September 2017 Doubleheader in South Africa

[molloyjh]

Our pool is comprised of the three form teams in Europe in their domestic leagues. At our current performance level we'd be lucky to win any of the 6 matches.

I think we can safely say that we will improve between now and then. We've several guys to come back in, others who are only settling back in (and so will be more settled in a few weeks) and we won't be travelling half way across the globe again.

[ronk]

Bent has been excellent. Very impressive. He's probably playing just well enough that he's not in danger of having to disappear during international windows with the other options.

[Dave Cahill]

There's a lot of dead wood in the Leinster squad. I know you need some squad fillers for the week to week in the league, but you should limit how many of them are in any one team, or you'll have days like that. Michael Bent is a complete sh!t show at tight head and always has been.

I stopped reading there. .

Yeah, thats a pretty crazy thing to say with little or no grounds in reality

[simonokeeffe]

@wjxford agree 100% on JGP

Marsh is just a victim of people sticking to initial criticism. When he came into the team first he wasnt even passing the ball like a grown up. But he has gotten much better. And he is more of an attacking 10 than Byrne is

[wixfjord]

@wjxford agree 100% on JGP

Marsh is just a victim of people sticking to initial criticism. When he came into the team first he wasnt even passing the ball like a grown up. But he has gotten much better. And he is more of an attacking 10 than Byrne is

Marsh will never be good enough to be first choice for us, but he's more than good enough to be fourth choice. He has none of the physical gifts of Byrne but has far more rhythm to his game and puts some lovely shape on our backline, which Byrne has consistently failed to do.

Byrne has time and a lot more potential on his side, but I really don't get why he's being singled out after Friday.

(Albeit that specific post was all faintly ridiculous).

[simonokeeffe]

@wjxford agree 100% on JGP

Marsh is just a victim of people sticking to initial criticism. When he came into the team first he wasnt even passing the ball like a grown up. But he has gotten much better. And he is more of an attacking 10 than Byrne is

Marsh will never be good enough to be first choice for us, but he's more than good enough to be fourth choice. He has none of the physical gifts of Byrne but has far more rhythm to his game and puts some lovely shape on our backline, which Byrne has consistently failed to do.

Byrne has time and a lot more potential on his side, but I really don't get why he's being singled out after Friday.

(Albeit that specific post was all faintly ridiculous).

Marsh should be judged as 3rd or 4th choice outhalf
I'd take Byrne over him every time for mid Winter rugby

my paranoia senses are tingling but Cummiskey is blaming Isa's calf injury on all the flying he had to do

[curates_egg]

(Albeit that specific post was all faintly ridiculous).

Nah. You are just triggered by me.
I challenge to take the part of my post about Byrne and tell me what was "ridiculous" about it. In fact, you actually corroborated it a few posts later in the thread.
Byrne has had some very solid performances for us, where he really looks like he has the potential to be a good outhalf. But - to quote you - he looks like a deer in headlights at times, and Friday was an example.
As I also said, it was definitely not all his fault: the pack made life very difficult for the halfbacks. And, as you said, he is very young, so should be allowed plenty of leeway.
But, what was frustrating, was that he was clearly both having a bad game and injured, and no change was made at 10 (despite us having 2 options) until...was it the 71st minute? That is not on Byrne: it is on the coach/management.
It is not unlike the Scarlets game last season, when Byrne was left on the bench despite Sexton having an utter nightmare.
Now, of course, the retort to that would be the telegraphed intercept Marsh threw when he didn't check the lie of the land...but I don't think anybody here would give him a hard time for that (unless he was wearing a Carbery or Madigan mask).

[the spoofer]

(Albeit that specific post was all faintly ridiculous).

Nah. You are just triggered by me.
I challenge to take the part of my post about Byrne and tell me what was "ridiculous" about it. In fact, you actually corroborated it a few posts later in the thread.
Byrne has had some very solid performances for us, where he really looks like he has the potential to be a good outhalf. But - to quote you - he looks like a deer in headlights at times, and Friday was an example.
As I also said, it was definitely not all his fault: the pack made life very difficult for the halfbacks. And, as you said, he is very young, so should be allowed plenty of leeway.
But, what was frustrating, was that he was clearly both having a bad game and injured, and no change was made at 10 (despite us having 2 options) until...was it the 71st minute? That is not on Byrne: it is on the coach/management.
It is not unlike the Scarlets game last season, when Byrne was left on the bench despite Sexton having an utter nightmare.
Now, of course, the retort to that would be the telegraphed intercept Marsh threw when he didn't check the lie of the land...but I don't think anybody here would give him a hard time for that (unless he was wearing a Carbery or Madigan mask).

He's a 22 year old lad with 27 caps for Leinster. That was his 16th start for us playing at altitude for the first time. Cut the lad some slack, he is a work in progress and I'm sure the Leinster set up is quite pleased with how he is progressing.

There are lots of other players with plenty more caps who deserve to be criticised.

[curates_egg]

(Albeit that specific post was all faintly ridiculous).

Nah. You are just triggered by me.
I challenge to take the part of my post about Byrne and tell me what was "ridiculous" about it. In fact, you actually corroborated it a few posts later in the thread.
Byrne has had some very solid performances for us, where he really looks like he has the potential to be a good outhalf. But - to quote you - he looks like a deer in headlights at times, and Friday was an example.
As I also said, it was definitely not all his fault: the pack made life very difficult for the halfbacks. And, as you said, he is very young, so should be allowed plenty of leeway.
But, what was frustrating, was that he was clearly both having a bad game and injured, and no change was made at 10 (despite us having 2 options) until...was it the 71st minute? That is not on Byrne: it is on the coach/management.
It is not unlike the Scarlets game last season, when Byrne was left on the bench despite Sexton having an utter nightmare.
Now, of course, the retort to that would be the telegraphed intercept Marsh threw when he didn't check the lie of the land...but I don't think anybody here would give him a hard time for that (unless he was wearing a Carbery or Madigan mask).

He's a 22 year old lad with 27 caps for Leinster. That was his 16th start for us playing at altitude for the first time. Cut the lad some slack, he is a work in progress and I'm sure the Leinster set up is quite pleased with how he is progressing.

There are lots of other players with plenty more caps who deserve to be criticised.

Ugh. I am cutting the lad some slack. It is totally normal that he is not brilliant in every game.
I'll try - a third time - to make clear that my criticism is not of Byrne but of those who left him on in the circumstances (injured and struggling with the game).

[wixfjord]

(Albeit that specific post was all faintly ridiculous).

Nah. You are just triggered by me.
I challenge to take the part of my post about Byrne and tell me what was "ridiculous" about it. In fact, you actually corroborated it a few posts later in the thread.
Byrne has had some very solid performances for us, where he really looks like he has the potential to be a good outhalf. But - to quote you - he looks like a deer in headlights at times, and Friday was an example.
As I also said, it was definitely not all his fault: the pack made life very difficult for the halfbacks. And, as you said, he is very young, so should be allowed plenty of leeway.
But, what was frustrating, was that he was clearly both having a bad game and injured, and no change was made at 10 (despite us having 2 options) until...was it the 71st minute? That is not on Byrne: it is on the coach/management.
It is not unlike the Scarlets game last season, when Byrne was left on the bench despite Sexton having an utter nightmare.
Now, of course, the retort to that would be the telegraphed intercept Marsh threw when he didn't check the lie of the land...but I don't think anybody here would give him a hard time for that (unless he was wearing a Carbery or Madigan mask).

Haha the irony, I wasn't even referring to your post!

Who's 'triggered' now eh?

[riocard911]

Fun fact: Of Leinster's last seven competitive matches they have lost four....

[curates_egg]

(Albeit that specific post was all faintly ridiculous).

Nah. You are just triggered by me.
I challenge to take the part of my post about Byrne and tell me what was "ridiculous" about it. In fact, you actually corroborated it a few posts later in the thread.
Byrne has had some very solid performances for us, where he really looks like he has the potential to be a good outhalf. But - to quote you - he looks like a deer in headlights at times, and Friday was an example.
As I also said, it was definitely not all his fault: the pack made life very difficult for the halfbacks. And, as you said, he is very young, so should be allowed plenty of leeway.
But, what was frustrating, was that he was clearly both having a bad game and injured, and no change was made at 10 (despite us having 2 options) until...was it the 71st minute? That is not on Byrne: it is on the coach/management.
It is not unlike the Scarlets game last season, when Byrne was left on the bench despite Sexton having an utter nightmare.
Now, of course, the retort to that would be the telegraphed intercept Marsh threw when he didn't check the lie of the land...but I don't think anybody here would give him a hard time for that (unless he was wearing a Carbery or Madigan mask).

Haha the irony, I wasn't even referring to your post!

Who's 'triggered' now eh?

I am a snowflake.

[wixfjord]

Fun fact: Of Leinster's last seven competitive matches they have lost four....

Yeah, but of their last four league games they've won three with a TBP.

Lies, damned lies etc...

[riocard911]

Fun fact: Of Leinster's last seven competitive matches they have lost four....

Yeah, but of their last four league games they've won three with a TBP.

Lies, damned lies etc...

Hmm... How about: And on simultaneous two match tours to SA Leinster came away with less points than Zebre....

[arsebiscuits1]

Fun fact: Of Leinster's last seven competitive matches they have lost four....

Leinster have lost 100% of their games since last Friday

[Experimental]

Tbh I don't think we can really use the 'ah their only a young lads/their just back from injury/they havn't been part of the regular team' excuses, the vast bulk of that team have likely been available and practising since preseason. The cheetahs are in almost the exact same situation (if not worse). A bonus point loss for any leinster team should be unacceptable. Personally I think Byrne has been good for us, he was clearly injured in that game, and Marsh has a lot of potential.

[Dave Cahill]

Fun fact: Of Leinster's last seven competitive matches they have lost four....

Yeah, but of their last four league games they've won three with a TBP.

Lies, damned lies etc...

Not really no. (though is it not 4 out of 8 we've lost - Clermont (L) Glasgow (W) Ulster (L) Scarlets (L) Dragons (W) Cardiff (W) Kings (W) Cheetahs (L)?)

The four games we lost included the game that would have seen us finish top of the league stage of the Pro12, the semi-final of the Pro12, the game against the Currie Cup champions and the ECC semi finals. The Ulster game aside, the remaining games were really hard games against really good teams and there was no real disgrace in losing those games. Those are games that any fairly good team could lose. And if you look at the games we've won, Glasgow, Dragons, Cardiff and Kings - those are games you would expect a decent enough side to win.

The question that has to be answered is whether this Leinster team is anything more than fairly good.

[riocard911]

Fun fact: Of Leinster's last seven competitive matches they have lost four....

Yeah, but of their last four league games they've won three with a TBP.

Lies, damned lies etc...

Not really no. (though is it not 4 out of 8 we've lost - Clermont (L) Glasgow (W) Ulster (L) Scarlets (L) Dragons (W) Cardiff (W) Kings (W) Cheetahs (L)?)

The four games we lost included the game that would have seen us finish top of the league stage of the Pro12, the semi-final of the Pro12, the game against the Currie Cup champions and the ECC semi finals. The Ulster game aside, the remaining games were really hard games against really good teams and there was no real disgrace in losing those games. Those are games that any fairly good team could lose. And if you look at the games we've won, Glasgow, Dragons, Cardiff and Kings - those are games you would expect a decent enough side to win.

The question that has to be answered is whether this Leinster team is anything more than fairly good.

Thanks for the correction, Dave. The question you pose at the end is essentially the point I was trying to make.

[wixfjord]

Fun fact: Of Leinster's last seven competitive matches they have lost four....

Yeah, but of their last four league games they've won three with a TBP.

Lies, damned lies etc...

Not really no. (though is it not 4 out of 8 we've lost - Clermont (L) Glasgow (W) Ulster (L) Scarlets (L) Dragons (W) Cardiff (W) Kings (W) Cheetahs (L)?)

The four games we lost included the game that would have seen us finish top of the league stage of the Pro12, the semi-final of the Pro12, the game against the Currie Cup champions and the ECC semi finals. The Ulster game aside, the remaining games were really hard games against really good teams and there was no real disgrace in losing those games. Those are games that any fairly good team could lose. And if you look at the games we've won, Glasgow, Dragons, Cardiff and Kings - those are games you would expect a decent enough side to win.

The question that has to be answered is whether this Leinster team is anything more than fairly good.

I agree with your last line Dave. But taking an arbitrary sample size like that is great example of using statistics as a drunk uses lamp posts.

[Experimental]

We played pretty well all last season and took our eye off the ball at the last minute, very disappointing, but overall we had a decent season and played very well at times. I definitely think this squad is a lot better than fairly good. Anything except doing the double should be considered a failure.