Leinster v Edinburgh Fri 29 Sep 19:35 TG4 & BBC Alba

[Dave Cahill]

I think we need to try and remember that this September was probably the most disrupted and messiest start to a season we've possibly ever had.

We should also remember that we aren't playing any differently to how we were playing against Glasgow, Ulster or Scarlets at the end of last season.

[Armchair]

Kearney very poor for me plenty of joy on his wing especialy in the first half and poor or missed tackles not good enough at this level, he would have been hauled off if it was an AIL game. Midfield very poor again not up to it at this level but all we have at the momennt but did think that McFadden should have been put in there when Lamour was on as have seen Lamour play centre in Mary's and not impressive at all, he is a back 3 wing his best position. Byrne at hooker was as bad as it gets I think first 4 lineouts he had were lost 5th was scrappy and his brother bailed him out on the 6th with a short throw to the front, likely doing more weights than playing rugby or practicing his throw ins again not godd enough at this level. Jordi Murphy was easily man of the match great performance from him , back line 11,12,13,14 worry me! The quicker Henshaw and Ringrose return the better, put Lamour on the wing instead of DK. Very fustrating game to be at but if we had the energy and committment that Edinburgh showed we would have won by 20, I was very impressed with them

[wixfjord]

Jordi was excellent alright, some lovely running and breakdown play.

[Leinsterlunatic]

Really thought Dave Kearney was poor, McFadden also looks like he has lost a few yards of pace in the last year or two.

Thought the game was screaming for a bit of pace in the attack for an Adam Byrne or Barry Daly, maybe they're being rested for Munster.

Sexton did ok, I do however agree with the point that he needs to know who's playing around him and take more responsibility when we don't have a full strength side out. BOD was great at doing this and taking on extra responsibility with or without the ball.

[Dexter]

He had been told he was off if he hit him again and as their loose head had been also I guess he was holding the ref to his promise

He was right.

I've always hated sanctimonious refs who are eager to punish you for defending yourself but actively mock the victim when he does what he's supposed to.

If you want fights then let them settle it themselves. If you want them to show restraint and rely on the ref delivering justice then the ref had better step up.

It was pretty clear from the first scrap that the next man in was the real problem, he would have been the guy to punish.

Sent from my U81-DR using Tapatalk

I think the whole thing between Fardy and their front row started less than 2 minutes into the game. Fardy clears him out of a ruck and then the guy drops a forearm on Fardy's face.

[molloyjh]

I think we need to try and remember that this September was probably the most disrupted and messiest start to a season we've possibly ever had.

We should also remember that we aren't playing any differently to how we were playing against Glasgow, Ulster or Scarlets at the end of last season.

That had occurred to me as well, don't worry. But for me that was down to the coaches playing silly bugger with selection. If so, then the messy start to the season is ultimately the same cause. The next 3 weeks will tell us a lot about where we are. I'm more than happy to wait until then before coming to any conclusions.

[OTT]

This stuff that Sexton should not be kicking to the corner because of the guys he is playing with. If that is the case we are absolutely screwed. We had our (presumably) starting second row playing. Our 1st choice hooker started, our back row was as lineout orientated as it will be all season, all 3 men can compete decently. If Bryan Byrne cannot throw the ball in against Edinburgh in a league game in the RDS you would have to question why he is in the Leinster squad at all.

The only personnel that might change over the next few weeks is Tracy another dodgy thrower coming into the 23. So we should just do away with attacking lineouts?

Maybe the hookers and jumpers should improve their line out work instead of blaming it on the out half for doing his job and putting us in an attacking position?

[paddyor]

This stuff that Sexton should not be kicking to the corner because of the guys he is playing with. If that is the case we are absolutely screwed. We had our (presumably) starting second row playing. Our 1st choice hooker started, our back row was as lineout orientated as it will be all season, all 3 men can compete decently. If Bryan Byrne cannot throw the ball in against Edinburgh in a league game in the RDS you would have to question why he is in the Leinster squad at all.

The only personnel that might change over the next few weeks is Tracy another dodgy thrower coming into the 23. So we should just do away with attacking lineouts?

Maybe the hookers and jumpers should improve their line out work instead of blaming it on the out half for doing his job and putting us in an attacking position?

Exactly.

[wixfjord]

This stuff that Sexton should not be kicking to the corner because of the guys he is playing with. If that is the case we are absolutely screwed. We had our (presumably) starting second row playing. Our 1st choice hooker started, our back row was as lineout orientated as it will be all season, all 3 men can compete decently. If Bryan Byrne cannot throw the ball in against Edinburgh in a league game in the RDS you would have to question why he is in the Leinster squad at all.

The only personnel that might change over the next few weeks is Tracy another dodgy thrower coming into the 23. So we should just do away with attacking lineouts?

Maybe the hookers and jumpers should improve their line out work instead of blaming it on the out half for doing his job and putting us in an attacking position?

I agree generally with what you're saying. But pragmatism has to come into it too.

While we should expect more of our hookers, you have to cut your cloth a bit and understand that needs must if the lineout is falling apart. Relentlessly kicking to the corner when you're losing the ball half the time is like the old quote about the definition of insanity.

We struggled for long parts of that game to put Embra away. We could've been staring down a loss. The lineout wasn't functioning and a few three points would've made the game safe.

[riocard911]

Might I suggest that our hookers practice their line out throwing on all occasions, at the same time and for as long as our kickers practice their kicking?

[paddyor]

This stuff that Sexton should not be kicking to the corner because of the guys he is playing with. If that is the case we are absolutely screwed. We had our (presumably) starting second row playing. Our 1st choice hooker started, our back row was as lineout orientated as it will be all season, all 3 men can compete decently. If Bryan Byrne cannot throw the ball in against Edinburgh in a league game in the RDS you would have to question why he is in the Leinster squad at all.

The only personnel that might change over the next few weeks is Tracy another dodgy thrower coming into the 23. So we should just do away with attacking lineouts?

Maybe the hookers and jumpers should improve their line out work instead of blaming it on the out half for doing his job and putting us in an attacking position?

I agree generally with what you're saying. But pragmatism has to come into it too.

While we should expect more of our hookers, you have to cut your cloth a bit and understand that needs must if the lineout is falling apart. Relentlessly kicking to the corner when you're losing the ball half the time is like the old quote about the definition of insanity.

We struggled for long parts of that game to put Embra away. We could've been staring down a loss. The lineout wasn't functioning and a few three points would've made the game safe.

It's nothing like insanity. A home league game against Edinburgh is where a hooker has to prove himself. The captain has to make demands of him. And 1 in 4 isn't really that much of a demand.

[wixfjord]

This stuff that Sexton should not be kicking to the corner because of the guys he is playing with. If that is the case we are absolutely screwed. We had our (presumably) starting second row playing. Our 1st choice hooker started, our back row was as lineout orientated as it will be all season, all 3 men can compete decently. If Bryan Byrne cannot throw the ball in against Edinburgh in a league game in the RDS you would have to question why he is in the Leinster squad at all.

The only personnel that might change over the next few weeks is Tracy another dodgy thrower coming into the 23. So we should just do away with attacking lineouts?

Maybe the hookers and jumpers should improve their line out work instead of blaming it on the out half for doing his job and putting us in an attacking position?

I agree generally with what you're saying. But pragmatism has to come into it too.

While we should expect more of our hookers, you have to cut your cloth a bit and understand that needs must if the lineout is falling apart. Relentlessly kicking to the corner when you're losing the ball half the time is like the old quote about the definition of insanity.

We struggled for long parts of that game to put Embra away. We could've been staring down a loss. The lineout wasn't functioning and a few three points would've made the game safe.

It's nothing like insanity. A home league game against Edinburgh is where a hooker has to prove himself. The captain has to make demands of him. And 1 in 4 isn't really that much of a demand.

Well it is, because continually trying to force something that isn't happening is bad game management.

I agree our hookers need to improve, but that doesn't mean we should avoid the fact that they're currently poor. That's not playing to our strengths/weaknesses.

Despite it being a home league game against Embra, partly because of our reluctance to change tact we could've easily lost.

[molloyjh]

Well it is, because continually trying to force something that isn't happening is bad game management.

A million times this. We had a 1 point lead and a kickable penalty to give us a bit of breathing space. Our other option was a line out play looking for a try. We had already seen our line out wasn't working too well. Even if we had won the line out we still needed to do something with the ball to score the try. They had dealt with our maul fairly well and we 'd already blown a few chances close to the line.

Option 1: a fairly safe 3 points to put us in a more comfortable position and retain momentum.

Option 2: take a punt on something that is in no way shape or form guaranteed given our performance on the night. If anything experience that day would have suggested we wouldn't get a score from it.

I'm not sure any case could really have been made for option 2 other than "in an ideal world it would have worked". Friday night was definitely not the definition of an ideal world.

In the end we lost possession, conceded a penalty and minutes later Edinburgh were 70+m up the pitch and had taken the momentum back off us. What could have happened is we extended our lead and taken the kick off, ensuring we maintained momentum and had a healthier score. Yet somehow we decided against that. That sort of thing reminds me of the HEC final in 2012. We had a Saints fan in front of us and Leinster had won a penalty. We were fairly comfortably in front at that stage and could have looked to play. Instead we took the 3 and took the game beyond Ulster. The Saints fan turned to me and said "that's why you guys are winning 2 in a row. You're ruthless. You always come away with points.".

[Armchair]

Might I suggest that our hookers practice their line out throwing on all occasions, at the same time and for as long as our kickers practice their kicking?

You would think that would be a given but sadly is not the case, The Eddinburgh hookers had an unusual and interesting warm up in that they placed a man half way up the stairs in the new stand and the hooker thru to him from the pitch did this for about 15/20 minutes in the warm up

[arsebiscuits1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-S2I2Y5-Gc

Footage from (presumably) the new video fella they've announced.

Posting because on 1:55 he has a stunning shot of Deegans take before the try. Great reflexes from the kid and the willingness to put your own well-being second to the team was quite impressive (even though he came off better)

[Peg Leg]

I agree generally with what you're saying. But pragmatism has to come into it too.

While we should expect more of our hookers, you have to cut your cloth a bit and understand that needs must if the lineout is falling apart. Relentlessly kicking to the corner when you're losing the ball half the time is like the old quote about the definition of insanity.

We struggled for long parts of that game to put Embra away. We could've been staring down a loss. The lineout wasn't functioning and a few three points would've made the game safe.

It's nothing like insanity. A home league game against Edinburgh is where a hooker has to prove himself. The captain has to make demands of him. And 1 in 4 isn't really that much of a demand.

Well it is, because continually trying to force something that isn't happening is bad game management.

I agree our hookers need to improve, but that doesn't mean we should avoid the fact that they're currently poor. That's not playing to our strengths/weaknesses.

Despite it being a home league game against Embra, partly because of our reluctance to change tact we could've easily lost.

Exactly

[kermischocolate]

Might I suggest that our hookers practice their line out throwing on all occasions, at the same time and for as long as our kickers practice their kicking?

You would think that would be a given but sadly is not the case, The Eddinburgh hookers had an unusual and interesting warm up in that they placed a man half way up the stairs in the new stand and the hooker thru to him from the pitch did this for about 15/20 minutes in the warm up

Glasgow have done this for years. About an hour before ko the hookers warm up by throwing into the main stand regardless of who/what is going by/ underneath the throw.

[Morf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-S2I2Y5-Gc

Footage from (presumably) the new video fella they've announced.

Posting because on 1:55 he has a stunning shot of Deegans take before the try. Great reflexes from the kid and the willingness to put your own well-being second to the team was quite impressive (even though he came off better)

Further evidence if needed of the woeful state of the Leinster lineout @1.14

[hugonaut]

... if we had the energy and committment that Edinburgh showed we would have won by 20, I was very impressed with them

Absolutely. They looked very well-coached and well-organised. Cockerill does a lot of things well as a coach, has outstanding experience and is a serious addition to Edinburgh in particular but also to the coaching standard of the league in general. I would be surprised if they can keep him for any significant length of time.

Regarding Bryan Byrne – he's as honest as the day is long and the idea that he doesn't practise his lineout throwing – and practise it diligently – is unthinkable. But the unfortunate fact is that, hard worker or not, his throwing has never been anywhere near reliable since he joined up; whether it's a 'A' level or Pro12 level, it has been an issue for 4-5 years. It's not like it was really good, that he had it and changed technique to get better but instead got worse [like you see with some bowlers in cricket] ... it's always been unreliable to the point of mediocrity.

Some of it may be physiological. He's not a big guy, and he doesn't have long levers or big hands. That is what it is, it's not going to change. But there's definitely a psychological element to it too, because smaller hookers have thrown better.

At this point, it's looking like a problem that could cut his Leinster career short, because you'd struggle to see any improvement on previous seasons in that regard. Beyond the Pro12, I've seen him play a lot of games in Donnybrook for the 'A' side, and his throwing issues have been more or less a constant.

He's a good player who does a lot of things well and is a serious worker, but he's not so good that he can get past struggling at a major part of his position. I've a good bit of sympathy for him. It's a lonely place when you're on the spot in a team game, be it kicking goals or throwing in to a lineout.

[ronk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-S2I2Y5-Gc

Footage from (presumably) the new video fella they've announced.

Posting because on 1:55 he has a stunning shot of Deegans take before the try. Great reflexes from the kid and the willingness to put your own well-being second to the team was quite impressive (even though he came off better)

Further evidence if needed of the woeful state of the Leinster lineout @1.14

Haha.

That angle of Deegan makes me think it was a fair accident, which I didn't think from the broadcast angles