How many NIQ's next season?

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How many NIQ's next season?

Postby goreyguy » January 17th, 2017, 10:56 am

Right now Leinster have one NIQ under contract next season: JGP

Triggs, Nacewa & Kirchner are out of contract.

Will Leinster be allowed resign any of these players?
Or sign NIQs to replace them?
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Re: How many NIQ's next season?

Postby johng » January 17th, 2017, 11:18 am

As good a place as any to discuss if we really need them?

Possibly not so much. Personally I'd like to keep Isa for another year if he's willing.

One big name signing, who ain't gonna play intl rugby, to get some bums on seats. And we'd be sound. Not sure where? 2Nd row? Back 3? Front row?
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Re: How many NIQ's next season?

Postby Logorrhea » January 17th, 2017, 11:25 am

2nd Row is the one area that could do with some strengthening. Needs to be the right player and on current form I'd be more than happy to try and retain Triggs.

Nacewa is a no brainer. He's playing as well as ever so its all about whether he wants to keep going or not.
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Re: How many NIQ's next season?

Postby All Blacks nil » January 17th, 2017, 11:26 am

johng wrote:As good a place as any to discuss if we really need them?

Possibly not so much. Personally I'd like to keep Isa for another year if he's willing.

One big name signing, who ain't gonna play intl rugby, to get some bums on seats. And we'd be sound. Not sure where? 2Nd row? Back 3? Front row?


Such a signing would have to be good enough to command a starting place in a first choice fifteen.
Personally, I feel second row or scrum half are where Leinster lack real depth and quality. As they won't be allowed sign a Scrumhalf with JGP in situ, a top class second row to partner Dev and to lead during the various international windows would be be top of my shopping list.
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Re: How many NIQ's next season?

Postby johng » January 17th, 2017, 12:01 pm

I would concur AB0 but with the half a gazlion of them in Munster would we be let? :)

Chisholm gone and Van Der Merwe off at the end of the season might open the door.
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Re: How many NIQ's next season?

Postby cormac » January 17th, 2017, 12:13 pm

goreyguy wrote:Right now Leinster have one NIQ under contract next season: JGP

Triggs, Nacewa & Kirchner are out of contract.

Will Leinster be allowed resign any of these players?
Or sign NIQs to replace them?


Unless we can source a real top-notch NIQ second row, I'd be happy enough to offer Triggs another deal, should such a thing be permitted. Ditto with Isa. If Isa and Kirchner both depart are we likely to be allowed to sign an NIQ as a replacement?
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Re: How many NIQ's next season?

Postby molloyjh » January 17th, 2017, 12:15 pm

I wonder could we extend Triggs and Isa by a year if we agreed to reduce their game time in favour of IQ guys. That and the fact that we would only have 2 NIQs and a project would surely be a good sell? I get the point on the top class NIQ lock, but I don't think we'll get approval for that with Toner, Nagle, Kearney and Molony there (and Ryan and O'Connor coming through). We're already seeing those few IQ guys struggling to get game time as it is with Triggs there.
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Re: How many NIQ's next season?

Postby All Blacks nil » January 17th, 2017, 12:25 pm

cormac wrote:
goreyguy wrote:Right now Leinster have one NIQ under contract next season: JGP

Triggs, Nacewa & Kirchner are out of contract.

Will Leinster be allowed resign any of these players?
Or sign NIQs to replace them?


Unless we can source a real top-notch NIQ second row, I'd be happy enough to offer Triggs another deal, should such a thing be permitted. Ditto with Isa. If Isa and Kirchner both depart are we likely to be allowed to sign an NIQ as a replacement?


While Triggs is a fine player, he probably isn't of the quality required to be your lead second row. If Triggs is resigned it will probably be a minimum two year contract. i.e you won't be signing another NIQ second row until 2019 after the RWC.
If Toner were to be selected for the Lions - a distinct possibility - he will be unavailable for a large chunk of the first half of next season'. Offering Triggs another deal, is making your second row bed and lying in it until post RWC19.

A solution might be to offer Triggs a short term extension but then you run the risk of him acquiring a longer contract and more certainty elsewhere.

An interesting stat as regards 2nd rows, is that the average age of a European Cup winning starting 2nd row is/was 29.5 years. That stat is a couple of years old but is surely relevant when considering any signings. Saracens last season may have slightly skewed that stat but nonetheless food for thought.
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Re: How many NIQ's next season?

Postby neiliog93 » January 17th, 2017, 12:42 pm

If Triggs got a 2 year contract, he'd be nearly 38 by the end of it, no way he's getting two years. I agree with the other posters, if we can't bring in a genuinely top class second row (or at least close to it, i.e Kane Douglas in RWC 2015 form) our best option is to give Triggs another year. He's been more than solid this season amidst personal grief and seems to contribute a lot to the 'culture'.
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Re: How many NIQ's next season?

Postby goreyguy » January 17th, 2017, 12:45 pm

Triggs for another year, to give time for Ryan to get upto speed next season.

Will we resign Nagle/Kearney?

have to assume McCarthy is gone.
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Re: How many NIQ's next season?

Postby BlueWheels » January 17th, 2017, 1:27 pm

Logorrhea wrote:Nacewa is a no brainer. He's playing as well as ever so its all about whether he wants to keep going or not.



Hope he wants to continue playing and we're allowed to keep him ...... If not, suggest that we sign him as skill coach!!
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Re: How many NIQ's next season?

Postby Flash Gordon » January 17th, 2017, 1:31 pm

Isa continues to be an incredibly potent attacking force and he looks in great nick so would absolutely try to keep him - particularly as he covers most positions and given the relative inexperience in our backline. I'd probably ditch Triggs and Zane and go full out for a top notch lock - I'd imagine that being none Irish qualified wouldn't be an issue. Neither Zane nor Triggs have the quality required to win a European Cup in my opinion - albeit that Triggs is having a better season than I expected......
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Re: How many NIQ's next season?

Postby Oldschool » January 17th, 2017, 3:03 pm

neiliog93 wrote:If Triggs got a 2 year contract, he'd be nearly 38 by the end of it, no way he's getting two years. I agree with the other posters, if we can't bring in a genuinely top class second row (or at least close to it, i.e Kane Douglas in RWC 2015 form) our best option is to give Triggs another year. He's been more than solid this season amidst personal grief and seems to contribute a lot to the 'culture'.

Give Triggs another year.
1. He's been very committed.
2. Has great skills
3. He's the perfect role model for the youngsters coming thru.
4. Compassionate grounds.
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Re: How many NIQ's next season?

Postby Ruckedtobits » January 17th, 2017, 4:15 pm

Or, Don't give Triggs another year for the same 4 reasons, on grounds that he should go at the top of his game. We have Kearney and Ryan coming through and Nagle to cover AI and 6N period. That's enough.
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Re: How many NIQ's next season?

Postby cormac » January 17th, 2017, 4:29 pm

If it was up to me (and perhaps it's just as well that it isn't), I'd have been floating the idea to some of the New Zealand squad of a one-year post-Lions pre-RWC19 sabbatical up in Dublin. A Rocky Elsom style deal. A chance to earn some decent wedge, a tie-in for extra cash with some local businesses, and back in time to nail down a spot with the AB squad for the three-in-a-row attempt in Japan in 2019.

I'm sure Brodie Rettallick or Julian Savea would jump at the chance. *

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Re: How many NIQ's next season?

Postby neiliog93 » January 17th, 2017, 5:13 pm

Ruckedtobits wrote:Or, Don't give Triggs another year for the same 4 reasons, on grounds that he should go at the top of his game. We have Kearney and Ryan coming through and Nagle to cover AI and 6N period. That's enough.


No it isn't, because the above aren't good enough (yet, anyway). They can't even make the bench when fully fit - Leo's even made Ruddock cover lock to avoid selecting them. Triggs is a good lad but at the end of the day he's a 35 yr old journeyman army mechanic. And he's still better than them. James Ryan has the most potential of any of our second rows but he's 20. If we want to win a European Cup next season, we're going to need an NIQ second row of a good standard.
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Re: How many NIQ's next season?

Postby leinsterforever » January 17th, 2017, 9:49 pm

What I'd do is give Triggs a one year extension if Muldowney can't be signed.

Think we need a fullback as well, so sign Isa for another season. If he wants to finish up then maybe another NIQ could be sourced. I've mentioned Matt Proctor and James Marshall in the past as guys that might be worth having a look at.

I think the squad is strong everywhere else
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Re: How many NIQ's next season?

Postby Ruckedtobits » January 17th, 2017, 11:12 pm

We need another lock who can scrum, jump, maul, tackle and pass. He must also be minimum 6' 7"" and weight north of 112kg and be capable of quickly moving laterally in defensive line which is one area that Triggs apparently scores heavily within Leinster competition.

If we play a high-tempo game, both offensively and defensively, all of the above components are vital.
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Molony, IMO, possibly misses out on only one of the above criteria and only marginally. Ryan, when he returns next Season will fulfill them all and, based on his career to date, will have the equivalent impact that Henderson had making his debut, aged 20, in International senior rugby.

Mike Kearney has the size and skill set outlined above and was in the match-day group of 28 togged for last Friday who completed the warm-up. His absense from any starting opportunities since the beginning of November has surprised many, including this punter. But Leo's decisions to hold guys back until they hit the standards he requires have been proven correct this Season on a couple of occasions and maybe this will be another such instance. The surprise in his case stems partially from his selection against Montpellier away in ERC 2, in which we collected an invaluable away LBP.

Ian Nagle is the final candidate who has disappeared into the undergrowth of A team selections. Perhaps the unanticipated loss in Llanneli (A) may have had a deeper impact than outsiders recognise for Nagle.

Que sera, sera. but second-row would not be on my NIQ shopping list just now for seasons 2017-18-19.
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Re: How many NIQ's next season?

Postby jezzer » January 18th, 2017, 9:47 am

Molony doesn't have enough power yet, to my eyes. Given he's also a bit shorter it's not a great combo until he can up his scrummaging and maul work.
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Re: How many NIQ's next season?

Postby goreyguy » January 18th, 2017, 9:58 am

Ruckedtobits wrote:We need another lock who can scrum, jump, maul, tackle and pass. He must also be minimum 6' 7"" and weight north of 112kg and be capable of quickly moving laterally in defensive line which is one area that Triggs apparently scores heavily within Leinster competition.

If we play a high-tempo game, both offensively and defensively, all of the above components are vital.
A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.


Molony, IMO, possibly misses out on only one of the above criteria and only marginally. Ryan, when he returns next Season will fulfill them all and, based on his career to date, will have the equivalent impact that Henderson had making his debut, aged 20, in International senior rugby.

Mike Kearney has the size and skill set outlined above and was in the match-day group of 28 togged for last Friday who completed the warm-up. His absense from any starting opportunities since the beginning of November has surprised many, including this punter. But Leo's decisions to hold guys back until they hit the standards he requires have been proven correct this Season on a couple of occasions and maybe this will be another such instance. The surprise in his case stems partially from his selection against Montpellier away in ERC 2, in which we collected an invaluable away LBP.

Ian Nagle is the final candidate who has disappeared into the undergrowth of A team selections. Perhaps the unanticipated loss in Llanneli (A) may have had a deeper impact than outsiders recognise for Nagle.

Que sera, sera. but second-row would not be on my NIQ shopping list just now for seasons 2017-18-19.


Mike Kearney is 6'5, so he doesn't have the size you outlined above. Also I'd question if he has the skillset outlined.
Ross Molony is also 6'5, but so far hasn't shown the power needed in the scrum/maul.

Both are flawed options right now at european level. With Molony having greater potential to succeed down the line IMO.

Nagle is a passenger, Leinster would be better off with Tadhg Beirne, surprisingly.

Ryan is our best hope. His hamstring injury was not as bad as reported, so hopefully he is ready to go at the start of the season and hits the ground running.
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