Fan with smartphone wrote:
Didn't see the match (ahem, personal reasons), so nothing to say about it, but Reid and Tracy having fine seasons and glad to hear Conan back in and firing well. Don't know other people's thoughts but I've kind of been hoping to see him moving across to 6, particularly thinking to the future with Deegan being in the academy. Conan is such a good carrier, but to me it's a little similar to munster playing stander at 8. He carries hard and does it well, stats will potentially look good, but I'd take a Heaslip type who has an arguably more rounded game over that as my 8. Deegan is potentially that, just as O'Donoghue is for munster. Conan at 6, Deegan groomed as Heaslip's successor and any of the opensides would be an exciting young backrow for me. Probably last night he demonstrated an absolute full repertoire of skills after me saying this.
Really interesting idea. Conan looks like an out and out 8 and I'd have never even considered it before seeing how successful Stander's move has been but now that you've said it I'd like to see it. Not that he has to make a move to 6 as such, but it'd be interesting just to experiment with it.
Forgot to say this after the game but thought it was a great decision to bring Zane on after the red card. They had our number out wide and that move fixed it to an extent. Harsh on Dippy to have to come off but when he hasn't had many games recently and was playing well, but it was a great idea to back Conan and Leavy to just do the extra work required. They were brilliant anyway but when you consider we were a man down in the back row it makes their performances even better.
riocard911 wrote:The best thing about the Scarlet's match is that we won't have to endure people calling for JGP to be installed as our number one scrum half ahead of Luke McGrath anymore, buíochas le Dia!!!!
Huh- you wish! Jamie had an off day in some ways, but his passing was still much superior to Luke's. Remember that one which "died" just as Byrne looked set to pick the Scarlett's defence about 20 mi s from the end? I rest my case.
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This is the kind of thing that really gets on my wick when people criticise Luke. Yeah he had that bad pass, but JGP threw two horrible passes in the first few minutes and you've completely ignored them and come to the conclusion that JGP's passing was better last night.
And it's Jamison, not jamie.
Ah, it's Jamie to his supporters...
That wasn't the only fault in Luke's cameo- kicks, breaks that weren't there, etc. Fairly typical really. Your whir argument is based on a reduction of JGP's standard to McGrath's and that's not a great position to start from. It's even weaker when Luke plays as per normal with all the same strengths and weaknesses. Luke's passing has improved- but not enough. I didn't see any passes of a similar shite type from Jamie.
But the real issue here is you're attitude. You welcome a suboptimal performance (and that's all it was- not terrible or anything like it) from Gibson-Park because that will make McGrath the top SH. Can you not see what's wrong with that whole pattern of thought?
"Oh, I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused!"
artaneboy wrote:
Huh- you wish! Jamie had an off day in some ways, but his passing was still much superior to Luke's. Remember that one which "died" just as Byrne looked set to pick the Scarlett's defence about 20 mi s from the end? I rest my case.
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This is the kind of thing that really gets on my wick when people criticise Luke. Yeah he had that bad pass, but JGP threw two horrible passes in the first few minutes and you've completely ignored them and come to the conclusion that JGP's passing was better last night.
And it's Jamison, not jamie.
Ah, it's Jamie to his supporters...
That wasn't the only fault in Luke's cameo- kicks, breaks that weren't there, etc. Fairly typical really. Your whole argument seems based on a reduction of JGP's standard to McGrath's and that's not a great position to start from. It's even weaker when Luke plays as per normal with all the same strengths and weaknesses. Luke's passing has improved- but not enough. I didn't see any passes of a similar shite type from Jamie.
But the real issue here is you're attitude. You welcome a suboptimal performance (and that's all it was- not terrible or anything like it) from Gibson-Park because that will make McGrath the top SH. Can you not see what's wrong with that whole pattern of thought?
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"Oh, I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused!"
artaneboy wrote:
Ah, it's Jamie to his supporters...
That wasn't the only fault in Luke's cameo- kicks, breaks that weren't there, etc. Fairly typical really. Your whir argument is based on a reduction of JGP's standard to McGrath's and that's not a great position to start from. It's even weaker when Luke plays as per normal with all the same strengths and weaknesses. Luke's passing has improved- but not enough. I didn't see any passes of a similar shite type from Jamie.
But the real issue here is you're attitude. You welcome a suboptimal performance (and that's all it was- not terrible or anything like it) from Gibson-Park because that will make McGrath the top SH. Can you not see what's wrong with that whole pattern of thought?
Why would you possibly say that I welcomed that performance? I have said absolutely nothing to indicate that. Not one word.
My whole argument is not based on that, it's based on you saying "you rest your case" about Luke's passing when JGP had more poor ones like that. It was a simple as that. Please stop reading things in my posts that I haven't said, it's tiresome.
artaneboy wrote:
Ah, it's Jamie to his supporters...
That wasn't the only fault in Luke's cameo- kicks, breaks that weren't there, etc. Fairly typical really. Your whir argument is based on a reduction of JGP's standard to McGrath's and that's not a great position to start from. It's even weaker when Luke plays as per normal with all the same strengths and weaknesses. Luke's passing has improved- but not enough. I didn't see any passes of a similar shite type from Jamie.
But the real issue here is you're attitude. You welcome a suboptimal performance (and that's all it was- not terrible or anything like it) from Gibson-Park because that will make McGrath the top SH. Can you not see what's wrong with that whole pattern of thought?
Why would you possibly say that I welcomed that performance? I have said absolutely nothing to indicate that. Not one word.
My whole argument is not based on that, it's based on you saying "you rest your case" about Luke's passing when JGP had more poor ones like that. It was a simple as that. Please stop reading things in my posts that I haven't said, it's tiresome.
Ditto. I "rested my case" on a typical Luke passing moment. It wasn't the only one- or the only error. It was an egregious example designed to illustrate that claims that McGrath was not clearly ahead of Jamie and any debate ended was BS.
To try to imply that I was basing my refusal to jump on the McGrath bandwagon or on JGP's professional grave on that one move alone is equally irritating. Tell you what, you resist the urge to do that- and so will I.
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"Oh, I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused!"
There's that leap again, I was specifically talking about their passing last night, not who's the better passer/player in general so no need for the exaggeration about the bandwagon or professional graves. As it happens I think JGP is a much better passer, but you have read what you wanted to read and jumped to conclusions.
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:There's that leap again, I was specifically talking about their passing last night, not who's the better passer/player in general so no need for the exaggeration about the bandwagon or professional graves. As it happens I think JGP is a much better passer, but you have read what you wanted to read and jumped to conclusions.
This must be getting boring for others and I'm going to watch the Australia match now, so l leave it at this. My initial point was that there was no end of the debate between Jamie and Luke as posited. I thought that was clear from my post- but maybe not. You didn't get it anyway; fair enough. I suggest we support both players to realise their potential and let the best man fill the jersey on each occasion.
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"Oh, I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused!"
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:There's that leap again, I was specifically talking about their passing last night, not who's the better passer/player in general so no need for the exaggeration about the bandwagon or professional graves. As it happens I think JGP is a much better passer, but you have read what you wanted to read and jumped to conclusions.
This must be getting boring for others and I'm going to watch the Australia match now, so l leave it at this. My initial point was that there was no end of the debate between Jamie and Luke as posited. I thought that was clear from my post- but maybe not. You didn't get it anyway; fair enough. I suggest we support both players to realise their potential and let the best man fill the jersey on each occasion.
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:There's that leap again, I was specifically talking about their passing last night, not who's the better passer/player in general so no need for the exaggeration about the bandwagon or professional graves. As it happens I think JGP is a much better passer, but you have read what you wanted to read and jumped to conclusions.
This must be getting boring for others and I'm going to watch the Australia match now, so l leave it at this. My initial point was that there was no end of the debate between Jamie and Luke as posited. I thought that was clear from my post- but maybe not. You didn't get it anyway; fair enough. I suggest we support both players to realise their potential and let the best man fill the jersey on each occasion.
Hear! Hear!!!
You were the one who started the whole conversation with your 'we won't have to endure other people ragging on Luke' post ffs!
That's hardly 'supporting both players'.
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:There's that leap again, I was specifically talking about their passing last night, not who's the better passer/player in general so no need for the exaggeration about the bandwagon or professional graves. As it happens I think JGP is a much better passer, but you have read what you wanted to read and jumped to conclusions.
This must be getting boring for others and I'm going to watch the Australia match now, so l leave it at this. My initial point was that there was no end of the debate between Jamie and Luke as posited. I thought that was clear from my post- but maybe not. You didn't get it anyway; fair enough. I suggest we support both players to realise their potential and let the best man fill the jersey on each occasion.
Hear! Hear!!!
+1.
Just because player A s critised doesn't mean that player B is preferred.
Realistically neither of our SH is without faults in their games.
My hope would be that Burt can make both of them better players.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.
artaneboy wrote:Huh- you wish! Jamie had an off day in some ways, but his passing was still much superior to Luke's. Remember that one which "died" just as Byrne looked set to pick the Scarlett's defence about 20 mi s from the end? I rest my case.
You rest your case with 1 mistake? McGrath made a massive difference to our game when he came on. I have nothing at all against JGP, he's a fine player, but he didn't have a good game at all. And his kicking from hand has been consistently poor all season. He's a better passer generally than McGrath but there is more to a scrum halves game than passing.
I thought McGrath brought a bit of leadership and direction to our half back play that was lacking with JGP and Byrne. Did he make mistakes? Sure. Did JGP? Sure. Who had the most positive impact on that game though?
None of that is to say that JGP should forever more be demoted to the bench, just that we're starting to see the relative strengths and weaknesses of the two players. Stick JGP behind a dominant pack and with a strong 10 and he'll excel. Stick him behind a weaker pack and/or beside a weaker 10 and he'll struggle. He has a great passing and running game, but his leadership is minimal enough and his kicking game is nothing short of terrible. McGrath on the other hand is a weaker passer of the ball so won't be as effective in those scenarios where JGP is strong. However he'll manage better in less favourable circumstances than JGP will and brings things to the table that JGP simply doesn't have, i.e. leadership and a kicking game.
wixfjord wrote:You were the one who started the whole conversation with your 'we won't have to endure other people ragging on Luke' post ffs!
That's hardly 'supporting both players'.
It's not knocking one though either? It's supportive of Luke without being dismissive or disparaging to JGP.
wixfjord wrote:You were the one who started the whole conversation with your 'we won't have to endure other people ragging on Luke' post ffs!
That's hardly 'supporting both players'.
It's not knocking one though either? It's supportive of Luke without being dismissive or disparaging to JGP.
That's exactly the point I was trying to make. GRMA, molloyjh. Here's to our new number 9 combo; long may they flourish together a la Boss & Reddan!!!
wixfjord wrote:You were the one who started the whole conversation with your 'we won't have to endure other people ragging on Luke' post ffs!
That's hardly 'supporting both players'.
It's not knocking one though either? It's supportive of Luke without being dismissive or disparaging to JGP.
That's exactly the point I was trying to make. GRMA, molloyjh. Here's to our new number 9 combo; long may they flourish together a la Boss & Reddan!!!
The original post was:
The best thing about the Scarlet's match is that we won't have to endure people calling for JGP to be installed as our number one scrum half ahead of Luke McGrath anymore, buíochas le Dia!!!!
Surely a Leinster fans wants the best player playing? So what's 'enduring' about people wanting a guy who's in better form to be starting?
wixfjord wrote:Surely a Leinster fans wants the best player playing? So what's 'enduring' about people wanting a guy who's in better form to be starting?
The preciousness is strange around McGrath.
I think it's got to do with the fact that some consider it a clear cut case of JGP being a better player than McGrath, which you're indicating in your post. It isn't at all clear cut. I myself prefer Luke in the main over JGP.
