Jack Conan - The most talented young No.8 in Keltia

[paddyor]

Will we be able to retain all the talent we bring through, both in the back-row and in general? (thinking Sexton/Carbury/Byrne riches also).

Should we?

"Old & Busted"
Heaslip & SOB
The latter has barely played for us over the past few seasons. The former apparently carrying an injury that will have to bemanaged thru the twilight of his career. Neither cost us anything but keeping them could impede our ability to keep their successors as they approach their prime.


"New Hotness"
Van Der Leavy & Conan
Racked up a lot of MOTM awards last season and tries on account of largely injury free seasons and not making the test 23. Injury permitting, I think Conan is the most likely to have an extended run in green, followed by leavy and then VdF. I think VdF could be a very important player for us, like Jennings.

"Forgotten Men"
Murphy & Ruddock
Both RWC, 6N & SH touring test vets, neither have managed to nail down a test 23 spot. Top players nut not quite "top top" in the parlance of Grauniad writers. Always been a fan of Ruddock(see signature). Thought his injury pock-makred seasons play in 13-15 would see him really lay down a marker for test honours and thought his chance had paseed with the emergence of the new hotness last season. Finished the season v strongly IMO (steps in contact way more) so not quite writing him off. Never been a huge fan of Mr Versatile, his best performances in the past few years seem to have come in green.

Tomorrows Men:
Max Deegan & Caelen Doris
Former U20 JWRC player of the year, gets promoted to a senior contract after a year in the academy...needs to be looked into. Haven't seen Doris play yet but got some great reviews for the U20 6N so eager to see what he can do. The coaches seem to be pushing them forward a bit and they know a bit more than we do

"All yours Ulster"
Peadar Timmins
A bit snide maybe, but I can't see how he breaks into that team. Let him finish his degree and cut him loose. Conor Oliver has made a fist of things at Munster.

I'm not saying I'd like to loose Heaslip and SOB, I'd hate to come up against them in the HEC or PRO14. But if Heaslip shuffled off ala POC next season I'd be okay with that. Much as I like SOB, he's been an IRFU player for 3 years at least....how much would we lose? I think the core of our backrow will be the middle 5 for the bulk of the next3 years........so we should probably act that way. We need to keep some space for the lads coming thru too.

[neiliog93]

Will we be able to retain all the talent we bring through, both in the back-row and in general? (thinking Sexton/Carbury/Byrne riches also).

Should we?

"Old & Busted"
Heaslip & SOB
The latter has barely played for us over the past few seasons. The former apparently carrying an injury that will have to bemanaged thru the twilight of his career. Neither cost us anything but keeping them could impede our ability to keep their successors as they approach their prime.


"New Hotness"
Van Der Leavy & Conan
Racked up a lot of MOTM awards last season and tries on account of largely injury free seasons and not making the test 23. Injury permitting, I think Conan is the most likely to have an extended run in green, followed by leavy and then VdF. I think VdF could be a very important player for us, like Jennings.

"Forgotten Men"
Murphy & Ruddock
Both RWC, 6N & SH touring test vets, neither have managed to nail down a test 23 spot. Top players nut not quite "top top" in the parlance of Grauniad writers. Always been a fan of Ruddock(see signature). Thought his injury pock-makred seasons play in 13-15 would see him really lay down a marker for test honours and thought his chance had paseed with the emergence of the new hotness last season. Finished the season v strongly IMO (steps in contact way more) so not quite writing him off. Never been a huge fan of Mr Versatile, his best performances in the past few years seem to have come in green.

Tomorrows Men:
Max Deegan & Caelen Doris
Former U20 JWRC player of the year, gets promoted to a senior contract after a year in the academy...needs to be looked into. Haven't seen Doris play yet but got some great reviews for the U20 6N so eager to see what he can do. The coaches seem to be pushing them forward a bit and they know a bit more than we do

"All yours Ulster"
Peadar Timmins
A bit snide maybe, but I can't see how he breaks into that team. Let him finish his degree and cut him loose. Conor Oliver has made a fist of things at Munster.

I'm not saying I'd like to loose Heaslip and SOB, I'd hate to come up against them in the HEC or PRO14. But if Heaslip shuffled off ala POC next season I'd be okay with that. Much as I like SOB, he's been an IRFU player for 3 years at least....how much would we lose? I think the core of our backrow will be the middle 5 for the bulk of the next3 years........so we should probably act that way. We need to keep some space for the lads coming thru too.

1.Bit much to call Heaslip 'busted'.
- He has hardly been injured his whole career and is due to return from this one within the next month. I actually agree that he might lose his starting place to Conan, but mainly because the latter is quickly becoming outstanding, not because of any decline in Heaslip's ga,e/

2.We need Timmins for depth, at least for now.

3.Jordi is certainly a 'forgotten man' of sorts, but with Ruddock having a barnstorming end to the season and captaining Ireland in Japan, I think he's already been thoroughly 'unforgotten'.

4.You're right about SOB from a Leinster perspective but for Ireland I'm quite confident he'll make the 2019 RWC.

[Ruckedtobits]

Good assessments and straight talking.

Jamie has given his all for Leinster with truly outstanding appearance numbers, injury free. IMO, he still stacks up as No 1 for the biggest games. Whether he can give 80 mins at his optimum may be the question and I would be happy to see him and Conan nailed into our 23 for every key game.

Inclined to agree that SO'B has treated the Blue one as training jersey for past two years.

Deegan may have the highest potential at line-outs but his tackle and offloads has a way to go. He will never be as abrasive as either Jamie or Jack in possession but may evade more contact than either.

For me, Leavy is the absolute standout and should be on every teamsheet, Blue and Green, for which he's fit.

JVDF is a top line 7 but may lack the sheer abrasiveness in carrying needed at international level - think Argentina, S African and English forwards.

Rhys gives Leinster as much as Jamie, game on game, but seems to fill gaps for Ireland.

Jordi is the enigma. Not big enough for an international No 8, he performs like one at international level and he always produces above expectations for St Joe.

Doris may ultimately be sensational. He certainly was at under-age in a sub-standard international U.20 Squad - unlike Deegan who had stars all round him. Hope he and Deegan share gametime in Pro14 this year.

Peader Timmons is a great forward but should have been convinced to be our Bismark du Plessis by switching to hooker. Other than throwing, we have seen him demonstrate every skill an international hooker needs. Even moving now, he would have a potential 8 year international career ahead of him (based on Rory Best's longevity). But our stocks are too full for him to get much Pro14 gametime in Blue at No 8.

But what a trwasure trove of players. We are very fortunate, as a Club, to have them. Some of them will be very unfortunate in getting representative honours in line with their abilities.

[neiliog93]

Deegan is an elusive, skilful, very fast Kieran Read-style no.8 (and IMO has the potential to be as good, really excited about him). Conan is different, while still fast and skilful he's much more of a power runner in the Picamoles mould (not chubby enough or direct enough in his running lines to be considered in the Vermeulen mould).

[simonokeeffe]

SOB and Heaslip are contracted to RWC and 2020 so no sign of them shuffling off
Whats interesting for me is none of them seem to want to leave which is a good sign unless youre an Ulster fan. Dominic Ryan arguably stayed a contract too long

[mildlyinterested]

SOB and Heaslip are contracted to RWC and 2020 so no sign of them shuffling off
Whats interesting for me is none of them seem to want to leave which is a good sign unless youre an Ulster fan. Dominic Ryan arguably stayed a contract too long

Well if Heaslip is to be believed, his recent injury was career threatening.

[the spoofer]

My first choice back row would probably be

6 Conan
7 Leavy
8 Heaslip

We could go with a specialist 7 on the bench as Conan could slip back to 8 and Fardy could cover 6 from the row. Leavy could also cover 6 and then you have the wonderful Jordi Murphy who can cover all three positions.

I'm sure Isa could do a job there too.

[mildlyinterested]

My first choice back row would probably be

6 Conan
7 Leavy
8 Heaslip

We could go with a specialist 7 on the bench as Conan could slip back to 8 and Fardy could cover 6 from the row. Leavy could also cover 6 and then you have the wonderful Jordi Murphy who can cover all three positions.

I'm sure Isa could do a job there too.

SOB?

[the spoofer]

My first choice back row would probably be

6 Conan
7 Leavy
8 Heaslip

We could go with a specialist 7 on the bench as Conan could slip back to 8 and Fardy could cover 6 from the row. Leavy could also cover 6 and then you have the wonderful Jordi Murphy who can cover all three positions.

I'm sure Isa could do a job there too.

SOB?

Nope.

[arsebiscuits1]

With the insane depth at backrow I often find myself wondering what would have happened if Locky wasn't forced into retirement or had a good solid uninterrupted year.

[johng]

You have Experience...

6 Ruddock
7 O'Brien
8 Heaslip

v youth

6 Leavy
7 VDF
8 Conan

Personally I would be happy with almost ANY combo of those 6. Deegan coming up fast on the rails.

[mildlyinterested]

Super youth

6. Doris
7. Connors
8. Deegan

[johng]

Indeed. The next wave could be quality too. If we can keep all of them here.

[wixfjord]

Personally, a fit Ruddock would be one of my first names on the teamsheet for every game. Incredible at the end of last season and adds a certain abrasiveness that our pack can miss at times. Certainly not a 'forgotten man' at 26 and having just captained Ireland.

A fit and firing SOB has to start, but that's a rarity. I still feel Leavy is a little bit undersized for top level test and Euro rugby, JVDF looks slightly ahead of him in the physical stakes, plus he's more of a ground threat imo. (Bit that's seriously debatable!)

The big imponderable is how Heaslip will come back.

[simonokeeffe]

Personally, a fit Ruddock would be one of my first names on the teamsheet for every game. Incredible at the end of last season and adds a certain abrasiveness that our pack can miss at times. Certainly not a 'forgotten man' at 26 and having just captained Ireland.

A fit and firing SOB has to start, but that's a rarity. I still feel Leavy is a little bit undersized for top level test and Euro rugby, JVDF looks slightly ahead of him in the physical stakes, plus he's more of a ground threat imo. (Bit that's seriously debatable!)

The big imponderable is how Heaslip will come back.

Leavy has noticeably bulked up this summer

[wixfjord]

Personally, a fit Ruddock would be one of my first names on the teamsheet for every game. Incredible at the end of last season and adds a certain abrasiveness that our pack can miss at times. Certainly not a 'forgotten man' at 26 and having just captained Ireland.

A fit and firing SOB has to start, but that's a rarity. I still feel Leavy is a little bit undersized for top level test and Euro rugby, JVDF looks slightly ahead of him in the physical stakes, plus he's more of a ground threat imo. (Bit that's seriously debatable!)

The big imponderable is how Heaslip will come back.

Leavy has noticeably bulked up this summer

Perhaps he has, but I'm not referring to bulk per se.
Again, it's a minor thing, but last year against the top physical sides (Clermont, England in the 6N) he was slightly by passed in the tight.

It's definitely a harsh criticism, and maybe it will change as he gets slightly more mature, but that's the type of margins at play in this backrow.

[leinsterforever]

Personally, a fit Ruddock would be one of my first names on the teamsheet for every game. Incredible at the end of last season and adds a certain abrasiveness that our pack can miss at times. Certainly not a 'forgotten man' at 26 and having just captained Ireland.

A fit and firing SOB has to start, but that's a rarity. I still feel Leavy is a little bit undersized for top level test and Euro rugby, JVDF looks slightly ahead of him in the physical stakes, plus he's more of a ground threat imo. (Bit that's seriously debatable!)

The big imponderable is how Heaslip will come back.

Don't think the stats would back that up at all. Wasn't Leavy second only to James Davies for turnovers in last season's Pro12? I think Leavy's a more rounded openside than JvdF. He seems better at supporting play and linking.

Personally, I like the 6. Ruddock, 7. Leavy, 8. Conan combo

[the spoofer]

Leavy is the best 7 we have as far as I'm concerned. He is now fulfilling the potential that was obvious when he was in school. I can see him becoming a fixture in the Irish team too.

[leinsterforever]

Will we be able to retain all the talent we bring through, both in the back-row and in general? (thinking Sexton/Carbury/Byrne riches also).

Should we?

"Old & Busted"
Heaslip & SOB
The latter has barely played for us over the past few seasons. The former apparently carrying an injury that will have to bemanaged thru the twilight of his career. Neither cost us anything but keeping them could impede our ability to keep their successors as they approach their prime.


"New Hotness"
Van Der Leavy & Conan
Racked up a lot of MOTM awards last season and tries on account of largely injury free seasons and not making the test 23. Injury permitting, I think Conan is the most likely to have an extended run in green, followed by leavy and then VdF. I think VdF could be a very important player for us, like Jennings.

"Forgotten Men"
Murphy & Ruddock
Both RWC, 6N & SH touring test vets, neither have managed to nail down a test 23 spot. Top players nut not quite "top top" in the parlance of Grauniad writers. Always been a fan of Ruddock(see signature). Thought his injury pock-makred seasons play in 13-15 would see him really lay down a marker for test honours and thought his chance had paseed with the emergence of the new hotness last season. Finished the season v strongly IMO (steps in contact way more) so not quite writing him off. Never been a huge fan of Mr Versatile, his best performances in the past few years seem to have come in green.

Tomorrows Men:
Max Deegan & Caelen Doris
Former U20 JWRC player of the year, gets promoted to a senior contract after a year in the academy...needs to be looked into. Haven't seen Doris play yet but got some great reviews for the U20 6N so eager to see what he can do. The coaches seem to be pushing them forward a bit and they know a bit more than we do

"All yours Ulster"
Peadar Timmins
A bit snide maybe, but I can't see how he breaks into that team. Let him finish his degree and cut him loose. Conor Oliver has made a fist of things at Munster.

I'm not saying I'd like to loose Heaslip and SOB, I'd hate to come up against them in the HEC or PRO14. But if Heaslip shuffled off ala POC next season I'd be okay with that. Much as I like SOB, he's been an IRFU player for 3 years at least....how much would we lose? I think the core of our backrow will be the middle 5 for the bulk of the next3 years........so we should probably act that way. We need to keep some space for the lads coming thru too.

We'd probably get on fine in the absence of Heaslip and O'Brien (which isn't to say that they're not outstanding players, of course).

6: Ruddock, Josh Murphy, Doris
7: Leavy, van der Flier, Connors
8: Conan, Jordi Murphy, Deegan, Timmins

Those options look pretty strong, and the versatility of several of them would mean that holes could be filled as necessary

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Leavy is such a good impact sub that I could see him filling that role for the next while, possibly for both Leinster and Ireland.