Toner & ?

[goreyguy]

It would appear Hayden Triggs(34) has become 1st choice lock to play alongside Toner(30).

I'm pretty sure every lock in the squad is out of contract after this season apart from Toner who just signed a new deal & Molony.

Ages as of end of season:
Mike McCarthy(35) - has visibily slowed down this season and has a worrying history of concussions.
Hayden Triggs(35) - surprise 1st choice now, as a NIQ is he sure to be here next season?
Devin Toner(30) - recently signed new 3 year central deal.
Ian Nagle(28) - was a surprise 1st choice player earlier this season, but fallen back now.
Mick Kearney(26) - has struggled for form all season.
Ross Molony(23) - has all the skills but has struggled with the size to be an effective top tier lock.
David O'Connor(22) - has yet to play pro 12 rugby
James Ryan(21) - out for the rest of the season

Where do everyone see the lock position next season?

[bails]

My view would be buy in a big strong experienced Argentinian scrummaging lock

His main focus to play with Nagle, Ross Molony andJames Ryan while Dev is with Ireland. Let him show the ropes, bring ideas about maul and defender and if he doing well let him play with Dev in big games

But he must be a big tough amigo

[goreyguy]

I'd say it's highly unlikely they'd be allowed sign another NIQ lock.. maybe extend triggs another season..maybe

[Flash Gordon]

I'd say it's highly unlikely they'd be allowed sign another NIQ lock.. maybe extend triggs another season..maybe

What if we got rid of Triggs and Kirchner, who are pretty average and signed somebody like Eben Etzebeth? Get him on a 1 or 2 year deal while the other lads develop. You have a top lock and a beast of a scrummager.

If you look at our breakthrough signings over the years, lads who've made a huge difference Nathan Hines and Brad Thorn would definitely be on that list.

[goreyguy]

I'd say it's highly unlikely they'd be allowed sign another NIQ lock.. maybe extend triggs another season..maybe

What if we got rid of Triggs and Kirchner, who are pretty average and signed somebody like Eben Etzebeth? Get him on a 1 or 2 year deal while the other lads develop. You have a top lock and a beast of a scrummager.

If you look at our breakthrough signings over the years, lads who've made a huge difference Nathan Hines and Brad Thorn would definitely be on that list.

I don't think that's at all realistic.. sadly

[neiliog93]

Triggs already got a renewal and would be 36 next season so almost definitely not going to be allowed to stay on. After that, Munster and Ulster have NIQs in the second row (the fact that Kleyn is a project player isn't that relevant) so I'm not sure if we'd be allowed sign a lock at all.

On the face of it, we have Toner, who still has many years left. Then we have a set of young locks that the union might demand we develop - Molony, M.Kearney, Nagle and James Ryan. That's 5 locks in total. In numbers terms, we don't actually need an NIQ lock, but in quality terms we probably do.

[leinsterforever]

I'd be looking into whether signing Aly Muldowney for next season would be a possibility. Getting two years' service out of him while Ryan matures would be a good solution in my opinion

[cormac]

Toner & Guy

[Oldschoolsocks]

Toner & Guy

One guess what your mrs bought herself from you for Christmas

But seriously, Ruddock to 4? Competition for 6and 8 is not going to get any easier, and he's shown he has the grunt.

[Ruckedtobits]

Difficult to understand selection of Triggs ahead of Nagle, Molony and McCarthy, based on match performances. Kearney hasn't got enough gametime to rank.

McCarthy the best scrum and maul exponent and tackles hard. Nagle a genuine line-out option and decent offloader. Molony the best skill-set and runs line-out but lacks physique.

Few top Coaches understand the requirements of the Second-row better than Leo so am satisfied there is a logical set of reasoning behind selections - even if I can't figure them.

[simonokeeffe]

Difficult to understand selection of Triggs ahead of Nagle, Molony and McCarthy, based on match performances. Kearney hasn't got enough gametime to rank.

McCarthy the best scrum and maul exponent and tackles hard. Nagle a genuine line-out option and decent offloader. Molony the best skill-set and runs line-out but lacks physique.

Few top Coaches understand the requirements of the Second-row better than Leo so am satisfied there is a logical set of reasoning behind selections - even if I can't figure them.

Triggs handling, passing, carrying has been great. When all are fit not sure I see him as our best partner for Dev though. Hopefully though MK can rest his shoulder over the summer and Molony can spend it in the gym. If Mike and Triggs both go though we probably need a (TH) signing of some sort even with Ryan coming up given his injury

[Fan with smartphone]

Toner & Guy

Boom. Ironic that goreguy started the thread. Lol.

Triggs already got a renewal and would be 36 next season so almost definitely not going to be allowed to stay on. After that, Munster and Ulster have NIQs in the second row (the fact that Kleyn is a project player isn't that relevant) so I'm not sure if we'd be allowed sign a lock at all.

On the face of it, we have Toner, who still has many years left. Then we have a set of young locks that the union might demand we develop - Molony, M.Kearney, Nagle and James Ryan. That's 5 locks in total. In numbers terms, we don't actually need an NIQ lock, but in quality terms we probably do.

Is that a case for saying this is the position that a high end signing would be most beneficial? You don't want to ask so much of some of these young guys in a position like second row that they break. Nagle has a history of problems, Kearney too, Molony is doing very well all things considered and Ryan has a high level of expectation. This could be the classic case of having a top quality player there day-to-day for a few years to show them the way. I'm thinking a grunty lock. I know Dev is top class, but realistically he is going to be hugely focused on the next World Cup, where he'll hopefully be big. In japan.

If you make a case that only Nacewa and JGP will be NIQ next season (with JGP a project), then as each case is individual and judged on it's merits, yada yada yada, could it happen? Maybe the player I'm describing is just Triggs to be fair, but as you stay a further extension might be unlikely for him.

I have time for all the second rows on the books at the moment, but I'm not sure how ready they are to go away for a big game and dominate it. Particularly if Dev wasn't available. Maybe next season they will be ready and it's no problem. For this season I guess a good solution would be to not have any big away games. Pick up home quarters with a seeding of 1 or 2 and if you keep winning you'd be at home until the final. Same in the league.

[Fan with smartphone]

Pick up home quarters with a seeding of 1 or 2 and if you keep winning you'd be at home until the final.[/quote]

Sorry that's not necessarily correct, had a closer look at a post elsewhere by Xanthippe (many thanks to them).

[CiaranIrl]

With Kleyn (and currently Chisholm) playing for the Munster barbarians, and Franco VDM in Ulster, they probably won't let us re-sign or replace Triggs - let's be realistic about it. I just hope that whatever happens we don't just hunt down some Z list irish eligible player that's plying his trade in an English second division team.

We'll have to make do with what we have until Ryan or others break through. Apparently there's a second very good second row prospect coming through the ranks - In the sub academy or on the radar for next year maybe? Not sure who it is. GG would know I'm sure!

[goreyguy]

There are several very good second row prospects in sub academy and school.. none that I would put in the James Ryan bracket though.

My guess I the player you heard about is Charlie Ryan, who recently captained ireland u18. But I'd be excited about several lads at that position in the underage section. In 5 years time leinster should have no worries at lock

[CiaranIrl]

There are several very good second row prospects in sub academy and school.. none that I would put in the James Ryan bracket though.

My guess I the player you heard about is Charlie Ryan, who recently captained ireland u18. But I'd be excited about several lads at that position in the underage section. In 5 years time leinster should have no worries at lock

Sounds like it could have been one of a few lads so. Great to hear. Cheers GG. You've an encyclopedic knowledge of rugby prospects of the future.

[goreyguy]

There are several very good second row prospects in sub academy and school.. none that I would put in the James Ryan bracket though.

My guess I the player you heard about is Charlie Ryan, who recently captained ireland u18. But I'd be excited about several lads at that position in the underage section. In 5 years time leinster should have no worries at lock

Sounds like it could have been one of a few lads so. Great to hear. Cheers GG. You've an encyclopedic knowledge of rugby prospects of the future.

Yeah it's quite sad really.

[Ruckedtobits]

With Kleyn (and currently Chisholm) playing for the Munster barbarians, and Franco VDM in Ulster, they probably won't let us re-sign or replace Triggs - let's be realistic about it. I just hope that whatever happens we don't just hunt down some Z list irish eligible player that's plying his trade in an English second division team.

We'll have to make do with what we have until Ryan or others break through. Apparently there's a second very good second row prospect coming through the ranks - In the sub academy or on the radar for next year maybe? Not sure who it is. GG would know I'm sure!

There is a big Irish 2nd row called Flanagan playing with Sarries after a couple of years of French experience in Pro D2 and also some Championship exposure. Given that front-five forwards don't mature into their bodies until post-25, Flanagan and Treadwell from Ulster (formerly an Exile but England U.20),alongside James Ryan and O'Shea from Munster will be the next generation of Irish second-rows.

Many outside Leinster would consider that Dev only became an international standard second-row in past three years, despite his unique physique, so each of the players mentioned above have maturing time in hand.

[hugonaut]

With Kleyn (and currently Chisholm) playing for the Munster barbarians, and Franco VDM in Ulster, they probably won't let us re-sign or replace Triggs - let's be realistic about it. I just hope that whatever happens we don't just hunt down some Z list irish eligible player that's plying his trade in an English second division team.

We'll have to make do with what we have until Ryan or others break through. Apparently there's a second very good second row prospect coming through the ranks - In the sub academy or on the radar for next year maybe? Not sure who it is. GG would know I'm sure!

I'd be pretty happy with our current stock. We're spreading gametime very thinly across our second rows at the moment - all of them bar Toner could easily have played twice as much rugby as they have this season.

I think we've played 17 competitive games this season – the stupid f*cking website makes everything so hard to check these days – and not one of our locks has played even 50% of the available gametime [1360 mins].

Kearney [4+3] 248 mins
McCarthy [6+2] 426 mins
Molony [4+5] 421 mins
Nagle [5+2] 407 mins
Toner [8+1] 642 mins
Triggs [5+1] 345mins

Molony played in 21 games for us [13+8] last season as a 21 year old. I would be surprised if James Ryan played that many next year but I have no doubt that he is going to be playing a decent bit of first team rugby next season.

[neiliog93]

With Kleyn (and currently Chisholm) playing for the Munster barbarians, and Franco VDM in Ulster, they probably won't let us re-sign or replace Triggs - let's be realistic about it. I just hope that whatever happens we don't just hunt down some Z list irish eligible player that's plying his trade in an English second division team.

We'll have to make do with what we have until Ryan or others break through. Apparently there's a second very good second row prospect coming through the ranks - In the sub academy or on the radar for next year maybe? Not sure who it is. GG would know I'm sure!

There is a big Irish 2nd row called Flanagan playing with Sarries after a couple of years of French experience in Pro D2 and also some Championship exposure. Given that front-five forwards don't mature into their bodies until post-25, Flanagan and Treadwell from Ulster (formerly an Exile but England U.20),alongside James Ryan and O'Shea from Munster will be the next generation of Irish second-rows.

Many outside Leinster would consider that Dev only became an international standard second-row in past three years, despite his unique physique, so each of the players mentioned above have maturing time in hand.

Flanagan came through the Leinster academy and is Toner's first cousin. Could be an option on the rebound alright.