Northampton Saints v Leinster BT Friday 7.45

[nc6000]

Appears to be a bit of a media campaign going to limit the severity of Hartleys ban.

I'm not bothered by what sort of ban he gets. I think he must be at the point where coaches should just stop picking him regardless of him being banned or not.

[simonokeeffe]

Appears to be a bit of a media campaign going to limit the severity of Hartleys ban.

I'm not bothered by what sort of ban he gets. I think he must be at the point where coaches should just stop picking him regardless of him being banned or not.

Problem is hes only been banned once at international level (biting Ferris) so RFU and a lot of fans dont care about that or full appreciate his record

[Ruckedtobits]

Wheeling out Ian Ritchie followed by Roger Uttley to defend Hartley on the basis that SO'B was falling into the tackle is playing with fire.

RFU and IRFU and other Union know very well that there is a major problem of perception with our game at present. The NZ thuggery, coupled with medics apparently ignoring the knock-out of a player, followed by what appeared to be a "clothesline assault" by the English Captain are presenting a game of violence which remains unpoliced and will do so until somebody gets seriously injured.

Wake up Administrators and smell the coffee, and all the others aromas some not so pleasant. Hartley is not irreplaceable but the reputation of the game is.

[jezzer]

Wheeling out Ian Ritchie followed by Roger Uttley to defend Hartley on the basis that SO'B was falling into the tackle is playing with fire.

RFU and IRFU and other Union know very well that there is a major problem of perception with our game at present. The NZ thuggery, coupled with medics apparently ignoring the knock-out of a player, followed by what appeared to be a "clothesline assault" by the English Captain are presenting a game of violence which remains unpoliced and will do so until somebody gets seriously injured.

Wake up Administrators and smell the coffee, and all the others aromas some not so pleasant. Hartley is not irreplaceable but the reputation of the game is.

Absolutely agree. Having been a bit behind rugby, American Football is already ahead and streaking away in terms of head injury assessments. They were already ahead in terms of dangerous play.

For HIAs and the like, a new NFL report was recently commissioned, the results of which are extensive and make hard reading for the NFL in terms of its recommendations. But one key recommendation is gaining traction, that neutral doctors are needed at games to take away any inherent confirmation bias in assessments. Naturally, this is very sensitive as to adopt that recommendation is to acknowledge that doctors are making bad decisions for their patients, in favour of their paymasters. "Show me evidence doctors are biased" is the cry around the NFL owners ring.

Well, after the Northampton antics, evidence wouldn't be that hard to find in rugby. Neutral doctors might have to be the way it goes, but I don't see world rugby being prepared to foot the bill. Maybe teams would have to pay into a fund, from which matchday docs are appointed and the clubs would be expected to pare down on their own medical costs?

As for Hartley, that's not a laws-based discussion. It's about the image of the game. Guys who are bad for the game's image to the extent Hartley is should just be squeezed out of the sport. Bans help in lowering Hartley's contract value, but seemingly not enough. Clubs/RFU need to stop using the press to dilute his toxicity and the press need to stop being mouthpieces.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

As for Hartley, that's not a laws-based discussion. It's about the image of the game. Guys who are bad for the game's image to the extent Hartley is should just be squeezed out of the sport. Bans help in lowering Hartley's contract value, but seemingly not enough. Clubs/RFU need to stop using the press to dilute his toxicity and the press need to stop being mouthpieces.

Yeah we've seen players get lesser bans for first offences before so I hope it's the exact opposite in this case.

[Lar]

Wheeling out Ian Ritchie followed by Roger Uttley to defend Hartley on the basis that SO'B was falling into the tackle is playing with fire.

All true but remember if you are the RFU you are in a position where the cited player is the national team captain. All Unions have a duty towards the game in the long run but in this instance the RFU is looking after No. 1 and for the moment the game will survive.

I have no idea who is on the disciplinary committee but I hope they throw the book at him (taking care to avoid his head of course!)

[neiliog93]

With all the justified controversy surrounding concussion (which occasionally goes too far IMO), it is appalling for the RFU to strenuously defend a guy with a terrible disciplinary record who essentially knocked another player out with a swinging forearm.

Looking ahead to this game, I fancy us to repeat the feat of a BP.

[BlueWheels]

Hartley gets 6 weeks & will be available for 6 Nations

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/38298026

[Logorrhea]

lol you simply have to laugh at how predictable it all is.

[Lar]

I struggle to find swinging arms to the head in any way amusing.

Sorry logorrhea - not having a go at you - I think its bad for the game in the long run. Leinster have a fantastic academy and some great young players but I still hear other parents saying that they would prefer if their kids played a different game because Rugby doesn't do enough to protect its players.

[riocard911]

Hartley back in time for the 6 Nations? I hope he gets lumps taken out of him in Lansdowne Road Paddy's weekend. In fact, I can hardly wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[the spoofer]

I struggle to find swinging arms to the head in any way amusing.

Sorry logorrhea - not having a go at you - I think its bad for the game in the long run. Leinster have a fantastic academy and some great young players but I still hear other parents saying that they would prefer if their kids played a different game because Rugby doesn't do enough to protect its players.

Those kids are probably better off playing a different sport. Clearing out someone can be (and I want it to be) pretty brutal, an offensive tackle likewise. The head should be sacrosanct but rugby at senior level is very physical.

[Lar]

Possibly - and I do know some of them are just overly protective parents. I just think it's something the game needs to be conscious of.

[Donny B.]

Same as it ever was! After the game on Friday night, people were talking about six month bans and I laughed and said "he's England skipper, slap on the wrist". The media briefings from Rithchie and Uttley showed that Eddie Jones was standing by his fellow lowlife scumbag. They really are a wonderful couple!

Although everyone goes on about the number of weeks he's been banned, it's really the early bans for eye-gouging that racked up the numbers, he's been treated reasonably kindly in recent years! Continues to show the the rugby authorities say one "We treat head injuries seriously" and do another thing "actually we don't give a f%~k?"

[Laighin Break]

As much as I think the ban is a farce - let's add only two weeks because this guy has histroy of biting, gouging, punching, headbutting, abusive language... and then let's reduce it by a week because he admitted that he did it?! - I kinda like the idea of him playing against Ireland in Landsdowne Road and the lads really going at him and winding him up. He's always a liability and I think he could be even moreso for that game.

One strange thing about the incident that wasn't really mentioned was why it was SOB who he hit. Was he going in with a swinging arm on whoever the next player near him would be, or was he targeting SOB? SOB scored a try at 56 minutes. Hartley attacks him at 57.5 minutes...

[jimbobjoe]

As much as I think the ban is a farce - let's add only two weeks because this guy has histroy of biting, gouging, punching, headbutting, abusive language... and then let's reduce it by a week because he admitted that he did it?! - I kinda like the idea of him playing against Ireland in Landsdowne Road and the lads really going at him and winding him up. He's always a liability and I think he could be even moreso for that game.

One strange thing about the incident that wasn't really mentioned was why it was SOB who he hit. Was he going in with a swinging arm on whoever the next player near him would be, or was he targeting SOB? SOB scored a try at 56 minutes. Hartley attacks him at 57.5 minutes...

There's a chance this is true. There's also a chance that you've put 1 and 1 together and got 17. Hartley knows if he specifically targeted a player but there's no way to prove it or his motive so speculating is pointless.

[simonokeeffe]

As much as I think the ban is a farce - let's add only two weeks because this guy has histroy of biting, gouging, punching, headbutting, abusive language... and then let's reduce it by a week because he admitted that he did it?! - I kinda like the idea of him playing against Ireland in Landsdowne Road and the lads really going at him and winding him up. He's always a liability and I think he could be even moreso for that game.

One strange thing about the incident that wasn't really mentioned was why it was SOB who he hit. Was he going in with a swinging arm on whoever the next player near him would be, or was he targeting SOB? SOB scored a try at 56 minutes. Hartley attacks him at 57.5 minutes...

I like your optimistic interpretation of he could be a cause of disruption for England and their chance

[Fireworks]

As much as I think the ban is a farce - let's add only two weeks because this guy has histroy of biting, gouging, punching, headbutting, abusive language... and then let's reduce it by a week because he admitted that he did it?! - I kinda like the idea of him playing against Ireland in Landsdowne Road and the lads really going at him and winding him up. He's always a liability and I think he could be even moreso for that game.

One strange thing about the incident that wasn't really mentioned was why it was SOB who he hit. Was he going in with a swinging arm on whoever the next player near him would be, or was he targeting SOB? SOB scored a try at 56 minutes. Hartley attacks him at 57.5 minutes...

There's a chance this is true. There's also a chance that you've put 1 and 1 together and got 17. Hartley knows if he specifically targeted a player but there's no way to prove it or his motive so speculating is pointless.

But for speculation there would not be half as many posts on here.

[simonokeeffe]

specualting is also 90% of the fun of the Lions

[jezzer]

It's a joke but it was always going to be.

I don't think it's 100% clear that he intended to land the haymaker on SOB's head, as Sean was falling back. But any thought he wasn't planning to make a blindside clatter at a defenceless player - that ended up intentionally or not giving the player a serious head injury - is bullshit. But it isn't a disgrace anymore because this is what citing panels around the world do.

However, Eddie Jones, Ritchie, Gatland, McGeechan, SCW (who else?) participated willingly in an unprecedented full-court-press media campaign to convince ordinary rugby fans who are worried about head injuries and dirty play that they didn't really see the England captain almost decapitate an opponent. That's the real disgrace.