Should Leinster try and sign Tadhg Beirne?

[neiliog93]

It would definitely have been in our interest to get Beirne for next season. But in interviews he has (non-bitterly) said he was never really given a look-in at Leinster. That's just objectively true, injuries or not. Probably doesn't want to risk a repeat of that situation with a coach who played his position and maybe doesn't rate him as highly as many others.

[wixfjord]

That was in the local news over the summer - and posted by DC earlier in this thread.

Not in this thread, but in any case the story seems to have moved on.
Limerick Leader report was that Munster/IRFU wanted to bring him home.
This now says he has turned down a 2yr contract with Scarlets.

[simonokeeffe]

That was in the local news over the summer - and posted by DC earlier in this thread.
Is it a good move? How many Leinster rejects' careers has it really helped? Will he really be better coached down there?

I'd have liked to see him come back to us: we need a good and consistent row, who can perform at the top level. Beirne seems to tick those boxes.
Right now we have two fit locks for an away game in South Africa, so that would seem to suggest our squad is not ok.
James Ryan may be the next Jesus and he also may not but he seems to be already picking up the odd injury; Molony may also build on the strengths he revealed two seasons ago, but he also may not; Kearney and Nagle are both decent players but not top level and have been injured more than not for us; Fardy won't be with us forever; Toner may rediscover top form, or he may not.

Fardy forgotten after 2 games

How is he forgotten? I listed him. I also noted that he "won't be with us forever". Based on past experience, we'll have him for a couple of seasons.
Regardless, given the various profiles of the players listed above, I believe it would have been in our interest to get Beirne here next season.

I may have skipped a line

[mildlyinterested]

it will be a shame to see Beirne lining out in Red, especially when he Leinster could almost certainly do with him on their books.

[Lar]

it will be a shame to see Beirne lining out in Red, especially when he Leinster could almost certainly do with him on their books.

If Beirne perceives he will develop further with Munster it might be the case that he would seek a move to Leinster at some stage. He wouldn't be the first.

[COYBIB]

Honestly I haven't seen enough of Beirne to say either way, but there certainly seems to be a lot of admiration for how he has performed with Scarlets.

Look, if he's interested in coming back to Leinster, we'd be foolish not to have him. Maybe Nagle could head back to his native province, but we have one young fella coming through who is unicorn, we produce one every few decades, and Toner is getting on in years and Fardy is a stop gap. It's no secret that we struggle to produce locks, so I would definitely want to bring him on board. I don't think we even have anyone in the academy coming through, so it'll be another 4 or 5 years at least before we could potentially produce another top lock.

But as the article says "Munster and the IRFU" ... the amount of money and resources that are poured down the black hole that is Munster to try and maintain them as a competitive province is eye watering. It's only a matter of time before our academy is disected to provide them with prospects, in fact it's already happening with not only the usual of Leinster players not making the academy being sniffed around by Munster, but now actually signing existing academy players.

To date, Munster is where Leinstermens careers go to die. And there have been many, many attempts. That province is an absolute sh*t show run by amateurs. Just something to keep in mind when choosing a destination.

[wixfjord]

To date, Munster is where Leinstermens careers go to die.

Whatever about the rest of your post, that's just not true now is it?

[neiliog93]

Niall Ronan, Conway (eventually), Conor Oliver, Felix Jones, Ian Keatley, Kieran Lewis, etc all enhanced their careers at Munster....You have a point with Copeland. We'll wait and see for James Hart.

[ronk]

Liginds

[Ruckedtobits]

Honestly I haven't seen enough of Beirne to say either way, but there certainly seems to be a lot of admiration for how he has performed with Scarlets.

Look, if he's interested in coming back to Leinster, we'd be foolish not to have him. Maybe Nagle could head back to his native province, but we have one young fella coming through who is unicorn, we produce one every few decades, and Toner is getting on in years and Fardy is a stop gap. It's no secret that we struggle to produce locks, so I would definitely want to bring him on board. I don't think we even have anyone in the academy coming through, so it'll be another 4 or 5 years at least before we could potentially produce another top lock.

But as the article says "Munster and the IRFU" ... the amount of money and resources that are poured down the black hole that is Munster to try and maintain them as a competitive province is eye watering. It's only a matter of time before our academy is disected to provide them with prospects, in fact it's already happening with not only the usual of Leinster players not making the academy being sniffed around by Munster, but now actually signing existing academy players.

To date, Munster is where Leinstermens careers go to die. And there have been many, many attempts. That province is an absolute sh*t show run by amateurs. Just something to keep in mind when choosing a destination.

Let them go and get Dave Foley back from Pau. He's played three of their first four games this season including the last two wins against Castres and Lyon and finished 80 mins in each. Given the strength of those last two packs, that's a level that few Irish second-rows attain outside of internationals.

[COYBIB]

Niall Ronan, Conway (eventually), Conor Oliver, Felix Jones, Ian Keatley, Kieran Lewis, etc all enhanced their careers at Munster....You have a point with Copeland. We'll wait and see for James Hart.

I wouldn't say any of the players named have had very impressive careers. You could argue the likes of Jones and Conway would have been better off staying put. Most are cast aways anyway so it's not like they would have had much better careers at Leinster, but the ones who were in line for an opportunity at Leinster but decided to jump ship have not lived up to the promise, so far at least. Conway as you say "eventually", but he was the most potent attacking underage player in Irish rugby history and was on fire with Leinster in his final season. He's 5 years at Munster now and hasn't surpassed those performance levels since and has spent the vast, vast majority of his time there playing far below that level.

[wixfjord]

Niall Ronan, Conway (eventually), Conor Oliver, Felix Jones, Ian Keatley, Kieran Lewis, etc all enhanced their careers at Munster....You have a point with Copeland. We'll wait and see for James Hart.

I wouldn't say any of the players named have had very impressive careers. You could argue the likes of Jones and Conway would have been better off staying put. Most are cast aways anyway so it's not like they would have had much better careers at Leinster, but the ones who were in line for an opportunity at Leinster but decided to jump ship have not lived up to the promise, so far at least. Conway as you say "eventually", but he was the most potent attacking underage player in Irish rugby history and was on fire with Leinster in his final season. He's 5 years at Munster now and hasn't surpassed those performance levels since and has spent the vast, vast majority of his time there playing far below that level.

You said that "Munster is where Leinsterman's careers go to die." The guys named above (I'd include Dowling in that too), have all had stellar careers or got/are getting gametime that they wouldn't get in Leinster. So that's objectively not true.

You're slightly overplaying that Conway was 'on fire' in his final season. He had a few very good performances at the end of that year (Ospreys most notably), after it had been announced he was leaving iirc.

Jones, Keatley, Ronan, Dowling all benefited a lot, played a lot of Euro rugby and made Irish teams that they wouldn't have made otherwise had they been in Leinster.

Lewis and Copeland probably the only two that you could say have regressed. Is that because of Munster or because they're not really good enough at this level?

[blockhead]

Copeland's progress at Munster has been a disappointment for me. He was playing very well for Cardiff. Had a very good Heino season before he left Cardiff, with some MOTM performances against european heavyweights. Really thought he would be a regular by now. If Beirne does go south hopefully he'll fare better than Copeland.
It would also mean that there would be as many Leinster born players in their senior squad as Limerick ones! Odd that.

[Dave Cahill]

Lewis

I think Lewis stayed with Leinster maybe two years longer than he should have for his own career - but at the time BOD was injured and there was a lot of talk that he was going to France so Lewis probably thought that if he hung on he'd get his shot. By the time he went to Munster we'd seen the best of him and they never got the full value of him. A really good and underrated player

[artaneboy]

Copeland's progress at Munster has been a disappointment for me. He was playing very well for Cardiff. Had a very good Heino season before he left Cardiff, with some MOTM performances against european heavyweights. Really thought he would be a regular by now. If Beirne does go south hopefully he'll fare better than Copeland.
It would also mean that there would be as many Leinster born players in their senior squad as Limerick ones! Odd that.

Yes Copeland is an enigma. He was excellent in a weak HC team, plenty of eye-catching bullocking runs, and you'd have thought he was a very good fit for Munster at that stage.

Ronan and Conway for various reasons leave us feeling a bit sour towards them, but it can't really be denied that both have or had good solid careers. I think Conway would have made it here, but probably Ronan made the right call to shift.

Lewis was (as DC states) a bit unlucky in timing. He probably should have gone earlier, but is probably the only one where the claim that down South is where Leinster players careers die. So- a good line, but not true.


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[simonokeeffe]

Copeland's progress at Munster has been a disappointment for me. He was playing very well for Cardiff. Had a very good Heino season before he left Cardiff, with some MOTM performances against european heavyweights. Really thought he would be a regular by now. If Beirne does go south hopefully he'll fare better than Copeland.
It would also mean that there would be as many Leinster born players in their senior squad as Limerick ones! Odd that.

wasn't Copeland's problem a combination of injuries, attitude, and not getting along with certain coaches?
He also re signed there even though there were options of other Irish sides and more gametime

[dropkick]

Sometimes players don't fit in with certain teams for whatever reason and in Beirnes case, he would have to go back to the coaches who let him go. The sensible thing is a fresh start. Same thing as Cronin and Ross.

He looks a class above Jake Ball for Scarlets and Ball has had a decent international career.

[Peg Leg]

Sometimes players don't fit in with certain teams for whatever reason and in Beirnes case, he would have to go back to the coaches who let him go. The sensible thing is a fresh start. Same thing as Cronin and Ross.

He looks a class above Jake Ball for Scarlets and Ball has had a decent international career.

Common sense right there.

[fourthirtythree]

Should try maybe, won't get. I wouldn't begrudge him going to Munster if he wanted to. Though they could have managed their second row resources better.

Jones wasn't going to get a first team spot in Leinster and was right to go. Much as we would have liked to keep him. Conway was actually more needed, and would have got better opportunites in the short term in Leinster I think. If he felt that he needed a change to progress and fell in love with the sweet nothings whispered into his ear by Munster shortly after signing with Leinster that's his business. That said he is in fantastic form now. We really could have done with him since he left.

But overall we've had the better of players not fitting in/being needed at their province from Munster. Our Munster rejects: Reddan. Ross, and Cronin, have been outstanding for us. The few others have been decent enough too if not at that level.

[curates_egg]

Should try maybe, won't get. I wouldn't begrudge him going to Munster if he wanted to. Though they could have managed their second row resources better.

Jones wasn't going to get a first team spot in Leinster and was right to go. Much as we would have liked to keep him. Conway was actually more needed, and would have got better opportunites in the short term in Leinster I think. If he felt that he needed a change to progress and fell in love with the sweet nothings whispered into his ear by Munster shortly after signing with Leinster that's his business. That said he is in fantastic form now. We really could have done with him since he left.

But overall we've had the better of players not fitting in/being needed at their province from Munster. Our Munster rejects: Reddan. Ross, and Cronin, have been outstanding for us. The few others have been decent enough too if not at that level.

Trevor Hogan, Fogs, Wallace...I think our ledger is definitely very much more in the plus. We have had less Munster rejects but they have pretty much all done well. They have also almost all improved themselves and their prospects by coming here.

The original point was more that Munster hasn't really improved the careers of many of the Leinster players who have gone there. I can't think of any Leinster player who really improved and went on to have better international prospects by going to Munster. You could argue the point on Jones but Conway proves the point: his career stalled by going there. Copeland and Downey were both stars for their former teams in their respective leagues...and then went backwards. Keatley was bullied by the best fans fans in the world (T).

It's clear that we are not going to get Beirne, and maybe he didn't even want to try. But, while I hope it works out for him, I am not sure the evidence is there to suggest it will, and I will definitely not be happy to see him line out against us for Munster.