frustrating. The guy has improved there hugely and most, if not all, 9s will have the odd poor pass here and there. While for most that gets ignored, each and every one is emphasised with McGrath.

In terms of how he stacks up against JGP I think he's stronger in some areas and weaker in others. His cover defence is top notch (watch him in his sweeper role, he's very good there), his kicking game is infinitely better than JGPs (who consistently kicks far too long) and it's starting to look like he may bring more direction to the half backs than JGP does (one swallow does not a summer make, so let's see on that one as the season goes on). All that said he isn't as quick or his passing as accurate as JGP. For me JGP is almost the perfect impact 9. Like Cronin he's a guy you can take off the bench to ramp up the speed and pressure on tiring opposition.

In short McGrath isn't the second coming. JGP is better at the core basics of a 9s game, but I think McGrath has a more rounded game overall. I like both but the 9 with the more rounded game who is also a local guy would be my preference. His passing isn't as bad as some make out and what he brings elsewhere for me helps to balance it all out a bit. Plus if his passing has improved so far, it can improve further. Also, from an Irish perspective we really need someone to push on as a back-up for Murray too.

[riocard911]

I think you'll find the push-back came from those not convinced by the premature attempts to crown Luke as the top 9- not the other way around. I said it before, it does him no favours.

Yes- 'preciousness' is the operative word. Strange indeed...

I don't post here as regularly as some and go through periods where I'm not here for a few weeks so I don't see everything. From my own perspective there has been a bit of confirmation bias around Luke McGraths passing that I find frustrating. The guy has improved there hugely and most, if not all, 9s will have the odd poor pass here and there. While for most that gets ignored, each and every one is emphasised with McGrath.

In terms of how he stacks up against JGP I think he's stronger in some areas and weaker in others. His cover defence is top notch (watch him in his sweeper role, he's very good there), his kicking game is infinitely better than JGPs (who consistently kicks far too long) and it's starting to look like he may bring more direction to the half backs than JGP does (one swallow does not a summer make, so let's see on that one as the season goes on). All that said he isn't as quick or his passing as accurate as JGP. For me JGP is almost the perfect impact 9. Like Cronin he's a guy you can take off the bench to ramp up the speed and pressure on tiring opposition.

In short McGrath isn't the second coming. JGP is better at the core basics of a 9s game, but I think McGrath has a more rounded game overall. I like both but the 9 with the more rounded game who is also a local guy would be my preference. His passing isn't as bad as some make out and what he brings elsewhere for me helps to balance it all out a bit. Plus if his passing has improved so far, it can improve further. Also, from an Irish perspective we really need someone to push on as a back-up for Murray too.

+1

[Peg Leg]

It seems it's on wednesday

I doubt he will get much, there was clearly a nudge that sent him into the Scarlets player. He should have just held him in the air, penalty and no card. The problem was that he let him go. Same with Foley on Dev.

A nudge meballix, he misjudged the distance and hit the man in the air.

[Oldschool]

I think you'll find the push-back came from those not convinced by the premature attempts to crown Luke as the top 9- not the other way around. I said it before, it does him no favours.

Yes- 'preciousness' is the operative word. Strange indeed...

I don't post here as regularly as some and go through periods where I'm not here for a few weeks so I don't see everything. From my own perspective there has been a bit of confirmation bias around Luke McGraths passing that I find frustrating. The guy has improved there hugely and most, if not all, 9s will have the odd poor pass here and there. While for most that gets ignored, each and every one is emphasised with McGrath.

In terms of how he stacks up against JGP I think he's stronger in some areas and weaker in others. His cover defence is top notch (watch him in his sweeper role, he's very good there), his kicking game is infinitely better than JGPs (who consistently kicks far too long) and it's starting to look like he may bring more direction to the half backs than JGP does (one swallow does not a summer make, so let's see on that one as the season goes on). All that said he isn't as quick or his passing as accurate as JGP. For me JGP is almost the perfect impact 9. Like Cronin he's a guy you can take off the bench to ramp up the speed and pressure on tiring opposition.

In short McGrath isn't the second coming. JGP is better at the core basics of a 9s game, but I think McGrath has a more rounded game overall. I like both but the 9 with the more rounded game who is also a local guy would be my preference. His passing isn't as bad as some make out and what he brings elsewhere for me helps to balance it all out a bit. Plus if his passing has improved so far, it can improve further. Also, from an Irish perspective we really need someone to push on as a back-up for Murray too.

That's a pretty good appraisal of both players.
McGrath reads the game better but JGP has a better pass and as you say that is exactly what you want coming off the bench.
The hope would be that Lancaster will stay around long enough to improve both players weaknesses and that McGrath initially gets a lot of exposure to Joe in camp.
McGrath gets the nod in that regard because it's easier to work on a player's skill deficiencies than their tactical awareness.