2017 -2018 Champions Cup Seeding

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Re: 2017 -2018 Champions Cup Seeding

Postby riocard911 » August 23rd, 2017, 5:34 pm

So when are we playing on the moon? Seems like it might be the only thing to resolve the ongoing discussion......
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Re: 2017 -2018 Champions Cup Seeding

Postby BlueBlue » August 23rd, 2017, 5:35 pm

Cathalsmart wrote:I've said what I needed to say, if you agree or not that's fine but when I'm right don't forget to give me credit.


You are Peter De Villiers

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Re: 2017 -2018 Champions Cup Seeding

Postby BlueBlue » August 23rd, 2017, 5:42 pm

Cathalsmart wrote:I dont know why I'm getting it in the neck on here, I thought our aim was to be the best club in Europe? If so then just look at Saracens, no loss in 2 season in Europe, that's the bench mark, that is what we should be aiming to be like. Ill leave it there as it seems most on here are trying to move the goalposts.


You do know the people on here are fans, we dont run or coach Leinster rugby. You do know that our personal thoughts have no shape make or bearing on how Leinster actually go about there business or set themselves up to win.

You do know your own thoughts are simply, well your own thoughts and not actual reality. You do know that, dont you.

You do know that the people who actually run Leinster, the players have show thay can win things, you do know that when we won 3 titles our goal was to win those finals and not go for the LBP in those finals, coz thats how you win things in finals.

You do know that Leinster's stated aim is to be the 1st team to win 5 European cups.
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Re: 2017 -2018 Champions Cup Seeding

Postby BlueBlue » August 23rd, 2017, 5:47 pm

Cathalsmart wrote:
neiliog93 wrote:Montpellier away is virtually impossible. They were good last and have a billionaire owner and have recruited well again. Glasgow have recruited well also and have Dave Rennie as coach - it's tough but doable, and Exeter as Prem champions is another very tricky task, but also probably doable. Nonetheless, three away defeats against those opposition would not be surprising. That's not defeatist, we're good enough to beat them and obviously should approach the games as such, but we do not have a divine right to have other elite clubs in Europe roll over and have their bellies tickled.



See there we go again, words like "impossible" used. If thats the case we are totally screwed as we won't beat Saracens or Clermont if we can't beat Montpellier. The bulk of our team beat the All Black's, I'm sure they would be good enough to beat a Montpellier side in transition...


You do know that neiliog93 (as much as he'd like to) wont actually be playing european rugby for Leinster, this season or probably any other season.
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Re: 2017 -2018 Champions Cup Seeding

Postby BlueBlue » August 23rd, 2017, 5:54 pm

riocard911 wrote:So when are we playing on the moon? Seems like it might be the only thing to resolve the ongoing discussion......


The nay sayers said going to South Africa to play would be hard, wait till the Pro14 is the 1st cross planet comp!
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Re: 2017 -2018 Champions Cup Seeding

Postby Peg Leg » August 23rd, 2017, 6:23 pm

riocard911 wrote:So when are we playing on the moon? Seems like it might be the only thing to resolve the ongoing discussion......
The atmosphere up there would be an improvement on the chritmas bonanza in d'Aviva
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Re: 2017 -2018 Champions Cup Seeding

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » August 23rd, 2017, 6:32 pm

:lol:
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Re: 2017 -2018 Champions Cup Seeding

Postby simonokeeffe » August 23rd, 2017, 6:42 pm

Peg Leg wrote:
riocard911 wrote:So when are we playing on the moon? Seems like it might be the only thing to resolve the ongoing discussion......
The atmosphere up there would be an improvement on the chritmas bonanza in d'Aviva


Ha

Just wait til James Lowe James Chariot is reverberating around the ground after it pees off the Munster fans (who write for the Indo)
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: 2017 -2018 Champions Cup Seeding

Postby Cathalsmart » August 23rd, 2017, 7:08 pm

BlueBlue wrote:
Cathalsmart wrote:I dont know why I'm getting it in the neck on here, I thought our aim was to be the best club in Europe? If so then just look at Saracens, no loss in 2 season in Europe, that's the bench mark, that is what we should be aiming to be like. Ill leave it there as it seems most on here are trying to move the goalposts.


You do know the people on here are fans, we dont run or coach Leinster rugby. You do know that our personal thoughts have no shape make or bearing on how Leinster actually go about there business or set themselves up to win.

You do know your own thoughts are simply, well your own thoughts and not actual reality. You do know that, dont you.

You do know that the people who actually run Leinster, the players have show thay can win things, you do know that when we won 3 titles our goal was to win those finals and not go for the LBP in those finals, coz thats how you win things in finals.

You do know that Leinster's stated aim is to be the 1st team to win 5 European cups.


It is my opinion that is 100% correct, if you and other Leinster fans want to keep your expectations nice and low and expect nothing more than a european semi final that's fine I won't knock you down as its your opinion but Ive set the bar a little higher like I should considering the talent we have.
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Re: 2017 -2018 Champions Cup Seeding

Postby Cathalsmart » August 23rd, 2017, 7:10 pm

johng wrote:
wixfjord wrote:
johng wrote:While I don't agree with all of Cathal's points.

A/ I don't think it's a bad thing for Leinster to aim high. You can be sure the team do.


Nobody is saying it is. This is a strawman.

johng wrote:
B/ I don't see why he is getting so much hate for having an opinion which is not completely insane (even if I don't agree with it.


A lot of what he is saying sort of is actually.
'Leinster are actively targeting a LBP instead of a win'.
'I predicted we would lose to Clermont in January'
'We threw away the game versus Clermont (like we all knew they would)'
'I remember being on here prior to the Wasps game and everyone was pretty much saying Wasps were overwhelming favourites'
'Most of our away wins have been against shite opposition'
'all they have to do is express themselves and the results will come'
'the want to win is obviously there but the desire isn't there'
'Always nervy for Irish teams on the road as it seems as if they almost always settle for a loss before kick off even happens so long as they get a LBP.'

There's a difference between an opinion and continuing to spout things that are objectively wrong and ridiculous.

2 or 3 of those are at least arguable. Why the heavy hands slapping the guy down? People flouncing out with harumphs. It's just a guys opinion. Disagree by all means (I do) but give him a break or even a bit of humour.


Exactly, Ive not insulted anyone on here personal or any of the player's (infact the opposite, all I've done is compliment them) its just an opinion which I don't think is crazy so no need to get all the knife's out.
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Re: 2017 -2018 Champions Cup Seeding

Postby Cathalsmart » August 23rd, 2017, 7:12 pm

wixfjord wrote:
Cathalsmart wrote:We threw away the game versus Clermont (like we all knew they would)



What does that even mean? You're talking complete nonsense.
We were underdogs going into that game, had a mare of a first 25, punched our way back into it and should've won but for Owens spotting Leavy's hold.

We didn't 'throw the game away'. Just because you lose doesn't mean you're throwing the game, just like if you lose and get a LBP you weren't 'going for the LBP'. That's illogical. It's outcome bias and scoreboard journalism at its finest.
And as for 'we all knew they would' that doesn't even make sense. We all believed we could win but hand on heart Clermont were favourites.

You said above that 'you knew they'd lose to Clermont' back in January before we'd even been drawn against Clermont though, so maybe you have some Nostradamus qualities?


You could see Leinster's path to the final because there was a draw, the instant I saw the draw I knew it would be another honourable defeat (alas Toulon 2015).
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Re: 2017 -2018 Champions Cup Seeding

Postby Ruckedtobits » August 23rd, 2017, 7:21 pm

Cathalsmart wrote:
neilinboston wrote:
Cathalsmart wrote:I dont know why I'm getting it in the neck on here, I thought our aim was to be the best club in Europe? If so then just look at Saracens, no loss in 2 season in Europe, that's the bench mark, that is what we should be aiming to be like. Ill leave it there as it seems most on here are trying to move the goalposts.

Didn't they achieve that by aiming to be like us in the first place? Therefore us emulating them is actually us emulating ourselves. Can we be more like ourselves, maybe turn the leinsterness to 11?

What we were when they were aiming to be like us isn't exactly what we are now, we have a young side but with a lot of talent and potential growth so we should aim to be the bench mark again.


I can see that this has been a fairly intense discussion and @Cathalsmart appears to be in a minority. However, I'm there alongside him in spirit and outlook about our prospects for this Season in Europe.

I firmly believe that if all our players have Leinster success as their total focus this season, when they have the Blue jersey on, there is no way that we should contemplate defeats in any of our three away games. Yes, we could get beaten in any one of them, but only if an opponent plays exceptionally well against us or, if we get an unfortunate injury on the day.

We now have a Squad of sufficient quality and depth in every position, even scrum half and second-row, to be able to produce high quality, high-tempo, performances against whoever our opponents select. We have players of the highest world quality sprinkled throughout the team but more importantly we have highly competent performers everywhere in the Squad.

We do need confidance and teamwork, and we must not be looking for any reasons why we might be defeated. Our mid-season target must be to go through our Pool undefeated, not merely qualified. I absolutely acknowledge that going to Clubs like Castres or Montpelier or Toulon or Clermont, that we are visiting venues with superb home records and very supportive home fans. But we have the skills and the depth to produce winning performances anywhere, if we have the appetite.

Hopefully, Leo, Girv and Stuart can instill the confidence in the Group to match the skills. But this MUST be the year we return to the level our skills deserve and our fans demand.
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Re: 2017 -2018 Champions Cup Seeding

Postby Dave Cahill » August 23rd, 2017, 7:33 pm

Our job is to provide a competitive training environment for Irish squad members, the Pro14 and European Cup are strictly bread and circuses
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Re: 2017 -2018 Champions Cup Seeding

Postby riocard911 » August 23rd, 2017, 8:10 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:Our job is to provide a competitive training environment for Irish squad members, the Pro14 and European Cup are strictly bread and circuses


Do you actually believe that, Dave, or are you perhaps just exaggerating for the sake of emphasis?
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Re: 2017 -2018 Champions Cup Seeding

Postby deco » August 23rd, 2017, 8:32 pm

riocard911 wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:Our job is to provide a competitive training environment for Irish squad members, the Pro14 and European Cup are strictly bread and circuses


Do you actually believe that, Dave, or are you perhaps just exaggerating for the sake of emphasis?



What part of what he said is wrong?
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Re: 2017 -2018 Champions Cup Seeding

Postby Dave Cahill » August 23rd, 2017, 9:02 pm

riocard911 wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:Our job is to provide a competitive training environment for Irish squad members, the Pro14 and European Cup are strictly bread and circuses


Do you actually believe that, Dave, or are you perhaps just exaggerating for the sake of emphasis?


Belief doesn't come in to it - its the way it is. Look at SOB or Gary Ringrose. I know its blasphemy to say anything even vaguely disapproving of Holy Saint Joe the Uncriticisable, but he couldn't really give a rats ass about Leinster (and its not his job to either). Thats fine if you're winning - even Kidney was bulletproof in 2009 - if you're losing to Scotland and Wales though...
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Re: 2017 -2018 Champions Cup Seeding

Postby Laighin Break » August 24th, 2017, 8:54 am

What about if you're beating New Zealand and England though...?
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Re: 2017 -2018 Champions Cup Seeding

Postby Cathalsmart » August 24th, 2017, 8:56 am

Laighin Break wrote:What about if you're beating New Zealand and England though...?


All I can say is if Leinster play as badly as your spelling we will finish last in our pool...
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Re: 2017 -2018 Champions Cup Seeding

Postby Dave Cahill » August 24th, 2017, 9:03 am

Laighin Break wrote:What about if you're beating New Zealand and England though...?


Did I miss a timewarp back to the 90s when being slam-blockers was the height of our ambition?

Beating New Zealand was brilliant, but at the end of the day, it was just a bag of cash. It won't win a knockout match at a world cup or a grand slam for us. If we had backed it up in the next test like the lions did, then perhaps it might be a sign of something, but it was a just one off.
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Re: 2017 -2018 Champions Cup Seeding

Postby Laighin Break » August 24th, 2017, 9:27 am

Cathalsmart wrote:
Laighin Break wrote:What about if you're beating New Zealand and England though...?


All I can say is if Leinster play as badly as your spelling we will finish last in our pool...


??

That would be a very strange metric to use as there is seemingly no correlation or causation. Having said that, if you were to predict Leinster's performances using my spelling, I don't see how we would finish last in our pool?
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