2017 -2018 Champions Cup Seeding

[Cathalsmart]

Everyone knows that European Rugby started after 2006. Since then Leinster have lost 16 away (pool) games out of a total of 33. They've drawn four.

Considering Leinster regularly have the bulk of the Irish team playing is that really good enough? I certainly don't, especially when you consider most of those wins could have been against shite opposition meaning against decent sides its even worse.

[deco]

Everyone knows that European Rugby started after 2006. Since then Leinster have lost 16 away (pool) games out of a total of 33. They've drawn four.

Considering Leinster regularly have the bulk of the Irish team playing is that really good enough? I certainly don't, especially when you consider most of those wins could have been against shite opposition meaning against decent sides its even worse.

Okay so. Cheerio.

[Cathalsmart]

Everyone knows that European Rugby started after 2006. Since then Leinster have lost 16 away (pool) games out of a total of 33. They've drawn four.

Considering Leinster regularly have the bulk of the Irish team playing is that really good enough? I certainly don't, especially when you consider most of those wins could have been against shite opposition meaning against decent sides its even worse.

Okay so. Cheerio.

We'll agree to disagree okay?

EDIT - Okay looking back I exadurated when I said 'most', I meant a decent amount.

[wixfjord]

Bad Injuries is aloud of c~*k and bull, you had the bulk of playing for Leinster were as Castres a mid table French team were the ones short on players. That I think is a problem in Irish rugby though, expectation in Ireland is very low so when a team loses we just blame injuries and that usually is signed off as the problem yet the actually problem remains unfixed, look at the team sheet against Castres, bar O'Brien being out (bare in mind we nearly hit 60 at home vs Montpellier the previous week with give or take the same side) it was close enough to full strength yet you felt Leinster were trying to win with a hand tied behind there back when infact there was no need, all they have to do is express themselves and the results will come but no. Sorry if I sound so triggered but there is no nice way of saying it.

I'm sure Leo's instructions during pre season will be 'never mind the structure lads, just express yourselves and the results will come'.

I don't really know where to start with that one so I'm going to leave it there.

[Cathalsmart]

To sign off basically what I'm saying is the want to win is obviously there but the desire isn't there which is why an Irish team will probably go a decade or 2 without winning a champions cup trophy because (like it or not) aiming for LBP's on the road doesn't quite work in the KO stage or in a final you have to actually win games, Leinster with the bulk of the Irish NT won 2 away wins in 3 years (1 narrow win against Castres despite the fact Harlequins & Wasp's thumped that same Castres side away, and 1 against Northampton which tbf was a good win but that Northampton side was awful, felt at times Leinster made real hard work of the game) which imo is unacceptable, we have as great side imo we should be aiming to win every game we play against granted away to teams like Saracens its understandable that we don't win but against almost every other side's we should be aiming for a win and no less should be excepted. Look at the forum on here, it looks as if most on here have pretty much accepted defeat away to Montpellier before the campaign has even begun, what kind of attitude is that? That is the difference between us and English/French teams, do you think Saracens & Clermont would accept defeat away to Montpellier? No they wouldn't infect they would consider that a failure...thats the difference between us and them, we need to stop setting the bar low and aim a little higher otherwise we will be no more than a bridesmaid for the foreseeable future. Am I exadurating? well...we will find out in a year, I hope Leinster win the whole thing as much as the next guy on here but we really need to get a gripe when it comes to away games, we are good enough to win so lets bloody go out there and win.


Rant over.

[wixfjord]

To sign off basically what I'm saying is the want to win is obviously there but the desire isn't there

Righteo.

[riocard911]

I think Cathalsmart has a point. After last year's disaster against the Scarlets in the RDS at the end of May, I don't to hear anymore bromides this season from players or coaching staff about the importance of getting a home quarter- or semi-final. Leinster should be aiming to demolish and defeat any and all opponents, whether we play them at home, at their grounds, at a neutral venue or on the moon!!!!

[Cathalsmart]

I think Cathalsmart has a point. After last year's disaster against the Scarlets in the RDS at the end of May, I don't to hear anymore bromides this season from players or coaching staff about the importance of getting a home quarter- or semi-final. Leinster should be aiming to demolish and defeat any and all opponents, whether we play them at home, at their grounds, at a neutral venue or on the moon!!!!

Halleluja! Someone gets it. Exeter/Glasgow/Montpellier, considering the third team will be going through a transitional period I don't think i'd be wrong in saying we are the best team in the pool? So we should therefore aim for 6 out of 6 and anything less should be consider a bad turnover, maybe 5 out of 6 would be considered decent but anything less should be not be accepted, that's the mindset of Saracens and that is where we should be putting the bar. Hearing on here that we won't win at Montpellier? Do you think that was Saracen's mindset when they went to Toulon? No it was go out there and give it everything and boom they won (And with a TBP I believe). Because of how well supported Leinster is we should not be acting like away games are daunting, we will always have huge crowd's even on the road. Glasgow will like Montpellier be going through a transitional period and simply don't have a great pack Imo (Jonny Grey & that Tongan signing aside they don't have anyone in that pack that I would be envious of) and there backline wouldn't be much better than ours and Imo it would need to be a lot better as the difference in the pack's is big, Exeter are literally the AP version of the Scarlets, yes premiership champ's but the price they payed for that was they were sh!t in Europe but the season before up until the last play they looked to be heading into the semi so they look to be the wildcard of the group as with there game plan I feel they are a side better than the sum of there parts.

[OTT]

Do you think that was Saracen's mindset when they went to Toulon? No it was go out there and give it everything and boom they won (And with a TBP I believe).

Never heard such clap trap.

Did Saracens set out to get a draw away with Scarlets last season (Scarlets who are sh!t in Europe apparently!!) If so why did they not want to win that game? Does the result dictate what the mindset was? Scarlets were brilliant that day btw and were very unlucky not to win, teams don't just win because they want to.

Saracens are a brilliant side give them some credit, they won the cup because they were better then the other teams in the competition.

You make things sound simple. Turn up in the right mindset and you automatically win. Nothing works like that, give yourself the best chance definitely but after that things are out of your control.

[Dexter]

Yeah, if we don't have a 100% winning record home and away this season I'm going to be very annoyed!! Very, very annoyed!!

[Cathalsmart]

Do you think that was Saracen's mindset when they went to Toulon? No it was go out there and give it everything and boom they won (And with a TBP I believe).

Never heard such clap trap.

Did Saracens set out to get a draw away with Scarlets last season (Scarlets who are sh!t in Europe apparently!!) If so why did they not want to win that game? Does the result dictate what the mindset was? Scarlets were brilliant that day btw and were very unlucky not to win, teams don't just win because they want to.

Saracens are a brilliant side give them some credit, they won the cup because they were better then the other teams in the competition.

You make things sound simple. Turn up in the right mindset and you automatically win. Nothing works like that, give yourself the best chance definitely but after that things are out of your control.

Its the truth, Scarlets away was the first game they didn't win in 2 season in the champions cup and are in a position to say that it was a once off. If Leinster were in the same position in the last play needing a try they would have knocked on and got the LBP they craved. Its the same at international level, in England its settle for nothing less than all wins whereas Ireland it's essentially "ill take 2nd", if you settle for less you get less simple. Are Leinster good enough to win away to Glasgow? Yes, so go for the win and don't settle for the bullshit LBP, are Leinster good enough to win away to Exeter? Yes, so go for the win and don't settle for the LBP, are Leinster good enough to win away to Montpellier? Tough one but id say yes so go for the win. Now if I was a betting man I would say Leinster will win 1 game of the 3 and we will settle for an away QF/SF and end up crashing out at the same stage as last year, seems to be how we roll, we need to get rid of this defeatist mind set.

[OTT]

Were Saracens the only team in the Cup who did not have this defeatist mindset (although they did for one match but they were in a position to say it was a once off....). It seems to be an endemic problem in European club rugby (and every competition in the world) where by only the winners of the competition want to win it. Every other team at some point drop points /lose matches. They should really want to win those matches and therefore they would.

Gotcha.

[joooooe]

To sign off basically what I'm saying is the want to win is obviously there but the desire isn't there which is why an Irish team will probably go a decade or 2 without winning a champions cup trophy because (like it or not) aiming for LBP's on the road doesn't quite work in the KO stage or in a final you have to actually win games, Leinster with the bulk of the Irish NT won 2 away wins in 3 years (1 narrow win against Castres despite the fact Harlequins & Wasp's thumped that same Castres side away, and 1 against Northampton which tbf was a good win but that Northampton side was awful, felt at times Leinster made real hard work of the game) which imo is unacceptable, we have as great side imo we should be aiming to win every game we play against granted away to teams like Saracens its understandable that we don't win but against almost every other side's we should be aiming for a win and no less should be excepted. Look at the forum on here, it looks as if most on here have pretty much accepted defeat away to Montpellier before the campaign has even begun, what kind of attitude is that? That is the difference between us and English/French teams, do you think Saracens & Clermont would accept defeat away to Montpellier? No they wouldn't infect they would consider that a failure...thats the difference between us and them, we need to stop setting the bar low and aim a little higher otherwise we will be no more than a bridesmaid for the foreseeable future. Am I exadurating? well...we will find out in a year, I hope Leinster win the whole thing as much as the next guy on here but we really need to get a gripe when it comes to away games, we are good enough to win so lets bloody go out there and win.


Rant over.

"the want to win is obviously there but the desire isn't there"

I gave up reading after a couple of lines. Can you make things a little easier for us when ranting by conducting a brief proofread before clicking "submit"?

[wixfjord]

If Leinster were in the same position in the last play needing a try they would have knocked on and got the LBP they craved.

It just gets more ridiculous!

[Dave Cahill]

And a draw happens when the teams are feeling a bit louche

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Cathalsmart]

I've said what I needed to say, if you agree or not that's fine but when I'm right don't forget to give me credit.

[Cathalsmart]

I dont know why I'm getting it in the neck on here, I thought our aim was to be the best club in Europe? If so then just look at Saracens, no loss in 2 season in Europe, that's the bench mark, that is what we should be aiming to be like. Ill leave it there as it seems most on here are trying to move the goalposts.

[neilinboston]

I dont know why I'm getting it in the neck on here, I thought our aim was to be the best club in Europe? If so then just look at Saracens, no loss in 2 season in Europe, that's the bench mark, that is what we should be aiming to be like. Ill leave it there as it seems most on here are trying to move the goalposts.

Didn't they achieve that by aiming to be like us in the first place? Therefore us emulating them is actually us emulating ourselves. Can we be more like ourselves, maybe turn the leinsterness to 11?

[neiliog93]

Montpellier away is virtually impossible. They were good last and have a billionaire owner and have recruited well again. Glasgow have recruited well also and have Dave Rennie as coach - it's tough but doable, and Exeter as Prem champions is another very tricky task, but also probably doable. Nonetheless, three away defeats against those opposition would not be surprising. That's not defeatist, we're good enough to beat them and obviously should approach the games as such, but we do not have a divine right to have other elite clubs in Europe roll over and have their bellies tickled.

[Cathalsmart]

I dont know why I'm getting it in the neck on here, I thought our aim was to be the best club in Europe? If so then just look at Saracens, no loss in 2 season in Europe, that's the bench mark, that is what we should be aiming to be like. Ill leave it there as it seems most on here are trying to move the goalposts.

Didn't they achieve that by aiming to be like us in the first place? Therefore us emulating them is actually us emulating ourselves. Can we be more like ourselves, maybe turn the leinsterness to 11?

What we were when they were aiming to be like us isn't exactly what we are now, we have a young side but with a lot of talent and potential growth so we should aim to be the bench mark again.