Leinster v Cardiff Sat 3PM TG4/Sky Sports

[johng]

Yeah the one with the lads roaring is dreadful.

I liked it.

[Dave Cahill]

Yeah the one with the lads roaring is dreadful.

I liked it.

Yeah, thought it was clever - liked the Fuel the Fourth one as well.

[johng]

PS Playing extremely loud shouty ads to advertise the Wasps game at regular intervals was, well, very annoying. It was really loud and quite unsettling.

Don't EVER sit in front of Roboprop at a game. (Or even me)

[cormac]

It's not like the product on the field isn't top notch either

Losing a few thousand season ticket holders over the last few seasons hasn't helped.

We haven't really. Last year we had just shy of 12000 season ticket holders, and iirc the max amount we can sell is in the high 12,000s

The biggest problem is that, not unlike the playing and coaching side, there has been a huge turnover of non-playing staff, including the entire Marketing and Communications departments. Its harder for them now too - their predecessors had a blank page and no expectations - the new folks have to deal with their predecessors track record in a more difficult climate

Really? They used to be fairly proactive in releasing the numbers of season tickets sold. Maybe not the exact amount, but a "more than 10,000 season tickets sold" spiel in one of their tweets or e-mails. Haven't noticed any of those in the last couple of seasons so assumed the number of season tickets sold had dropped since their heyday.

[The Doc]

... and iirc the max amount we can sell is in the high 12,000s

I was trying to remember this - I thought it was just under 14k (75% of capacity). Or maybe 14.5k if the extended capacity. I only really remember one year when they were close to it

[Dave Cahill]

... and iirc the max amount we can sell is in the high 12,000s

I was trying to remember this - I thought it was just under 14k (75% of capacity). Or maybe 14.5k if the extended capacity. I only really remember one year when they were close to it

Available capacity and actual capacity aren't the same thing. You have to take the corporate, sponsors, team allocation, committee allocations and all those overheads out first, then you have your available capacity. You then work your quotas etc off that figure

I'm pretty certain the number is 12.7 or 12.8K though for some reason the figure of 13.5 is banging around inside my head - blue members perhaps, i dunno.

https://web-beta.archive.org/web/201203 ... m/4591.php would appear to bear that out

[hugonaut]

... and iirc the max amount we can sell is in the high 12,000s

I was trying to remember this - I thought it was just under 14k (75% of capacity). Or maybe 14.5k if the extended capacity. I only really remember one year when they were close to it

I think Dave is right on this one. I have the figure of 12800 as the max. season ticket number in my head.

From what I have heard discussed, Mick Dawson is insistent that there is a significant number of tickets available to be bought by John Q. Everyman/Jenny Q. Everywoman for each game. In terms of growing support it makes loads of sense. There's no point pretending that we're Liverpool, massively over-subscribed with a years-long waiting list.

[ronk]

Lag is a factor with crowds. A few years without European trophies, without stars like BOD and with relatively dreary rugby store up problems. Signings have been modest and we lost 3 internationals to overseas last season while not even coming close to getting out of our group. Fans don't stop coming immediately and they don't show up again in 2 weeks once they've stopped.

A few run cricket scores against teams during the 6N could seem like opposition not trying, to anyone half watching.

Looks like this match got caught between a few things that made it less attractive.

[Flash Gordon]

It's not like the product on the field isn't top notch either

Losing a few thousand season ticket holders over the last few seasons hasn't helped.

We haven't really. Last year we had just shy of 12000 season ticket holders, and iirc the max amount we can sell is in the high 12,000s

The biggest problem is that, not unlike the playing and coaching side, there has been a huge turnover of non-playing staff, including the entire Marketing and Communications departments. Its harder for them now too - their predecessors had a blank page and no expectations - the new folks have to deal with their predecessors track record in a more difficult climate

I think the size of the marketing budget has had an impact on the effectiveness and of course the marketing and commercial team. We need to be careful we don't use ALL our funding on wages and forget to communicate. Brands don't grow on loyalty, so if we don't get new fans through the gate we'll continue to decline.

[curates_egg]

Losing a few thousand season ticket holders over the last few seasons hasn't helped.

We haven't really. Last year we had just shy of 12000 season ticket holders, and iirc the max amount we can sell is in the high 12,000s

The biggest problem is that, not unlike the playing and coaching side, there has been a huge turnover of non-playing staff, including the entire Marketing and Communications departments. Its harder for them now too - their predecessors had a blank page and no expectations - the new folks have to deal with their predecessors track record in a more difficult climate

I think the size of the marketing budget has had an impact on the effectiveness and of course the marketing and commercial team. We need to be careful we don't use ALL our funding on wages and forget to communicate. Brands don't grow on loyalty, so if we don't get new fans through the gate we'll continue to decline.

I don't notice nearly as many creative ideas to shift tickets as in the past. Saturday was a perfect example.
You could easily have thought of some promo, whereby punters who were at the Ireland Wales game could get a discount. Or it could have been plugged on social media, some cheap ads on Welsh football news sites etc.
Ditto with mother's day. Bring a mum along for half price; something for the kids so moms will want to come.
I work in PR, rather than marketing, but it's not rocket science and the type of stuff that was done in the past.

It doesn't get round the fundamental problem of overpriced tickets but it would get bums on seats.

[curates_egg]

PS Playing extremely loud shouty ads to advertise the Wasps game at regular intervals was, well, very annoying. It was really loud and quite unsettling.

Don't EVER sit in front of Roboprop at a game. (Or even me)

I'm pretty loud and uncouth myself. I don't know what it was: the base or something, but it nearly gave me a heart attack the first time.

[Grumpy Old Man]

Not a fan of the shouty season ticket ad. No subtlety or humour, just people pretending to look fierce. It's the Peter O'Mahony of season ticket ads.

[Dave Cahill]

Not a fan of the shouty season ticket ad. No subtlety or humour, just people pretending to look fierce. It's the Peter O'Mahony of season ticket ads.

Might be talking about different ads - I'm talking about the one with the players appearing to roar in slo-mo whilst a kind of drone sound plays increasing in pitch? No civvies involved.

[hugonaut]

It's not like the product on the field isn't top notch either

Losing a few thousand season ticket holders over the last few seasons hasn't helped.

We haven't really. Last year we had just shy of 12000 season ticket holders, and iirc the max amount we can sell is in the high 12,000s

The biggest problem is that, not unlike the playing and coaching side, there has been a huge turnover of non-playing staff, including the entire Marketing and Communications departments. Its harder for them now too - their predecessors had a blank page and no expectations - the new folks have to deal with their predecessors track record in a more difficult climate

Yeah, I think there are a good few factors involved. Casual fans like to see big names. Contributing so many players to the Irish squad hurts us on that front, because the player management system is conservative [to say the least]

We have played 24 games this season [13 of them at home], and if you think of the players who are [in my opinion] nailed on Lions, they hardly ever play league games in the RDS:
– McGrath [7+5, 554 mins - 4 home starts/1 home league start: vs Ulster],
- Furlong [8+3, 567 mins - 5 home starts/2 home league starts: vs Ospreys, vs Munster],
- Sexton [7+0, 389 mins - 4 home starts/3 home league starts: vs Ospreys, vs Munster, vs Zebre],
- Henshaw [9+0, 696 mins - 5 home starts/2 home league starts: vs Munster, vs Zebre]

The 50+ cap brigade, the guys who are household names [in rugby houses, anyway] have played a little more often at home, but still not very often at all

- Heaslip [10+2, 838 mins - 6 home starts/3 home league starts: vs Ospreys, vs Munster, vs Ulster]
- O'Brien [7+0, 420 mins - 5 home starts/3 home league starts: vs Connacht, vs Ulster, vs Zebre]
- Healy [10+5, 659 mins – 6 home starts/6 home league starts: vs Treviso, vs Ospreys, vs Munster, vs Connacht, vs Zebre, vs Cardiff]
- R. Kearney [6+3, 503 minutes - 3 home starts/2 home league starts: vs Treviso, vs Munster]
- Cronin [8+3, 522 mins – 6 home starts/4 home league starts: vs Ospreys, vs Munster, vs Connacht, vs Ulster]
- Ross [5+9, 482 mins – 2 home starts/2 home league starts: vs Connacht, vs Edinburgh]

Considering that the Munster home game is played in Lansdowne Road and had 40k+ at it, it's a bit of an oddity and attendance clearly isn't a problem. Attendances at the Connacht and Ulster games were both good, listed as 18200. But for the most part, our biggest names and best players have played once or twive at home in the league in the RDS. And we have played 9 league games there.

I think it's bad that more people aren't interested in the team ahead of the individuals who are selected, but that's just my opinion.

I think the fact is that the teams we are selecting at the moment are full of really talented young players who have practically no public image and don't generate any draw to the casual sports fan – in a couple of years time, I think the likes of Carberry, Adam Byrne, Ross Byrne, Rory O'Loughlin, Jack Conan, Dan Leavy, Andrew Porter, Luke McGrath etc. will prove to be a big draw, but at the moment they're just good young players who most people wouldn't recognise in the street. And they are the guys playing 7/8 out of 9 games in the RDS.

[Grumpy Old Man]

Not a fan of the shouty season ticket ad. No subtlety or humour, just people pretending to look fierce. It's the Peter O'Mahony of season ticket ads.

Might be talking about different ads - I'm talking about the one with the players appearing to roar in slo-mo whilst a kind of drone sound plays increasing in pitch? No civvies involved.

No, that's the one.

[riocard911]

Hugonaut wrote:

Yeah, I think there are a good few factors involved. Casual fans like to see big names. Contributing so many players to the Irish squad hurts us on that front, because the player management system is conservative [to say the least]

We have played 24 games this season [13 of them at home], and if you think of the players who are [in my opinion] nailed on Lions, they hardly ever play league games in the RDS:
– McGrath [7+5, 554 mins - 4 home starts/1 home league start: vs Ulster],
- Furlong [8+3, 567 mins - 5 home starts/2 home league starts: vs Ospreys, vs Munster],
- Sexton [7+0, 389 mins - 4 home starts/3 home league starts: vs Ospreys, vs Munster, vs Zebre],
- Henshaw [9+0, 696 mins - 5 home starts/2 home league starts: vs Munster, vs Zebre]

The 50+ cap brigade, the guys who are household names [in rugby houses, anyway] have played a little more often at home, but still not very often at all

- Heaslip [10+2, 838 mins - 6 home starts/3 home league starts: vs Ospreys, vs Munster, vs Ulster]
- O'Brien [7+0, 420 mins - 5 home starts/3 home league starts: vs Connacht, vs Ulster, vs Zebre]
- Healy [10+5, 659 mins – 6 home starts/6 home league starts: vs Treviso, vs Ospreys, vs Munster, vs Connacht, vs Zebre, vs Cardiff]
- R. Kearney [6+3, 503 minutes - 3 home starts/2 home league starts: vs Treviso, vs Munster]
- Cronin [8+3, 522 mins – 6 home starts/4 home league starts: vs Ospreys, vs Munster, vs Connacht, vs Ulster]
- Ross [5+9, 482 mins – 2 home starts/2 home league starts: vs Connacht, vs Edinburgh]

Considering that the Munster home game is played in Lansdowne Road and had 40k+ at it, it's a bit of an oddity and attendance clearly isn't a problem. Attendances at the Connacht and Ulster games were both good, listed as 18200. But for the most part, our biggest names and best players have played once or twive at home in the league in the RDS. And we have played 9 league games there.

I think it's bad that more people aren't interested in the team ahead of the individuals who are selected, but that's just my opinion.

I think the fact is that the teams we are selecting at the moment are full of really talented young players who have practically no public image and don't generate any draw to the casual sports fan – in a couple of years time, I think the likes of Carberry, Adam Byrne, Ross Byrne, Rory O'Loughlin, Jack Conan, Dan Leavy, Andrew Porter, Luke McGrath etc. will prove to be a big draw, but at the moment they're just good young players who most people wouldn't recognise in the street. And they are the guys playing 7/8 out of 9 games in the RDS.

***

Good points all, but they to my mind still don't explain how Ulster - with an inferior team and in a catchment area only half to a third as big as ours - can be regularly pulling 15,000 approx. while we're at 10.000 approx. They're doing something right, which we seem to be getting wrong. I wish someone could identify what it is and rectify it.

[johng]

PS Playing extremely loud shouty ads to advertise the Wasps game at regular intervals was, well, very annoying. It was really loud and quite unsettling.

Don't EVER sit in front of Roboprop at a game. (Or even me)

I'm pretty loud and uncouth myself. I don't know what it was: the base or something, but it nearly gave me a heart attack the first time.

Yeah. That's why I liked it. It really grabbed you straight away and demanded your attention. Subtlety and humour is for wimps.

[The Doc]

... and iirc the max amount we can sell is in the high 12,000s

I was trying to remember this - I thought it was just under 14k (75% of capacity). Or maybe 14.5k if the extended capacity. I only really remember one year when they were close to it

I think Dave is right on this one. I have the figure of 12800 as the max. season ticket number in my head.

From what I have heard discussed, Mick Dawson is insistent that there is a significant number of tickets available to be bought by John Q. Everyman/Jenny Q. Everywoman for each game. In terms of growing support it makes loads of sense. There's no point pretending that we're Liverpool, massively over-subscribed with a years-long waiting list.

Yeah... I saw something from another year quoting 14k... Probably rounding up. Think it must be low 13k

But that number is determined by required away allocations for European games. So it still leaves plenty of room for walk ups for most games.