Leinster Senior Squad 2017/2018

[neiliog93]

Assume this means that the chances of Kirchner getting a new deal are reduced.

*Shudders*. Not gonna happen.

[goreyguy]

Assume this means that the chances of Kirchner getting a new deal are reduced.

him staying might be the best we can ask for in terms of NIQ signings.

[UlsterMan]

Don't mean to antagonise in any way, but how is this any different to Pienaar.

Pienaar is supposedly holding back Paul Marshall and Dave Shanahan, neither of whom are even on the radar of the Ireland set-up. Cooney wouldn't have been signed if Pienaar was staying.

Nacewa is in the same position as Rob and Dave Kearney, Adam Byrne, Fergus McFadden and the rapidly improving Rory O'Loughlin, all of whom are either in the Ireland squad more likely to get a call-up to the Ireland squad than either Marshall or Shanahan are.

I think Nacewa has been a fantastic servant for you, I really like him as a player and what I've heard about him as a person. But please forgive me for saying if Pienaar can't stay then I cannot agree that Nacewa should get an extension. Any argument you could make for keeping Nacewa you could probably apply to Pienaar too.

[goreyguy]

Don't mean to antagonise in any way, but how is this any different to Pienaar.

Pienaar is supposedly holding back Paul Marshall and Dave Shanahan, neither of whom are even on the radar of the Ireland set-up. Cooney wouldn't have been signed if Pienaar was staying.

Nacewa is in the same position as Rob and Dave Kearney, Adam Byrne, Fergus McFadden and the rapidly improving Rory O'Loughlin, all of whom are either in the Ireland squad more likely to get a call-up to the Ireland squad than either Marshall or Shanahan are.

I think Nacewa has been a fantastic servant for you, I really like him as a player and what I've heard about him as a person. But please forgive me for saying if Pienaar can't stay then I cannot agree that Nacewa should get an extension. Any argument you could make for keeping Nacewa you could probably apply to Pienaar too.

Pienaar plays in a position where 4 players every pro 12 weekend, Nacewa plays in a position where 12 players start every pro 12 weekend.

[jimbobjoe]

Don't mean to antagonise in any way, but how is this any different to Pienaar.

Pienaar is supposedly holding back Paul Marshall and Dave Shanahan, neither of whom are even on the radar of the Ireland set-up. Cooney wouldn't have been signed if Pienaar was staying.

Nacewa is in the same position as Rob and Dave Kearney, Adam Byrne, Fergus McFadden and the rapidly improving Rory O'Loughlin, all of whom are either in the Ireland squad more likely to get a call-up to the Ireland squad than either Marshall or Shanahan are.

I think Nacewa has been a fantastic servant for you, I really like him as a player and what I've heard about him as a person. But please forgive me for saying if Pienaar can't stay then I cannot agree that Nacewa should get an extension. Any argument you could make for keeping Nacewa you could probably apply to Pienaar too.

What's so hard to understand about this? 1 position vs 3 in a starting lineup. Marshall and Shanahan aren't on the radar and that's the problem - Ulster haven't tried to get an IQ player on the radar in that position in Pienaar's time. The Leinster players you mention above get/are getting enough gametime to put them in the frame for intl selection. Cooney will get regular selection for Ulster and be an option for Ireland and therefore is better value than Pienaar.

[wixfjord]

UlsterMan, you've just inadvertently argued against yourself by saying that Leinster are bringing through outside backs and Ulster are not bringing through Irish 9s. That's why Pienaar was let go.

[paddyor]

Don't mean to antagonise in any way, but how is this any different to Pienaar.

Pienaar is supposedly holding back Paul Marshall and Dave Shanahan, neither of whom are even on the radar of the Ireland set-up. Cooney wouldn't have been signed if Pienaar was staying.

Nacewa is in the same position as Rob and Dave Kearney, Adam Byrne, Fergus McFadden and the rapidly improving Rory O'Loughlin, all of whom are either in the Ireland squad more likely to get a call-up to the Ireland squad than either Marshall or Shanahan are.

I think Nacewa has been a fantastic servant for you, I really like him as a player and what I've heard about him as a person. But please forgive me for saying if Pienaar can't stay then I cannot agree that Nacewa should get an extension. Any argument you could make for keeping Nacewa you could probably apply to Pienaar too.

The bolded have been capped regularly over the last few years when fit and earned their first caps when Isa was playing for leinster in his first stint. He never held up their development in anyway. The other 2 have gotten loads of gametime this season so he's not holding up their development in anyway.

And FYI the Piennar situation isn't the first of it's kind. Hines and White were both forced out of Leinster when the NIQ rules came in.

[alanair]

Apart from Mr Nucifora, I really dont think that supporters from any of the other Provinces, would object to Pineaar staying on

[ChrisUppy]

I see Mr UlsterMan seems to be forgetting that at a time when Pienaar's contract was being renewed, Nacewa was forced into early retirement by the NIQ laws. I don't remember him (or any other Ulster fans) complaining about them at that time.

[goreyguy]

I see Mr UlsterMan seems to be forgetting that at a time when Pienaar's contract was being renewed, Nacewa was forced into early retirement by the NIQ laws. I don't remember him (or any other Ulster fans) complaining about them at that time.

he retired due to his arm

[ChrisUppy]

I see Mr UlsterMan seems to be forgetting that at a time when Pienaar's contract was being renewed, Nacewa was forced into early retirement by the NIQ laws. I don't remember him (or any other Ulster fans) complaining about them at that time.

he retired due to his arm

That's not true:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/g ... 76274.html

One of Irish rugby's finest imports, the exigencies of the IRFU's player succession plan forced him to leave Leinster last season at aged just 30.

""You can't dwell on any of that situation with me having to leave. I'm not bitter about any of it. I had five successful seasons at Leinster which nobody can take away from me."

[paddyor]

I see Mr UlsterMan seems to be forgetting that at a time when Pienaar's contract was being renewed, Nacewa was forced into early retirement by the NIQ laws. I don't remember him (or any other Ulster fans) complaining about them at that time.

he retired due to his arm

That's not true:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/g ... 76274.html

One of Irish rugby's finest imports, the exigencies of the IRFU's player succession plan forced him to leave Leinster last season at aged just 30.

""You can't dwell on any of that situation with me having to leave. I'm not bitter about any of it. I had five successful seasons at Leinster which nobody can take away from me."

No, he retired from playing because his arm so bad. Went on to work as "MENTAL SKILLZ" coach in Auckland blues IIRC. Then after a few years the arm healed and he came back playing. At his age he was unlikely to get SR contract in NZ.

[Dave Cahill]

He still had a year left on his contract IIRC when he retired originally

[leinsterforever]

Don't mean to antagonise in any way, but how is this any different to Pienaar.

Pienaar is supposedly holding back Paul Marshall and Dave Shanahan, neither of whom are even on the radar of the Ireland set-up. Cooney wouldn't have been signed if Pienaar was staying.

Nacewa is in the same position as Rob and Dave Kearney, Adam Byrne, Fergus McFadden and the rapidly improving Rory O'Loughlin, all of whom are either in the Ireland squad more likely to get a call-up to the Ireland squad than either Marshall or Shanahan are.

I think Nacewa has been a fantastic servant for you, I really like him as a player and what I've heard about him as a person. But please forgive me for saying if Pienaar can't stay then I cannot agree that Nacewa should get an extension. Any argument you could make for keeping Nacewa you could probably apply to Pienaar too.

Leinster have/will have fewer NIQs in total than Ulster, which probably meant there was a bit more leeway from HQ to re-sign Nacewa than in the Pienaar situation. I'm assuming Kirchner won't be staying on and the IRFU are happy with the added gametime opportunities this will provide for IQ players

[simonokeeffe]

Isa may well not be in our first XV next season on top of all the other back 3 internationals we have supplied the last 2 seasons

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Don't get that kind of argument I have to say. "If Pienaar can't stay then I cannot agree that Nacewa should get an extension"...just because you feel wronged about Pienaar doesn't mean everyone else should suffer too. I think Pienaar should have been allowed to stay, but I don't want Leinster to suffer just because he didn't.

[Ruckedtobits]

Pienaar: Continuous presence over 5 seasons with no emergence of indigenous successor.

Nacewa: Interrupted contract after five years, two seasons absence, four(six) Leinster back three players capped during his contracts in Leinster - R Kearney (G Dempsey), D Kearney (S Horgan), F McFadden (L Fitzgerald). Three more young, back-three prospects emerging at present: A Byrne, B Daly, R O'Loughlin.

Hard to see the similarites.

[Peg Leg]

I'm hoping the reasoning is succession planning i.e. 1 part player 1 part coaching. His remit could be - mental skillz, added sass and the manipulation of Newton's laws of force and motion

[Jonny tight lips]

I've no issue with Nacewa signing but I'd ask what's difference between him extending and Pienaar.
I'm guessing you may see Ruan stay.
Good to see Nacewa stay though. A class act and though he's 34 those retirement years may have bought him longer career

The difference is that leinster currently provide the national set up its starting Fullback and 3 viable options on the wings DK, FMCF who have been capped and AB who is having a great season and is pushing for inclusion. There is also a case for ROL but I don't want to push it. Ulster on the other hand have provided no scrum halves to the national set up in several years and don't currently have a viable option at that position but sure you know all this and your only havin an auld poke so ill return the favor

Id like to ask what's the difference between 4+1and 9 cause apparently they are the same thing these days

[Jonny tight lips]

Don't mean to antagonise in any way, but how is this any different to Pienaar.

Pienaar is supposedly holding back Paul Marshall and Dave Shanahan, neither of whom are even on the radar of the Ireland set-up. Cooney wouldn't have been signed if Pienaar was staying.

Nacewa is in the same position as Rob and Dave Kearney, Adam Byrne, Fergus McFadden and the rapidly improving Rory O'Loughlin, all of whom are either in the Ireland squad more likely to get a call-up to the Ireland squad than either Marshall or Shanahan are.

I think Nacewa has been a fantastic servant for you, I really like him as a player and what I've heard about him as a person. But please forgive me for saying if Pienaar can't stay then I cannot agree that Nacewa should get an extension. Any argument you could make for keeping Nacewa you could probably apply to Pienaar too.

The difference is that if Ireland need a scrum half you guys cant help them out, if they need a fullback we already supply the starting player for the Irish team, if they need a winger we have 4 viable options. By the fact that we have these options available to the national team they have no problem with us. If you guys could balance having Pienaar and provide a viable option for Ireland at 9 there would be no problem I imagine. At 9 we currently have an option and balance that with an NIQ so no problem