James Lowe signs for Leinster

[leinster10]

Yea.

Two really exciting signings. Quality players. About bleeding time.

If the qualifying period is extended, by no means certain btw, then it will be accompanied by a grandfather exemption for players currently under contract

Yeah it would be a legal minefield for the administrators to try to enforce the 5 year period on any players contracted under the old rules. They could try it, but they wont.

If they make a rule change to 5 years I would presume it will be effective from the start of all contracts after that date which would include lowe's contract

[LeRouxIsPHat]

If you contract for three years in an environment where three years is the qualifying period then it is reasonable to expect to be qualified after a period of three years. There are literally 100s of examples of this type of thing in professional sport ranging from spitballs to Bayer Leverkusen. If the qualifying period is extended, by no means certain btw, then it will be accompanied by a grandfather exemption for players currently under contract (never mind a loophole that will allow the tier one countries do an end around it somehow)

Given that there's going to be a backlash/opposition to it I would imagine there'll be some concessions anyway. So Philip Browne might start ranting and raving but then say "but if you let us have James Lowe we'll calm down".

I think it'd be nuts to make any immediate changes anyway though. I also think that changing the rule is the wrong way to go about things but that's another story.

[the spoofer]

Is it possible that he is IQ with a surname like Lowe?

Good few of them around Leitrim.

[cwebber82]

I think McFadden could be in danger. Hasn't be great in the last 2 seasons and has made some bad defensive errors and looks to be trying too hard.

Continues to give his all and is ultra competitive as he showed at the breakdown against the Scarlets but has got to be under real pressure now to hold onto a squad place.

Was thinking the same, his contract is up in the summer

Jaysis I hope McFadden isn't let move on. McFadden is a diamond.

[Golf Man]

If you contract for three years in an environment where three years is the qualifying period then it is reasonable to expect to be qualified after a period of three years. There are literally 100s of examples of this type of thing in professional sport ranging from spitballs to Bayer Leverkusen. If the qualifying period is extended, by no means certain btw, then it will be accompanied by a grandfather exemption for players currently under contract (never mind a loophole that will allow the tier one countries do an end around it somehow)

Out of interest what are the examples? I'm pretty sure that when FIFA changed residency rules in 2008 from 2 years to 5, that they didn't give exemptions for people who had signed contracts. Residency isn't used as much in soccer but its relevant (tends to more grandparents)

Also the point remains - it is reasonable to expect to be qualified, but not sure its reasonable to expect anything more than that (especially if you don't have a contract to be playing post qualfication)

For example - Bundee Aki sigend for Connacht in 2014, becomes residency qualified in October 2017 and has a contract to remain with Connacht until 2020 - he has reasonable expectations
James Lowe will start his residency in October or November 2017 and will have a 3 year contract - does he have a reasonable expectation of international rugby/contract in October 2020 at the end of his contract? - and in his case given that we know that there is a fair chance the rule is going to change then not sure he will be protected

I'm really not sure that people who haven't even started their residency shoudl or will be protected in any changes to be honest with you

I'm interested in the examples, because I don't think its quite as simple as you make out

[wixfjord]

Fantastic signing. I'm really surprised IRFU would allow this tbh, but from a Leinster POV it's brilliant, and exactly the type of player profile we should be looking at.
Fardy & Lowe is a serious upgrade on Triggs & Kirchner, as good as the latter are playing recently.

[curates_egg]

Is it possible that he is IQ with a surname like Lowe?

Good few of them around Leitrim.

If he lasts that long, we can wait for the jokes about his sub-par intelligence quotient.

...I'll get my coat. That's twice on one thread.

[johng]

If someone signs a contract with the "IRFU" and then "World Rugby" changes the rules how is that controllable by the IRFU? I'm sure there would be grounds for some kind of litigation but would the IRFU or the player bother?

[LeRouxIsPHat]

If someone signs a contract with the "IRFU" and then "World Rugby" changes the rules how is that controllable by the IRFU? I'm sure there would be grounds for some kind of litigation but would the IRFU or the player bother?

Maybe not the IRFU for one player, but several unions for loads of players would surely lead to a compromise?

[fourthirtythree]

If someone signs a contract with the "IRFU" and then "World Rugby" changes the rules how is that controllable by the IRFU? I'm sure there would be grounds for some kind of litigation but would the IRFU or the player bother?

Yeah, I don't think it's as clear cut as Dave says. The question of what is "legitimate expectation" in the context of a contract where the contracting body does not set the regulations is litigable but not certain.

That said, for practical reasons, it's quite likely that world rugby would wish to avoid the whole issue by making their regulation change applicable on those who sign contracts after the regulation change. But I don't think they have to. They are entitled to set policy.

[Dave Cahill]

If you contract for three years in an environment where three years is the qualifying period then it is reasonable to expect to be qualified after a period of three years. There are literally 100s of examples of this type of thing in professional sport ranging from spitballs to Bayer Leverkusen. If the qualifying period is extended, by no means certain btw, then it will be accompanied by a grandfather exemption for players currently under contract (never mind a loophole that will allow the tier one countries do an end around it somehow)

Out of interest what are the examples? I'm pretty sure that when FIFA changed residency rules in 2008 from 2 years to 5, that they didn't give exemptions for people who had signed contracts. Residency isn't used as much in soccer but its relevant (tends to more grandparents)

Also the point remains - it is reasonable to expect to be qualified, but not sure its reasonable to expect anything more than that (especially if you don't have a contract to be playing post qualfication)

For example - Bundee Aki sigend for Connacht in 2014, becomes residency qualified in October 2017 and has a contract to remain with Connacht until 2020 - he has reasonable expectations
James Lowe will start his residency in October or November 2017 and will have a 3 year contract - does he have a reasonable expectation of international rugby/contract in October 2020 at the end of his contract? - and in his case given that we know that there is a fair chance the rule is going to change then not sure he will be protected

I'm really not sure that people who haven't even started their residency shoudl or will be protected in any changes to be honest with you

I'm interested in the examples, because I don't think its quite as simple as you make out

Spitballs, Bayer Leverkusen, 42, Keith Gleeson and many many others - there are literally 1000s of examples across 100s of sports. Making an ex post facto change to a regulatory environment is very difficult (e.g. in Ireland its unconstitutional in both criminal and civil law)

[deco]

Great signing, I expect the payoff is an agreement to encourage a few promising squad players to move to the lesser provinces.

[Dave Cahill]

Great signing, I expect the payoff is an agreement to encourage a few promising squad players to move to the lesser provinces.

That'd be somewhat counterproductive no?

[fourthirtythree]

(e.g. in Ireland its unconstitutional in both criminal and civil law)

Amazingly this is not actually true and it has been appealed (from multiple juridictions) to the ECHR. I refer you to the Holy Monasteries v Greece case and the associated jurisprudence. It's been a while but I remember reading a Dutch ship compensation case, a Finnish pension fund (and at least one Irish case featuring a prominant businessman) etc. Predominantly these apply to tax but the point remains: you can actually make legislation with significant commercial impact retrospective in its effect. Even if this is prima facie unconstitutional. Let alone litigating whether the legitimate expectation in this hypothetical case was in fact legitimate. Which it may or may not be (insert shrug emoji here).

[goreyguy]

Great signing, I expect the payoff is an agreement to encourage a few promising squad players to move to the lesser provinces.

wouldnt be a fair trade.

Leinsters greatest strength is our depth and talent development, weakening that would be terrible idea.

[johng]

Great signing, I expect the payoff is an agreement to encourage a few promising squad players to move to the lesser provinces.

That'd be somewhat counterproductive no?

Don't mind him. He's just channeling the inner Ross OCK from his signature.

[bluemagic]

Ridiculous strength in depth next year


15:Lowe
14:Byrne
13:Ringrose
12:Henshaw
11:Nacewa
10:Sexton
9:McGrath
8:Conan
7:VDF
6:SOB
5:Toner
4:Fardy
3:Furlong
2:Cronin
1:McGrath

16:Tracey
17:Healy
18:Bent
19:Ruddock
20: Leavy
21:JGP
22:Carbery
23:ROL

*Significant Players Excluded:*

Forwards: Heaslip, Murphy, Moloney, James Ryan, Porter

Backs: Ross Byrne, McFadden, Dave Kearney, Rob Kearney, Noel Reid, larmour

[leinsterforever]

Lowe's a fine player, and somebody who I've suggested Leinster should have a look at in the past, but I'm not sure this signing makes sense now given Rory O'Loughlin's emergence and trajectory. It's a bit surprising Nucifora allowed it with the number of talented underage wingers queuing up to get gametime. How's a Keenan or a Larmour supposed to make a breakthrough?

Does Lowe play anywhere other than 11?

[simonokeeffe]

Lowe has played a good bit at 15

ROL is primarily a 13 though and loads of gametime for him with Henrose away a lot and ROL could well start ahead of Reid (with Ringrose at 12) were Henshaw to be injured

[fourthirtythree]

ROL, like Ringrose, gets a few games as winger. I think however that ROL has shown a greater aptitude for the role.

Or more simply, he's faster, which is a bigger deal for a winger.