Academy 2017/2018

[ChrisUppy]

Doris looked excellent. It's a really exciting prospect of himself and Deegan linking up at 6 and 8 in the coming years. Two big athletic guys with all the handling skills and smarts you could want at this stage of their development.

O'Sullivan looked promising, but will take some time in the oven. Ditto with H. Byrne though he will probably see first team action sooner rather than later thanks to our stocks in that position.

I'm not really seeing it with Dunne at the moment though. He has all the size, but his handling skills and technique in contact looked way off how modern locks play to me. But traditionally that position takes ages to develop so there's plenty of time for him.

O'Brien looks closest of the backs to first team rugby to me. Excellent ball skills and looks a smart player. Hopefully his versatility doesn't hold him back from reaching the very top level, but he looks destined to be a fixture in the Leinster squad

[wixfjord]

Haven't seen much of Doris, but to me there's a bit of Picamoles in the way he carries.

[Peg Leg]

Haven't seen much of Doris, but to me there's a bit of Picamoles in the way he carries.

More of a Croft to me

[dropkick]

Hard to know who to compare him to. He has speed and strength but also balance and agility and runs great lines. You can see somtimes when he is tackled, most players would end up on the ground but he manages to stay on his feet.

[neiliog93]

He's somewhere between the two, not as big and powerful as Picamoles (almost nobody is) but less lanky than Croft and probably not as fast (Croft was a 10.7 second 100m runner). Absolutely brilliant prospect in any case.

[artaneboy]

O'Sullivan looks a serious contender for a senior slot at scrum-half. But this isn't schools rugby any more and he doesn't need to 'save the team' on his own. Total focus on quick, sharp passing directly off the deck. Spend twice as much time practising passing as box kicking. Secondary focus, getting to every breakdown before ball emerges (no detours to cover others) and scan opposition before ball emerges, not after. Forget about breaks and covering the midfield defensively. Essentially J10 will 'select' the Leinster emerging scrum-halves until he retires. Work on what he wants (which is quick accurate ball in front of him) and nothing else.

Very acute summary the of the challenges for any emerging scrumhalf going from schools to senior rugby- and specifically in the context of Leinster at this time.

Just being proficient at the standard skill of passing is not enough: to make The Show, you have to be excellent. This is true for all the more specialist positions- THP and hooker, can have great hands or speed, but if they can’t hold up a scrum, or throw straight, they’re not going to make it.

Far too often there’s excitement on the frills- or the unmeasurable- “leadership” (a la POM some years ago) being a particularly weaselly one. All that stuff is valuable- but secondary. Basics, basics, basics...


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[ronk]

Long term, up against France and England in particular, can we afford to mainly recruit to the academies after the U20s. It makes sense in that three years is good for most players, but I can’t help thinking that we’re losing a year or even two with some of the more talented school leavers.

I know we sometimes do recruit early. e.g. Doris is graduating to the senior squad. But he only entered the academy after last years U20s, i.e. he had a year of sub academy and only spent one year in the academy itself.

Without changing what’s working, is there a better way to accelerate the professionalism of some of these players?

I’m half thinking of something like the unfortunately named red-shirting in American Football. You can be in the squad for your first year without playing and stay eligible for the 4 years after that. i.e. so they start earlier and repeat 1st year then continue as normal.

[ormond lad]

Long term, up against France and England in particular, can we afford to mainly recruit to the academies after the U20s. It makes sense in that three years is good for most players, but I can’t help thinking that we’re losing a year or even two with some of the more talented school leavers.

I know we sometimes do recruit early. e.g. Doris is graduating to the senior squad. But he only entered the academy after last years U20s, i.e. he had a year of sub academy and only spent one year in the academy itself.

Without changing what’s working, is there a better way to accelerate the professionalism of some of these players?

I’m half thinking of something like the unfortunately named red-shirting in American Football. You can be in the squad for your first year without playing and stay eligible for the 4 years after that. i.e. so they start earlier and repeat 1st year then continue as normal.

Better way like adapting schools and youths rugby maybe so improve the work done for kids at 17/18 maybe?

[ronk]

That should work together and is vital, but even elite schools is a wide net in comparison.

I’m suggesting a simpler pathway so more (but still a minority) players can turn pro at 18 rather than 20.

[ormond lad]

That should work together and is vital, but even elite schools is a wide net in comparison.

I’m suggesting a simpler pathway so more (but still a minority) players can turn pro at 18 rather than 20.

It isnt really. What are you suggesting. For kids to turn pro at 18 not 20 you need to change/adapt what they do while in school and possibly change what theyre doing in relation to schools cups etc. Do we need that? Should that be done?
Im not sure what that simpler pathway is.

[ronk]

Why change anything in school? Change the academy to better cater to school leavers who might bolt. Or an elite sub-academy or whatever you call it.

[mildlyinterested]

Leinster underage players Irish under-20 appearances:

Tommy O'Brien(Blackrock)(Centre/Wing) - 15 caps.
Michael Silvester(Clongowes)(Fullback) - 14 caps.
Caelan Doris(Blackrock)(Backrow) - 14 caps.
Conor Dean(Blackrock)(Outhalf) - 13 caps.
Jordan Duggan(Newbridge)(LH Prop) - 13 caps.
Ronan Kelleher(St. Michaels)(Hooker) - 11 caps.
Jack Dunne(St. Michaels)(Lock) - 10 caps.
Harry Byrne(St. Michaels)(Outhalf) - 10 caps. (eligible next season)
Hugh O'Sullivan(Belvedere)(Scrumhalf) - 10 caps.
Jack Aungier(Suttonians)(TH Prop) - 9 caps.
Sean Masterson(Portloaise)(Backrow) - 8 caps.
Cormac Daly(North Kildare)(Lock) - 7 caps.
Sean O'Brien(Mullingar)(Centre) - 6 caps.
Charlie Ryan(Blackrock)(Lock) - 5 caps. (eligible next season)
Dan Sheehan(Clongowes)(Hooker) - 5 caps.
Joe Byrne(Blackrock)(TH Prop) - 4 caps.
Eoghan Clarke(CBC Monkstown)(Hooker) - 3 caps.
Ronan Foley(St. Marys)(Backrow) - 3 caps.
Peter Sullivan(St. Andrews)(Wing) - 3 caps.
Tom Roche(Blackrock)(Wing) - 2 caps.

[Ruckedtobits]

Leinster underage players Irish under-20 appearances:

Tommy O'Brien(Blackrock)(Centre/Wing) - 15 caps.
Michael Silvester(Clongowes)(Fullback) - 14 caps.
Caelan Doris(Blackrock)(Backrow) - 14 caps.
Conor Dean(Blackrock)(Outhalf) - 13 caps.
Jordan Duggan(Newbridge)(LH Prop) - 13 caps.
Ronan Kelleher(St. Michaels)(Hooker) - 11 caps.
Jack Dunne(St. Michaels)(Lock) - 10 caps.
Harry Byrne(St. Michaels)(Outhalf) - 10 caps. (eligible next season)
Hugh O'Sullivan(Belvedere)(Scrumhalf) - 10 caps.
Jack Aungier(Suttonians)(TH Prop) - 9 caps.
Sean Masterson(Portloaise)(Backrow) - 8 caps.
Cormac Daly(North Kildare)(Lock) - 7 caps.
Sean O'Brien(Mullingar)(Centre) - 6 caps.
Charlie Ryan(Blackrock)(Lock) - 5 caps. (eligible next season)
Dan Sheehan(Clongowes)(Hooker) - 5 caps.
Joe Byrne(Blackrock)(TH Prop) - 4 caps.
Eoghan Clarke(CBC Monkstown)(Hooker) - 3 caps.
Ronan Foley(St. Marys)(Backrow) - 3 caps.
Peter Sullivan(St. Andrews)(Wing) - 3 caps.
Tom Roche(Blackrock)(Wing) - 2 caps.

Kelleher really missed opportunities this year with his injuries. Let's hope he returns fit as a fiddle and strong as an ox.

[mildlyinterested]

Leinster underage players Irish under-20 appearances:

Tommy O'Brien(Blackrock)(Centre/Wing) - 15 caps.
Michael Silvester(Clongowes)(Fullback) - 14 caps.
Caelan Doris(Blackrock)(Backrow) - 14 caps.
Conor Dean(Blackrock)(Outhalf) - 13 caps.
Jordan Duggan(Newbridge)(LH Prop) - 13 caps.
Ronan Kelleher(St. Michaels)(Hooker) - 11 caps.
Jack Dunne(St. Michaels)(Lock) - 10 caps.
Harry Byrne(St. Michaels)(Outhalf) - 10 caps. (eligible next season)
Hugh O'Sullivan(Belvedere)(Scrumhalf) - 10 caps.
Jack Aungier(Suttonians)(TH Prop) - 9 caps.
Sean Masterson(Portloaise)(Backrow) - 8 caps.
Cormac Daly(North Kildare)(Lock) - 7 caps.
Sean O'Brien(Mullingar)(Centre) - 6 caps.
Charlie Ryan(Blackrock)(Lock) - 5 caps. (eligible next season)
Dan Sheehan(Clongowes)(Hooker) - 5 caps.
Joe Byrne(Blackrock)(TH Prop) - 4 caps.
Eoghan Clarke(CBC Monkstown)(Hooker) - 3 caps.
Ronan Foley(St. Marys)(Backrow) - 3 caps.
Peter Sullivan(St. Andrews)(Wing) - 3 caps.
Tom Roche(Blackrock)(Wing) - 2 caps.

Kelleher really missed opportunities this year with his injuries. Let's hope he returns fit as a fiddle and strong as an ox.

not sure when he would have gotten first team opportunities last season.. Bryan Byrne really stepped up as 3rd choice and got any game time available when Tracy or Cronin were missing.

[mildlyinterested]

Why change anything in school? Change the academy to better cater to school leavers who might bolt. Or an elite sub-academy or whatever you call it.

most irish school leavers are not physically ready for the full academy, hence they spend a year doing S & C in the sub academy before going into the full academy.

bar increasing the amount and quality of S&C players do in school, that isn't really going to change IMO, and given the yearly complaints about how schools rugby players are 'too big' I doubt there is much appetite for increased S&C in schools.

still more players are joining the academy straight from school than previously - 2016(Jordan Larmour & Jack Kelly), 2017(Hugh O'Sullivan & Jack Aungier), 2018(Scott Penny, Ryan Baird, ?)

[mildlyinterested]

Will Connors was at pre season training today.

As was incoming 1st year Paddy Patterson.

Other academy players spotted: Ronan Kelleher, Oisin Dowling, Ciaran Frawley, Conor O'Brien, Gavin Mullin.

[ronk]

Wow, pre-season already.

Glad to see Connors around

[wixfjord]

Confirmed intake and departures:

Confirmed Departures:
Ian Fitzpatrick
Oisin Heffernan (to Nottingham Rugby)
Terry Kennedy
Jeremy Loughman (to Munster Rugby)
Sean McNulty
Charlie Rock

Leinster Rugby Academy – Year Three:
Hugo Keenan
Jack Kelly
Conor O’Brien
Jimmy O’Brien

Leinster Rugby Academy – Year Two:
Jack Aungier
Oisín Dowling
Ciarán Frawley
Rónan Kelleher
Gavin Mullin
Tommy O’Brien
Hugh O’Sullivan

Leinster Rugby Academy – Year One:
Ryan Baird
Harry Byrne
Jack Dunne
Aaron O’Sullivan
Michael Milne
Patrick Patterson
Scott Penney
Michael Silvester

[jimbobjoe]

Who are the scrumhalves now Charlie Rock is gone? I know all our SHs have a good age profile at present but I've not been hugely impressed with Nick McCarthy so far and would like to see some more investment in that position.

[Leinsterimp]

Any idea where Charlie Rock is going?