EPCR SEMI-FINAL V CLERMONT

[MylesNaGapoleen]

First fifteen was baffling. Thought we had them when leavy got in. Chatting to clermont fans after the game and most thought they were lucky to win and unlikely they will beat sarries. Hope they do. Great fans by the way. Atmosphere in lyon and stadium was brilliant.

[msmx5]

Am I the only one who though that the grounding for the 1st Try (Yato) was dodgy?

Edit:
https://youtu.be/4Ckr4LE_MYg?t=10m21s

[riocard911]

Am I the only one who though that the grounding for the 1st Try (Yato) was dodgy?

No. Everybody bar the Clermont fans did. Nigel and the TMO checked the video angles and came to the decision that downward pressure had been applied to the ball.

[LeinsterLeader]

Am I the only one who though that the grounding for the 1st Try (Yato) was dodgy?

I thought so too but I seen a still last night (might be on Sportfile) and he definitely got downward pressure with his wrist.

If it had of been in Thomond and he was Rob Kearney he wouldn't have got it though

Edit:

You'd have to give them that, wouldn't ye?

[Golf Man]

Hard luck yesterday - a fair result imo and probably indicative of where Leinster are at atm - very good but a little bit off the top European level - great bones in that squad - simply cannot afford openings to games like that against the top opposition

I think sarries will win the final easily though, much as it would be great to see Clermont do it - they are simply too ruthless and don't really have a weak point

[Edna Kenny]

I was thinking of GT and the "ebb and flow of psychic energy" during the game. The Leavy incident took the wind out of us just when they had doubts creeping into their minds. I thought off the kick off too, they were clearly nervous, dropped the ball and if Isa had just delayed his hit we'd have been attacking from a lineout in their 22 (which we may well have made a balls of!). It's a painful learning experience but hopefully they'll remember what it takes. Panicking too early and trying to make things happen doesn't always work, we just needed to steady the ship, make some solid tackles and make the game boring for 10 minutes. You always get a purple patch in a semi final so it's a case of being patient until it comes, I thought the way they inched back in the second half was very impressive. Very proud of the team and hopefully they can put the disappointment behind them on Friday with a win against Glasgow.

[odyboody]

Am I the only one who though that the grounding for the 1st Try (Yato) was dodgy?

I thought so too but I seen a still last night (might be on Sportfile) and he definitely got downward pressure with his wrist.

If it had of been in Thomond and he was Rob Kearney he wouldn't have got it though

Thought it had to be controlled downward pressure. If its only the wrist then it has been lost forwards

[LeinsterLeader]

Am I the only one who though that the grounding for the 1st Try (Yato) was dodgy?

I thought so too but I seen a still last night (might be on Sportfile) and he definitely got downward pressure with his wrist.

If it had of been in Thomond and he was Rob Kearney he wouldn't have got it though

Thought it had to be controlled downward pressure. If its only the wrist then it has been lost forwards

Well if that is the laws then you might have a case (see picture above), however in hindsight I just think it was one one of those days were we weren't gonna get a big call like that from Ref/TMO. T'was in the stars! Hopefully the next day we'll get breaks

[BlueWheels]

Great effort to attempt to turn the game around but as many have said, the head start just gave us to much to do.

Atmosphere there was awesome but as I said at the time, I think that the decision to settle for the draw away to Castres, which meant we lost out on the home semi, has to questioned.

[Keith]

Great effort to attempt to turn the game around but as many have said, the head start just gave us to much to do.

Atmosphere there was awesome but as I said at the time, I think that the decision to settle for the draw away to Castres, which meant we lost out on the home semi, has to questioned.

We were lucky to get a draw in that game, cant really look back to that. We could have easily won that game, if you can take the sting out of the game in the first 20 minutes when playing in France you always have a good chance but those over throws in the lineout really put us under huge pressure.

[msmx5]

Well if that is the laws then you might have a case (see picture above), however in hindsight I just think it was one one of those days were we weren't gonna get a big call like that from Ref/TMO. T'was in the stars! Hopefully the next day we'll get breaks

https://youtu.be/4Ckr4LE_MYg?t=10m21s

Not much downward pressure at all here IMHO! Suppose he was diving on it & given benefit of the doubt, unlike Ollie Le Roux who clearly dropped it. A bit too much of a rub of the green to get disallowed tries in two consecutive knockout games .

[leinsterforever]

I thought the decision to go for a short 22 drop-out after Spedding's miss was a dubious call. Would it not have been better to belt it long, give it back to Clermont, and let them overthink and panic about what they should do in possession to close the game out? Although I suppose there was a spirit of being unafraid to try things out there, which worked well overall (running it from the 22, for example).

Also, why wasn't a forward pod with lifters put where they were kicking all their restarts to? They were able to put a lot of pressure on the Leinster catcher.

[hugonaut]

Was over there at the game and, while obviously disappointed, the better side on the day won a good game.

The penalty against Leavy was really frustrating – in fairness to the refereeing team, the touch judge called it early and they went back to look at what he had seen. It seemed in the stadium that they were looking for a reason not to give it, but when I watched the broadcast, it was clear that the officiating team were responding to the touch judge's call. It was a massive swing in play to go from +5/7 to -3 ... and the way J10 was kicking, more likely than not +7: a 10 point swing.

Just like the penalty against Henshaw for joining the maul against Wales, it's one that sticks in the craw because there's enough there to penalise, but it's also something [not joining a maul properly/holding on to a player at the back of a ruck] that happens in every game – usually multiple times – and isn't penalised. But there you go. It was a contentious call but not a wrong call. Just a tough one to take.

It's a seriously encouraging sign that we can go into such a tough game missing so many big names – Heaslip [95 caps], R. Kearney [76 caps], Healy [67 caps], O'Brien [49 caps] - and have their replacements, in every instance younger than them, step up to the mark. I remember going into the 2012 HEC final when Bossy was a late scratch from the bench and we had to call in John Cooney, and being absolutely strung out about it!

Rhys had a blinder at No6, really delighted for him. He made his debut for us so early and has played so many games [129] that it's easy to forget that he's still just 26. Jack Conan also did exceptionally well, especially in terms of carrying. Luke McGrath was given a tough time – lots of Clermont bodies on the wrong side, and he was absolutely monstered twice getting the ball away from lineouts, but I felt that he stuck in there brilliantly. Henshaw is obviously a beast [he would probably be my player of the year this year], and I thought that Ringrose was simply outstanding.

Joey Carberry backed up his performance against Wasps with a really impressive outing – at times during the second half, I was reminded of the classic Queensland State of Origin team with Lockyer, Thurston, Billy Slater and Cooper Kronk: none of them over 180cm or 90kg, all of them thriving at the highest level of RL through great skills, great understanding of the game, great toughness and genuine guile.

In any case, this competition is over for us this year. We have a home semi final in the league and the possibility of a final in Lansdowne Road. We're best served to park the what might have beens until the off season and get on with trying to get our hands on some silverware!

[curates_egg]

Joey Carberry backed up his performance against Wasps with a really impressive outing – at times during the second half, I was reminded of the classic Queensland State of Origin team with Lockyer, Thurston, Billy Slater and Cooper Kronk: none of them over 180cm or 90kg, all of them thriving at the highest level of RL through great skills, great understanding of the game, great toughness and genuine guile.

Thought he was outstanding going forward. Kept trying to make stuff happen for us and succeeding. He was our main source of spark in the first half.
His positional naievty in defence was well exploited by Clermont. They seemed to try and get Isa involved in niggle and drawn into rucks as much as possible (they kicked every kick-off to him almost), to take him out of the game. Very clever.

My take-away on him is that Carbery (et al) need to quickly decide what his position is. If it is fullback, and he is happy playing there, it is clear he still has a lot to learn.
Such an exciting player, so I hope and trust we will manage him well.

[OTT]

Can anyone tell me why this was not a definite yellow borderline red?

1:03:35



https://youtu.be/4Ckr4LE_MYg?t=3812

The dismissive way that it was dealt with as being the same as the Ruddock one, absolute bollixology.

Because Ringrose did not stay down and milk it (what Nige does not like) we got a measly panalty. At the very least it was worthy of a second look on the TMO.

[Dave Cahill]

Joey Carberry backed up his performance against Wasps with a really impressive outing – at times during the second half, I was reminded of the classic Queensland State of Origin team with Lockyer, Thurston, Billy Slater and Cooper Kronk: none of them over 180cm or 90kg, all of them thriving at the highest level of RL through great skills, great understanding of the game, great toughness and genuine guile.

He has a problem though in the way he uses his pace to get into position to watch high kicks land or be fielded beside him. His decision making isn't great in those situations - and because he's rushed up, theres a gaping hole in behind.

[Ruckedtobits]

Losing a semi-final is always a very tough day. Just remembered today, how much worse it is the day after as you pore over the entrails looking for explanations or justifications. Having attended every semi we have played, today's examination was perhaps the most heart-breaking for many reasons.

We won three of the four quarters on the scoreboard. We regained the momentum of the game three times. We quitened a raucous opposition support twice in the game. We eventually swung the officials to start watching them at the breakdown. And yet, we still lost.

Returning home immediately after an away European game is hard work, through deadlines to get buses, planes etc and queues for check-in, security, passports, baggage etc. When you've won, in the back of your mind is the motivation that no matter how tired, hungover or hungry you feel at the moment, when you recover sufficiently, the re-run will show that you've still won. The opposite position magnifies the loss in every aspect.

Watching the re-run today highlights one aspect which was not evident at first hand in match watch. On two occasions in the third quarter, the over-riding emotion at being awarded a kickable penalty was relief that it brought us closer to our opponents. However, the reality on both occasions was very different. Nigel had allowed play continue after his penalty award. In each instant we had won attacking breakdowns and the ball arrives with Triggs, moving left to right within 15 mtrs of Clermont line and with a least three players wide right and out-numbering their opponents by two and three respectively. On the first chance, a slightly lobbed ball would have seen any one of three Leinster players score. He delayed and was tackled and the chance was squandered. On the next opportunity, J10 was within 3 mtrs, slightly deep but with three men wide right, all five Leinstermen facing one Clermont player. Triggs drew the pass which became a dummy and the gilt-edged chance for seven points was lost.

Triggs played all through. Some of his passing and offloads were of the highest standard. But on these two he failed and just there was the difference in the result.

Clermont deserved to win. Not because they created more than we did but because they took their opportunities in clinical fashion. Lopez deserved his MOTM award, much as I despise the concept, because his execution of two drop goals and his try-reversed penalty, his first kick at goal, was taken with panache at a moment of high drama within the game.

No Leinster player let his team down. Isa was targeted very effectively in the first quarter. However, possibly only Parra and NZ player Smith have the vision and execution to give Strettle the opportunity to score from a triple-skip pass of pace and accuracy. Strettle finished in a manner that I hope Adam Byrne can copy time and again in the coming years.

Carbery, Ringrose and McGrath - Jack, gave us glimpses of the quick footwork under pressure which can create gaps from shadows in attack. Leavy and Luke McGrath showed how great reading of the game can enable the completion of vital tackles in defence, time and again. Ruddock and Conan showed both of these talents in two massive performances. Dev looked tired and less commanding than of late, which perhaps is the inevitable consequence of multiple 80-minute, tank emptying, displays since Christmas.

Yes, it's painful the morning after. Yes, J10 got it so right in his immediate post-match interview "The younger players expect they will have many more opportunities to win semi-finals in the future, but they must learn to take the chances to win when they are there". These are the harsh realities of a career at the top.

We have acquired the next such opportunity already and, despite their disappointment, our young heros must today re-focus their sights on two big games in the coming weeks, the semi-final, and hopefully, final of the Pro12. It is not a European trophy but it is their Season long quest for supremacy against their peers. Only by taking the chances you have earned, can you claim to be entitled to be winners. Champions are not necessarily the best teams. They are the best team on the day.

[OTT]

https://youtu.be/4Ckr4LE_MYg?t=5301

Devin Toner clearly held after the ruck. Where is the penalty.

First drop goal scored two rucks later......

Consistency would be nice.

(And not to forget the late tackle on Isa just before that)

[hugonaut]

Joey Carberry backed up his performance against Wasps with a really impressive outing – at times during the second half, I was reminded of the classic Queensland State of Origin team with Lockyer, Thurston, Billy Slater and Cooper Kronk: none of them over 180cm or 90kg, all of them thriving at the highest level of RL through great skills, great understanding of the game, great toughness and genuine guile.

He has a problem though in the way he uses his pace to get into position to watch high kicks land or be fielded beside him. His decision making isn't great in those situations - and because he's rushed up, theres a gaping hole in behind.

That's a very fair point Dave, I agree. In mitigation, he's such an unorthodox fullback in comparison to the traditional No15 in Irish rugby, and there is such a small sample size of him playing the position. At the moment I'm not sure if it's the cost of business for doing things so differently or if the positioning will simply sort itself out the more he plays there.

[Logorrhea]

Joey Carberry backed up his performance against Wasps with a really impressive outing

Thought he was poorly positioned in the first half and consistently vulnerable in under the high ball. Teams will definitely target him there going forward and if he doesn't learn to defend himself when receiving the high ones (he has to start jumping), he's going to get cut in two pretty soon.

He was quality with the ball though.