Academy 2017/2018

[mildlyinterested]

Leicester Tigers U18's beat Leinster 36-11 today.

Believe that is schools team.

That has to be seen in the context of some of the English guys being in full time, club-linked academies from their early teens and 'loaned' to rugby schools.

Been that way for years still a poor result.

[the spoofer]

One thing that I can never understand is the process with the U18 clubs.

They bring in a large squad of lads who train for the summer, often involving massive travel and commitment. Then they cut the squad before playing any games. There are loads of lads who I have seen over many years who do not stand out in training but are a different animal when playing in games. There are others who train like Tarzan and play like Jane.

It would make more sense to me to put all the lads into a competitive environment before cutting lads to see what they are really like.

[mildlyinterested]

One thing that I can never understand is the process with the U18 clubs.

They bring in a large squad of lads who train for the summer, often involving massive travel and commitment. Then they cut the squad before playing any games. There are loads of lads who I have seen over many years who do not stand out in training but are a different animal when playing in games. There are others who train like Tarzan and play like Jane.

It would make more sense to me to put all the lads into a competitive environment before cutting lads to see what they are really like.

the players capable of making the academy will standout, not to mention it's hardly the first year these lads are being looked at.

[flustered]

ANy lads to look out for on the u18 club team mildly?

[mildlyinterested]

ANy lads to look out for on the u18 club team mildly?

4 players return from last years team: Charlie Ward, Brian Deeny, Luke Thompson & Patrick McKenzie.

Beyond that I couldn't say.

[the spoofer]

One thing that I can never understand is the process with the U18 clubs.

They bring in a large squad of lads who train for the summer, often involving massive travel and commitment. Then they cut the squad before playing any games. There are loads of lads who I have seen over many years who do not stand out in training but are a different animal when playing in games. There are others who train like Tarzan and play like Jane.

It would make more sense to me to put all the lads into a competitive environment before cutting lads to see what they are really like.

the players capable of making the academy will standout, not to mention it's hardly the first year these lads are being looked at.

I don't agree entirely. I haven't seen a Leinster coach at any match that I have coached since the lads were 14/15 years old. This is an area that I believe Leinster could improve on dramatically. I reckon there are loads of lads that are missed each year.

[mildlyinterested]

One thing that I can never understand is the process with the U18 clubs.

They bring in a large squad of lads who train for the summer, often involving massive travel and commitment. Then they cut the squad before playing any games. There are loads of lads who I have seen over many years who do not stand out in training but are a different animal when playing in games. There are others who train like Tarzan and play like Jane.

It would make more sense to me to put all the lads into a competitive environment before cutting lads to see what they are really like.

the players capable of making the academy will standout, not to mention it's hardly the first year these lads are being looked at.

I don't agree entirely. I haven't seen a Leinster coach at any match that I have coached since the lads were 14/15 years old. This is an area that I believe Leinster could improve on dramatically. I reckon there are loads of lads that are missed each year.

loads of academy quality players missed each year? I'm not so sure about that.

I'm sure there are a few players each year capable of playing interpro rugby that don't get there for whatever reason, not good trainers, poor commitment, other sports, injuries striking at the wrong time etc.

there were several trial games at easter break, a large number of players were looked at then, then 40 or so player are picked to train for a few weeks over the summer, before it is cut down again.

[hugonaut]

I don't agree entirely. I haven't seen a Leinster coach at any match that I have coached since the lads were 14/15 years old. This is an area that I believe Leinster could improve on dramatically. I reckon there are loads of lads that are missed each year.

loads of academy quality players missed each year? I'm not so sure about that.

I'm sure there are a few players each year capable of playing interpro rugby that don't get there for whatever reason, not good trainers, poor commitment, other sports, injuries striking at the wrong time etc.

there were several trial games at easter break, a large number of players were looked at then, then 40 or so player are picked to train for a few weeks over the summer, before it is cut down again.

It's not a perfect system ... because there is no perfect system.

I think at this stage the Leinster TIP is doing a lot of things right, and it's more likely to be a case of incremental improvements than dramatic improvements in the future. Any argument that's too critical of the current pathway I regard with some scepticism, because the rate of progress of guys like Ringrose [21 on test debut], James Ryan [20 on test debut], Porter [21 on test debut], Carbery [21 on test debut] is really laudable.

They're obviously individually extremely talented players, but in the context of Irish rugby, there have always been players more talented than others – that's just the nature of things. You're only picking Irish-qualified players. It hasn't been the nature of things for players of 20 & 21 to play professional rugby for Ireland though, that's a new deal.

Beyond that, players like Barry Daly and Fanj have shown that there is a route to professional rugby at Leinster that doesn't go through the academy; guys like Niyi Adeolokun and Matt Healy have been capped for Ireland having being overlooked by all four provincial academies.

[the spoofer]

I suppose my point is that Leinster do their selections at 14/15 years of age and lads get picked for the area teams to play in the Shane Horgan cup. There is currently no follow up post this.
I think there should be a further sweep each year to see if the have missed anyone. This could be done by scheduling trial games for those not included in the area squads or just going along to watch games. I know that some will say well if they are good enough they will come through but the problem is that some lads with real talent just end up with mediocre coaches and that can limit their chances. A good talent scout might well identify a talented lad who needs the better coaching that is available to the lads in the area squads and youths/schools teams.
My experience over the last 10 years is that if lads don't make the cut at 14/15 then they don't get looked at again. I think that is a mistake that is easily rectified.

[mildlyinterested]

I suppose my point is that Leinster do their selections at 14/15 years of age and lads get picked for the area teams to play in the Shane Horgan cup. There is currently no follow up post this.
I think there should be a further sweep each year to see if the have missed anyone. This could be done by scheduling trial games for those not included in the area squads or just going along to watch games. I know that some will say well if they are good enough they will come through but the problem is that some lads with real talent just end up with mediocre coaches and that can limit their chances. A good talent scout might well identify a talented lad who needs the better coaching that is available to the lads in the area squads and youths/schools teams.
My experience over the last 10 years is that if lads don't make the cut at 14/15 then they don't get looked at again. I think that is a mistake that is easily rectified.

I know of at least one player who never played shane horgan, but was at the u19 trials.

But you are right there probably is more scope to look at more players who are overlooked at 14/15, I just don't think there is vast swath of potential academy players being missed out on, of course this could be down to the coaching these players receive at club level and them not having the necessary skills & S&C work down to advance to academy level when they get a trial.

[flustered]

ANy lads to look out for on the u18 club team mildly?

4 players return from last years team: Charlie Ward, Brian Deeny, Luke Thompson & Patrick McKenzie.

Beyond that I couldn't say.

Thank you, Thompson is a very good player, McKenzie just needs to learn to control a game more if staying at 10, might end up at 10 or 15 (if he doesn't stick with boxing). Murphy of Gorey is another good backrow forward

[mildlyinterested]

ANy lads to look out for on the u18 club team mildly?

4 players return from last years team: Charlie Ward, Brian Deeny, Luke Thompson & Patrick McKenzie.

Beyond that I couldn't say.

Thank you, Thompson is a very good player, McKenzie just needs to learn to control a game more if staying at 10, might end up at 10 or 15 (if he doesn't stick with boxing). Murphy of Gorey is another good backrow forward

Very hard to project at this stage players capable of making academy, playing two years at u18 level is a good place to start but it's no guarantee.

Saw on twitter that St. Michaels have 5 players involved with Leinster schools:

Fionn Finlay(Prop)
Jonathan Fish(Second Row)
Jody Booth(Backrow)
Andrew Smith(Wing)
Chris Cosgrave(Fullback)

[El Diablo]

Leinster u20s vs Ulster u20s in Dbrook 3.30 on Friday.

[mildlyinterested]

Leinster u20s vs Ulster u20s in Dbrook 3.30 on Friday.

Should be an interesting team selection, hopefully leinster website have something about it today.

[mildlyinterested]

U20's lost 34-30 to Ulster A.

16 players in ulster squad u20 eligible, 10 not eligible.

I think leinster's squad were all u20.

Unconfirmed starting 15:
1. Jordan Duggan(Naas/Newbridge)
2. Eoghan Clarke(CBC Monkstown)
3. Jack Aungier(Suttonians/St. Fintans)
4. Cormac Daly(Clontarf/North Kildare)
5. Jack Dunne(St. Michaels)
6. JJ O'Dea(Navan)
7. Richard Dunne(DUFC/Blackrock)
8. William Fay(Lansdowne/CBC Monkstown)
9. Mark Fabian(Terenure)
10. Conor Dean(St. Marys/Blackrock)
11. Peter Sullivan(St. Andrews)
12. Myles Carey(St. Marys)
13. Sean O'Brien(Clontarf/Mullingar)
14. Peter Maher(Belvedere)
15. Michael Silvester(DUFC/Clongowes)

Notable players absent:
Ronan Kelleher(Hooker)
Aaron Browne(Second Row)
Caelan Doris (Backrow)
Hugh O'Sullivan(Scrumhalf)
Patrick Patterson(Scrumhalf)
James Kenny(Scrumhalf)
Tommy O'Brien(Centre/Wing)

[the spoofer]

U20's lost 34-30 to Ulster A.

16 players in ulster squad u20 eligible, 10 not eligible.

I think leinster's squad were all u20.

Incomplete Squad:
1. Jordan Duggan(Naas/Newbridge)
2. Eoghan Clarke(CBC Monkstown)
3. Jack Aungier(Suttonians/St. Fintans)
4. Cormac Daly(Clontarf/North Kildare)
5. Jack Dunne(St. Michaels)
6. JJ O'Dea(Navan)
7. Richard Dunne(DUFC/Blackrock)
8. William Fay(Lansdowne/CBC Monkstown)
9. Mark Fabian(Terenure)
10. Conor Dean(St. Marys/Blackrock)
11. Peter Sullivan(St. Andrews)
12. Tom Roche(Blackrock)
13. Sean O'Brien(Clontarf/Mullingar)
14.
15. Michael Silvester(DUFC/Clongowes)
16. Dan Sheehan(Clongowes)
17. Adam Coyle(Naas)
18. Joe Byrne(Blackrock)
19. Cian Reilly(Blackrock)
20. Max Kearney(Belvedere)
21. Peter O'Beirne(St. Michaels)
22. Harry Byrne(St. Michaels)
23. Conor Dunne(Tullamore)

Notable players absent:
Ronan Kelleher(Hooker)
Aaron Browne(Second Row)
Hugh O'Sullivan(Scrumhalf)
Patrick Patterson(Scrumhalf)
James Kenny(Scrumhalf)
Tommy O'Brien(Centre/Wing)

Ruadhan McDonnell - injured I believe.

[Cathalsmart]

Dorris?

[mildlyinterested]

Dorris?

Didn't play

[mildlyinterested]

The U18 Schools Interprovincial Championship will start with a bang as Leinster, sponsored by Bank of Ireland, host Munster at Donnybrook on Wednesday (KO 3pm).

The format of playing Munster and Ulster home and away – Connacht have decided not to commit a team to the competition – should give all three of them a chance to progress through the series.

Each province will have a squad of 26 and each player must be given at least one start in a rule that is similar to that of the FIRA European U18 Championship.

Prop
Conor Duff (Clongowes Wood)
Tom Clarkson (Blackrock) - ireland u18 last year
Luke Rigney (Cistercian, Roscrea)
Cian Duffy (Blackrock)
Fionn Finlay (St Michael’s)
Simon Clear (Gonzaga)

Hooker
Ethan Baxter (St Gerard’s)
Jerry Cahir (Cistercian, Roscrea)
Jamie Kavanagh (Wesley)

Lock
Cian Prendergast (Newbridge)
Daniel Beggs (Clongowes Wood)
Jonathan Fish (St Michael’s)

Backrow
Ed Brennan (Blackrock)
Anthony Ryan (Clongowes Wood)
Jody Booth (St Michael’s)
Niall Hurley (St Mary’s)
Jack Cooke (Terenure)
Gavin Dowling (Clongowes Wood) - u17

Scrumhalf
Ben Murphy (Pres Bray)
Charles Gallen (Clongowes Wood)
Adam McEvoy (St Mary’s)

Outhalf
Mick O’Gara (Pres Bray)
Ben Watson (St Gerard’s)
Cian Egenton (Castleknock)

Outside Backs
James Reynolds (CBC Monkstown)
Max O’Reilly (St Gerard’s)
Andrew Smith (St Michael’s)
Sam Dardis (Terenure) - ireland u18 last two seasons
Ross McInnes (Terenure)
Ben O’Shea (Clongowes Wood)
Tom Maher (Blackrock) - ireland u18 last year
John Maher (Clongowes Wood)
Chris Cosgrave (St Michael’s) - u17

[mildlyinterested]

Leinster U18 Schools V Munster Wed 23/8

15. Sam Dardis (Terenure College) VICE-CAPTAIN
14. Max O’Reilly (St Gerard’s)
13. Tom Maher (Blackrock College)
12. Mick O’Gara (Presentation College Bray)
11. Andrew Smith (St Michael’s College)
10. Ben Watson (St Gerard’s)
9. Adam McEvoy (St Mary’s College)
1. Conor Duff (Clongowes Wood College)
2. Ethan Baxter (St Gerard’s)
3. Thomas Clarkson (Blackrock College)
4. Cian Prendergast (Newbridge College) CAPTAIN
5. Daniel Beggs (Clongowes Wood College)
6. Jody Booth (St Michael’s College)
7. Anthony Ryan (Clongowes Wood College)
8. Ed Brennan (Blackrock College)

Replacements

16. Jerry Cahir (Cistercian College, Roscrea)
17. Cian Duffy (Blackrock College)
18. Luke Rigney (Cistercian College, Roscrea)
19. Gavin Dowling (Clongowes Wood College)
20. Niall Hurley (St Mary’s College)
21. Ben Murphy (Presentation College Bray)
22. James Reynolds (CBC Monkstown)
23. John Maher (Clongowes Wood College)