September 2017 Doubleheader in South Africa

[matt]

Had hoped all except Dev from last nights 23 would be available for these 2 games but I see elsewhere on forum Scott Fardy & Rob Kearney not available.

Leo said in interview they will look at on Monday but seems like they are only taking 28 players. Hope Leavy is ok so we can go with 20 of last nights 23. James Ryan & Ross Molony almost certainties. Loughman should go in absence of Dooley & Deegan and/or Jordi will go leaving 3/4 extra backs probably Gibson Park & then whoever is fit.

[wixfjord]

We should have enough to beat the Kings, but Cheetahs at altitude will be a big test, particularly without Toner, Fardy and RK.
Getting Heaslip, DK and Ferg back in tow would be helpful. Carbery too.

[cormac]

Had hoped all except Dev from last nights 23 would be available for these 2 games but I see elsewhere on forum Scott Fardy & Rob Kearney not available.

Leo said in interview they will look at on Monday but seems like they are only taking 28 players. Hope Leavy is ok so we can go with 20 of last nights 23. James Ryan & Ross Molony almost certainties. Loughman should go in absence of Dooley & Deegan and/or Jordi will go leaving 3/4 extra backs probably Gibson Park & then whoever is fit.

They're only allowed to take 28 players.

[outcast eddie]

I think the jet lag will be real factor even though it's only an hour time difference. I travel to Joburg regularly and can feel the physical effects of the flight up to a week afterwards. The team travel Tues, arrive Wednesday and play Sat; even though the players are much younger and a whole lot fitter than me it's probably fair to expect a ten to twenty percent decrease in performance from the journey. I'd be interested to hear what sport science has to say about the effects of long haul travel on athletes performance levels.

[hugonaut]

I think the jet lag will be real factor even though it's only an hour time difference. I travel to Joburg regularly and can feel the physical effects of the flight up to a week afterwards. The team travel Tues, arrive Wednesday and play Sat; even though the players are much younger and a whole lot fitter than me it's probably fair to expect a ten to twenty percent decrease in performance from the journey. I'd be interested to hear what sport science has to say about the effects of long haul travel on athletes performance levels.

Strictly speaking, jet lag concerns trans-meridian travel and travelling through different time zones. Travel fatigue [a very real issue] is what they will be dealing with.

The squad will need leaders throughout, because it's going to be a bit of a weird trip – heading out to South Africa in September with the season having just started to play two teams you've never played before, and who aren't showing up well thus far. I'd imagine it's going to feel very pre-season, but it could be a rude awakening on the ground.

It'd be very useful to have Scott Fardy on board with his Super Rugby experience, but it sounds like he's not going to make it. The loss of Rob Kearney is also disruptive, because outside Isa, our backline is still quite callow.

Ideally we'll have Rhys, Ross Molony, Jack Conan, Luke McGrath, Isa and Ferg in the starting XV both weeks. Ferg might not be everybody's idea of a flying Leinster winger these days, but he brings a lot of steel, aggression and noise to the team. Definitely still an important member of the squad.

[CiaranIrl]

They're going to Cape Town for the first couple of days for some reason.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I think one important factor about the travel has been forgotten about...the SA teams are travelling back too!

[wixfjord]

I think the jet lag will be real factor even though it's only an hour time difference. I travel to Joburg regularly and can feel the physical effects of the flight up to a week afterwards. The team travel Tues, arrive Wednesday and play Sat; even though the players are much younger and a whole lot fitter than me it's probably fair to expect a ten to twenty percent decrease in performance from the journey. I'd be interested to hear what sport science has to say about the effects of long haul travel on athletes performance levels.

Strictly speaking, jet lag concerns trans-meridian travel and travelling through different time zones. Travel fatigue [a very real issue] is what they will be dealing with.

The squad will need leaders throughout, because it's going to be a bit of a weird trip – heading out to South Africa in September with the season having just started to play two teams you've never played before, and who aren't showing up well thus far. I'd imagine it's going to feel very pre-season, but it could be a rude awakening on the ground.

It'd be very useful to have Scott Fardy on board with his Super Rugby experience, but it sounds like he's not going to make it. The loss of Rob Kearney is also disruptive, because outside Isa, our backline is still quite callow.

Ideally we'll have Rhys, Ross Molony, Jack Conan, Luke McGrath, Isa and Ferg in the starting XV both weeks. Ferg might not be everybody's idea of a flying Leinster winger these days, but he brings a lot of steel, aggression and noise to the team. Definitely still an important member of the squad.

Agree on Ferg, DK too.

Looking at the two SA teams last week and Cheetahs today, they don't seem to be great defenders of the high ball and both want to speed the game up as much as possible. I think Ferg, DK and Byrne could make a bit of hay with garryowens and crossfield kicks.

[matt]

Had hoped all except Dev from last nights 23 would be available for these 2 games but I see elsewhere on forum Scott Fardy & Rob Kearney not available.

Leo said in interview they will look at on Monday but seems like they are only taking 28 players. Hope Leavy is ok so we can go with 20 of last nights 23. James Ryan & Ross Molony almost certainties. Loughman should go in absence of Dooley & Deegan and/or Jordi will go leaving 3/4 extra backs probably Gibson Park & then whoever is fit.

They're only allowed to take 28 players.

I might be wrong on this but I think I heard Leo say the agreement for all teams travelling to South Africa for Pro14 games is 40 personnel to include all management & support staff. The make up of that is up to each team but in event of injury you are not allowed bring in reinforcements apparently.

[nc6000]

I think one important factor about the travel has been forgotten about...the SA teams are travelling back too!

Yes, good point. They also both have to get to SA from Ireland and the Southern Kings will have one day less to recover.

[blockhead]

Leo said in the press conference after the game that he will pick the 28 players for the trip on Tuesday morning,

[outcast eddie]

I think the jet lag will be real factor even though it's only an hour time difference. I travel to Joburg regularly and can feel the physical effects of the flight up to a week afterwards. The team travel Tues, arrive Wednesday and play Sat; even though the players are much younger and a whole lot fitter than me it's probably fair to expect a ten to twenty percent decrease in performance from the journey. I'd be interested to hear what sport science has to say about the effects of long haul travel on athletes performance levels.

Strictly speaking, jet lag concerns trans-meridian travel and travelling through different time zones. Travel fatigue [a very real issue] is what they will be dealing with.

The squad will need leaders throughout, because it's going to be a bit of a weird trip – heading out to South Africa in September with the season having just started to play two teams you've never played before, and who aren't showing up well thus far. I'd imagine it's going to feel very pre-season, but it could be a rude awakening on the ground.

It'd be very useful to have Scott Fardy on board with his Super Rugby experience, but it sounds like he's not going to make it. The loss of Rob Kearney is also disruptive, because outside Isa, our backline is still quite callow.

Ideally we'll have Rhys, Ross Molony, Jack Conan, Luke McGrath, Isa and Ferg in the starting XV both weeks. Ferg might not be everybody's idea of a flying Leinster winger these days, but he brings a lot of steel, aggression and noise to the team. Definitely still an important member of the squad.

I was aware of those terms and considered using them in my post but was afraid of coming across as a pompous ass. I'm relieved to see that there are braver souls than I on this forum.

[hugonaut]

I think the jet lag will be real factor even though it's only an hour time difference. I travel to Joburg regularly and can feel the physical effects of the flight up to a week afterwards. The team travel Tues, arrive Wednesday and play Sat; even though the players are much younger and a whole lot fitter than me it's probably fair to expect a ten to twenty percent decrease in performance from the journey. I'd be interested to hear what sport science has to say about the effects of long haul travel on athletes performance levels.

Strictly speaking, jet lag concerns trans-meridian travel and travelling through different time zones. Travel fatigue [a very real issue] is what they will be dealing with.

The squad will need leaders throughout, because it's going to be a bit of a weird trip – heading out to South Africa in September with the season having just started to play two teams you've never played before, and who aren't showing up well thus far. I'd imagine it's going to feel very pre-season, but it could be a rude awakening on the ground.

It'd be very useful to have Scott Fardy on board with his Super Rugby experience, but it sounds like he's not going to make it. The loss of Rob Kearney is also disruptive, because outside Isa, our backline is still quite callow.

Ideally we'll have Rhys, Ross Molony, Jack Conan, Luke McGrath, Isa and Ferg in the starting XV both weeks. Ferg might not be everybody's idea of a flying Leinster winger these days, but he brings a lot of steel, aggression and noise to the team. Definitely still an important member of the squad.

I was aware of those terms and considered using them in my post but was afraid of coming across as a pompous ass. I'm relieved to see that there are braver souls than I on this forum.

In that regard, I am a titan of courage.

If it's a 28 man touring squad:

Forwards: 16
Loosehead [2]: Healy, E. Byrne
Hooker [3]: Cronin, Tracy, R. Kelleher
TH [3]: Bent, Porter, Loughman
Lock [3]: Molony, J. Ryan, M. Kearney
Flanker [4]: Ruddock[No6/No8], Leavy [No7/No6], van der Flier [No7], Murphy [No7/No8]
No8 [1]: Conan

Backs: 12
Scrum-half [3]: L. McGrath, Gibson-Park, McCarthy
Outhalf [2]: R. Byrne, Carberry
Centres [3]: Nacewa, O'Loughlin, C. O'Brien/J. O'Brien
Wing [3]: A. Byrne, Larmour, McFadden
Fullback [1]: D. Kearney

Unavailable [6]: Scott Fardy, Devin Toner, Jack McGrath, Tadhg Furlong, Sean O'Brien, Jonny Sexton
Injured [10]: Brian Byrne, Tom Daly, Peter Dooley, Jamie Heaslip, Robbie Henshaw, Rob Kearney, Noel Reid, Garry Ringrose, Richardt Strauss, Peadar Timmins

It's a tricky squad to pick, because you have to deal with the same potential of loosing specialist players [hooker, tighthead, scrum-half] in mid-week or in the captain's run without having the numbers to provide against it.

I think that we will end up taking Jerry Loughman, who has reasonable experience on both sides of the scrum. I don't think we'll take six props, nor do I think many other touring sides will do so. Oisin Heffernan and Loughman are very similar in that they have both played tighthead and loosehead at age-grade levels before being pushed right, but I think Loughman is looked at more favourably and he'll get the nod.

With Strauss and Brian Byrne injured, I would bring Ronan Kelleher ahead of Sean McNulty as third choice hooker – I've nothing personal against the latter, but from what I've heard he's not really convincing the decision-makers in the academy and Kelleher was impressive [for anybody, never mind a teenager] against Bath in preseason.

Locks pick themselves with Fardy and Toner unavailable [as rumoured]. Don't fancy Nagle in South Africa ahead of Mick Kearney.

Max Deegan unfortunate to miss out in the backrow, but he's a one position man and he's not getting the No8 jersey ahead of Jack Conan. Jordi Murphy [or RR] can cover No8, Dan Leavy can cover No6.

Scrum-halves pick themselves.

Hopefully Carberry is available for selection. We're shy at fullback with Robert injured and Isa covering centre, and Joey would really help us out there. As I've written somewhere else, I think Dave Kearney might cover us at fullback; he has done before. Dave is good in the air, is very brave and is a good runner in open field ... he just doesn't score tries. He's not an intuitive finisher. Getting the ball more often in space would be good for him. The SA teams don't look well organised or particularly scary, so I wouldn't worry about being found out positionally or over-run.

One of Jimmy and Conor O'Brien might travel as cover – we're light at centre, and both of those guys are good players. Would be happy with either of them.

First Game @ Kings
Forwards [1-8]: Healy, Tracy, Bent, Molony, Kearney, Ruddock, Leavy, Conan
Backs [9-15]: McGrath, R. Byrne, Larmour, Nacewa, O'Loughlin, McFadden, D. Kearney
Subs [16-23]: E. Byrne, Cronin, Porter, J.Ryan, Murphy, McCarthy, Carberry, A. Byrne

Second Game @ Cheetahs
Forwards [1-8]: Healy, Cronin, Porter, Molony, Ryan, Ruddock, van der Flier, Conan
Backs [9-15]: Gibson-Park, R. Byrne, McFadden, Nacewa, O'Loughlin, A.Byrne, D. Kearney
Subs [16-23]: E. Byrne, Tracy, Bent, M. Kearney, Leavy, McGrath, Carberry, Larmour

[simonokeeffe]

If Cheetahs are trying to lure us in to not try theyre doing a good job

Not saying they should go full Liam Williams but their fullback and leftwing have zero interest in try saving tackles

That left wing Mapimpi, who is no Mahoje, is one of the worst wingers Ive ever seen and needs to be targeted mercilessly in all facets if he plays. Wont tackle, cant kick, and has the turning circle of the Vatican

[Dave Cahill]

Thats the same Mapimpi who just scored a dozen tries for the Kings in the Super Rugby tournament just gone and has scored a half dozen or so since moving to the Cheetahs a month or two ago?

[simonokeeffe]

Maybe hes great going forward on lovely hard tracks but on basis of first two outings in Pro14 he doesnt want to know defensively and we should try to take advantage

[Dave Cahill]

Maybe hes great going forward on lovely hard tracks but on basis of first two outings in Pro14 he doesnt want to know defensively and we should try to take advantage

or maybe changing between the northern and southern hemispheres, particularly for african teams, with the differences in the grounds, the type of rugby, the way the game is reffed, the altitude and humidity differences etc etc is really really difficult. But back home on the veldt it mightn't be the best idea to provide one of the most dangerous wingers in Super Rugby (joint third top try scorer along with James Lowe) with a supply of ball

[simonokeeffe]

Maybe hes great going forward on lovely hard tracks but on basis of first two outings in Pro14 he doesnt want to know defensively and we should try to take advantage

or maybe changing between the northern and southern hemispheres, particularly for african teams, with the differences in the grounds, the type of rugby, the way the game is reffed, the altitude and humidity differences etc etc is really really difficult. But back home on the veldt it mightn't be the best idea to provide one of the most dangerous wingers in Super Rugby (joint third top try scorer along with James Lowe) with a supply of ball

changing hemispheres doesnt account for him not chasing back after he was chipped or pulling out of tackles on his line

[leinsterforever]

1. Healy, 2. Cronin, 3. Bent, 4. Ryan, 5. Kearney, 6. Ruddock, 7. Leavy, 8. Conan, 9. McGrath, 10. Carbery, 11. Daly, 12. C. O'Brien, 13. O'Loughlin, 14. Byrne, 15. Nacewa; 16. Tracy, 17. Byrne, 18. Porter, 19. Molony, 20. van der Flier, 21. Gibson-Park, 22. Byrne, 23. McFadden

5 extra players: Loughman (tighthead, loosehead), Nagle (lock), Jordi Murphy (7,8), Marsh (outhalf), Larmour (wing, fullback)

Healy covering hooker in an emergency, Nacewa or Carbery covering 9

[Laighin Break]

Had hoped all except Dev from last nights 23 would be available for these 2 games but I see elsewhere on forum Scott Fardy & Rob Kearney not available.

Leo said in interview they will look at on Monday but seems like they are only taking 28 players. Hope Leavy is ok so we can go with 20 of last nights 23. James Ryan & Ross Molony almost certainties. Loughman should go in absence of Dooley & Deegan and/or Jordi will go leaving 3/4 extra backs probably Gibson Park & then whoever is fit.

They're only allowed to take 28 players.

I might be wrong on this but I think I heard Leo say the agreement for all teams travelling to South Africa for Pro14 games is 40 personnel to include all management & support staff. The make up of that is up to each team but in event of injury you are not allowed bring in reinforcements apparently.

Does the same/similar apply to the SA times when they come to Europe?