Sat 7th October 2pm Leinster v Munster (Aviva Stadium)

[BlueBlue]

And the good news in Conference B is that the all-conquering Ultonians have been beaten by lowly Zebre 27-23. The long faces in the BBC NI studio were pretty amusing. Conor O'Shea left the stadium with a huge grin, according to the commentators....

Excellent performance by the Italians, hats off to Bradley

[BlueBlue]

I find it very difficult to regard this fixture with any kind of anticipation these days; it's been a lacklustre affair for a few years now.

If you need a loss to liven it up for you, you might get your wish come Saturday afternoon. I'm concerned, Munster are not in any fantastic form, but they are in solid form. I think they can travel with better hopes of beating us in Dublin than they have had in years.

I'm banking on what we have not seen from Leinster so far returning on Saturday if we are to win, if I had to call it now its Munsters game to loose.

[riocard911]

Shaggy (via the42.ie):

“It’s hard to get a gauge on how either of these two teams are going,” says Horgan. “I’ve seen a lot of Leinster so far this year, and at times I’ve thought they were good, but other times I’ve thought, ‘this is really off the pace.’

“A lot of it is a reflection on who’s actually playing. With [Johnny] Sexton back – and look, we always come back to the Sexton thing – but it does make a massive difference. The difference, I think, is that for any of the other Leinster 10s, they can play flat-ish to the line, but they tend to do it only when the pack are very dominant.

When that isn’t the case, and when they’re under a bit of pressure, then they actually sit back – almost subconsciously – because they need a little bit more time. It’s difficult, even the best 10s can do that, but at the moment for Leinster, at 10 – and 12, actually – they just take that little bit too much time. They’re more comfortable, they catch the ball with more ease, but it stagnates their attack. When Leinster do that, I think they look really, really average.

Horgan continues: “But the reason that the 10 is in that position is because the forwards haven’t been dominant enough. And they haven’t – look at the Cheetahs game that they were expected to win. They were under serious pressure at scrum-time which you wouldn’t expect, they were second-best at lineout as well, and that had knock-on consequences. Going into this match with Munster, we’ll see where the forward pack is as a collective.

“Sexton is very, very, very comfortable playing incredibly flat, and is so proficient at identifying the player that he wants to hold on the inside – that’s an incredible skill. That’s when I think Leinster are at their best, and at their most fun to watch.”

The former winger sees similarities in Munster’s offensive tendencies, particularly at out-half, but is quick to point out that for all the dissections and discourse thus far, the early stages of the season are somewhat of an anomaly.

Saturday, then, will be an acid test as both sides raise their games both as units and individual players, with Champions Cup and November internationals around the corner.

“There’s an element of that to Munster’s game as well,” Horgan says. “When the Munster pack is dominant, you’ll find the Munster 10 very flat. But it’s not as key to the style that they’re trying to play, relative to Leinster.

“We’re seeing them certainly wanting to put some width on the ball, but I think it’s not as often off first phase.

“I’m interested to see how this plays out for Munster. It’s difficult, this early part of the season. It’s kind of like a phony war, isn’t it? It’s like it’s not really happening. And then this is it – this game at the weekend: ‘We’re all on here, we’re all focused on it.’ And it’s not just due to the rivalry between the two teams, but it’s also the game where Joe Schmidt is thinking, ‘who am I picking in these tight positions?’

“There are loads of guys who’ll have their position nailed down, pretty much, but there are others who’ll be thinking, ‘if I get one over on my man here, then I’m in the box seat.’ And rightly so.”

Joe Schmidt and Shane Horgan Source: Dan Sheridan/INPHO

With Springboks forwards and attack coach Johann van Graan reportedly poised to replace his compatriot as director of rugby at Thomond, Horgan spies a chance for Munster to build upon the bedrock put in place by the departing Rassie Erasmus – not only for Van Graan, however, but for Munster’s existing coaching infrastructure.

Horgan is of the opinion that Erasmus instilled a long-missing belief in his charges following his arrival last year, but that the task of elevating Munster back to European contender status might best be achieved with fresh impetus – be it from their new South African DOR, their young and ambitious backroom staff, or a combination of both.

“I’m unsure as to whether Munster have progressed or not, or whether they have taken the correct learnings from the tail-end of last season, which was incredibly disappointing I thought – incredibly mundane performances and an inability to act or change things up,” he says.

“Felix Jones is a kind of forward-thinking coach, very analytical, and that was the kind of thing that didn’t tally with me towards the end of last season. He’s an analytical coach that would recognise how you break down a defence. But it just didn’t tally with what I was seeing on the field at all.

So I was wondering if, in some ways, losing some of that Erasmus influence might not necessarily be a bad thing.
Jones and Jerry Flannery are both young, they’re both considered, both analytical. It strikes me as a big opportunity for them, and because the other element to that team has already been regenerated, you’ve got the opportunity to kick on.

“What Erasmus has done is he’s gotten them to a point emotionally and physically to a pitch that they hadn’t been”, Horgan adds, “and restored a belief that seemed to have dissipated in recent years. That came back. So they’re at this starting point from which they can move on.

What we saw at the end of last season was these emotional performances aren’t enough – they’re not even nearly enough. Whereas I think with Leinster last season, it was almost the reverse: their last game against the Scarlets, they weren’t to the pitch of that game emotionally. It was almost like they were tactically trying to underpin something, but without that emotional or mental edge, it was like putting the cart before the horse. If you don’t have that side of things, everything else doesn’t matter.

Horgan believes that on Saturday, we’ll learn a lot about both sides, and in particular as to how they intend to build upon the soild foundations of last season.

By Sunday, he feels we’ll have an idea as to whether either province can this season go a step further in Europe.

“It’ll be interesting to see how both teams re-balance at the weekend, because if you looked at Leinster’s defeat to Clermont last year, that would have brought you down one line of thinking. Some of the most exciting rugby – what a game that was. I thought we were seeing the rebirth of Leinster after three fallow years where they hadn’t won anything. And bear in mind, any longer and it’s a concern. They have to deliver this year.

“But then the Scarlets game in the Pro12 almost flipped things on their head again.

“Were Leinster better last year than they were the year before? I think so. What level have they started this year? Maybe par, but probably not even. They shouldn’t have lost that Cheetahs game. This next week is really, really crucial for them with the Champions Cup to come.”

[offshorerules]

I know they're missing Taute but I think their remaining midfield is better than ours. Often decisive.

[curates_egg]

I know they're missing Taute but I think their remaining midfield is better than ours. Often decisive.

In theory, Henshaw should be the best centre on the pitch. I know we haven't seen much of him at his best with Leinster. But, in theory, a combo of Isa-Henshaw is surely better than Scannell/Hanrahan-Farrell? I also know ROL has looked pretty poor this season but he looked good at times last season (also outside Henshaw could make a difference). Would a Henshaw-ROL combo really be worse than the Munster option?

[wixfjord]

Isa is out, so it'll most likely be Henshaw - ROL.

I think it's fair to say that a returning Henshaw and an out of form ROL might be under pressure against Scannell - Farrell.

[Raydollard]

Put Madigan at 10 - all problems solved. Oh I forgot. Then put Carbery at 10 - oops forgot that ...

[Dave Cahill]

Isa is out, so it'll most likely be Henshaw - ROL.

I think it's fair to say that a returning Henshaw and an out of form ROL might be under pressure against Scannell - Farrell.

Henshaw was an absolute star on his seasonal return and debut for Leinster in this fixture last season and whilst ROL might be out of form, if he finds some Scannell and Farrell will be in for a torrid afternoon

[Ruckedtobits]

Isa is out, so it'll most likely be Henshaw - ROL.

I think it's fair to say that a returning Henshaw and an out of form ROL might be under pressure against Scannell - Farrell.

Having watched Munster a couple of times this season, I can't see many circumstances where these two will cause problems to any defence. Now, if we don't have a defence, as it appeared in the first 13 minutes last week, we will have a problem regardless who's wearing the 12 and 13 red shirts.

Last Friday, as against the Cheetahs, was largely about confidence and concentration. Like the average golfer starting the season, the check-list of things to remember was too long for a number of players and the tempo of the game too quick for others to complete their checklist. As games progress, players quicken up and shorten that checklist because somethings have become ingrained and some elements are no longer necessary. Its called match practice.

I hope we have enough of it next Saturday but more importantly, on Saturday week.

[Peg Leg]

Am i the only one who thinks the problem is "Reid and RO'L" and not either individual? They both have defensive issues but they were never a choice partnership.its a shitty way for Rory to be serving his early pro time in the centre (with Reid (a renound weak defender, and not much in the way of experience in the big games))having time spent most of his previous season on the wing. And its sh!t for Reid in a season that has both 1st choice centres "off reserve" for the first quarter of the season.
No one given a full deck would put those to together at 12+13, but either, with the right partner and the right strategy would shine.

[curates_egg]

Isa is out, so it'll most likely be Henshaw - ROL.

Isa explicitly didn't rule himself out yesterday but I imagine you are correct.

Am i the only one who thinks the problem is "Reid and RO'L" and not either individual? They both have defensive issues but they were never a choice partnership.its a shitty way for Rory to be serving his early pro time in the centre (with Reid (a renound weak defender, and not much in the way of experience in the big games))having time spent most of his previous season on the wing. And its sh!t for Reid in a season that has both 1st choice centres "off reserve" for the first quarter of the season.
No one given a full deck would put those to together at 12+13, but either, with the right partner and the right strategy would shine.

The thing is: they did well together last season at times (also defensively). Remember the Connacht game when Aki was made to look very ordinary.
Both have been guilty of bad reads/missed tackles this season. Something which has plagued Reid but which he seemed to have gotten the better of. Let's hope it is just down some type of confusion with a new system.

[cormac]

Ben Whitehouse to ref Saturday's game

[the spoofer]

What is the issue with Richardt Strauss?

[Experimental]

Dont really think ROL is out of form, just out of position, and the lad needs a new set of studs...
We could actually do worse at the moment imo than to have Cronin in the centre for a half!

[Atlas]

I find it very difficult to regard this fixture with any kind of anticipation these days; it's been a lacklustre affair for a few years now.

Well, quotes from the coaches like these don't help:

"Munster is always a great stepping stone into Europe, a test for us in terms of where we are physically going into games," Cullen said.

"It's going to be a great training match with physicality and intensity and the pressure we will experience," Erasmus said

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2017/100 ... at-it-was/

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Listening to Eoin Reddan on OTB has me less worried about our performances so far. I expected someone like him to be driven mad by the errors and lack of direction but he was saying that we're not far away from clicking and that the mess with guys coming back at different times and coaches being in different places has led to those errors. None of that is news to anyone but hearing him say that he's not worried is reassuring.

[Oldschool]

There has been a lot of criticism of the Leinster Lineout so far this season.
Finally got around to watching Munster v Ospreys game.
The Munster hooker Rees or Rhys ???????? was the man throwing in.
It could have been "Fla" throwing in.
Same technique and result.
SO it raises the question about our (Leinster's) throw in technique and coaching of therein.
There is a marked difference between the two techniques.
Is this a Fogarty v Fla issue or is it Fla v Individual technique, as in Fogarty is not insisting on a certain technique.
Either way Fla's technique is the the way to go and not just because of results, it is patently obviously a better technique.
It guarantees more accuracy and is more consistent in implementation, thus minimizing the scope for error.

Next weekend you can see it for yourselves - a direct comparison will be available. So until then keep your powder dry.

[RoboProp]

There has been a lot of criticism of the Leinster Lineout so far this season.
Finally got around to watching Munster v Ospreys game.
The Munster hooker Rees or Rhys ???????? was the man throwing in.
It could have been "Fla" throwing in.
Same technique and result.
SO it raises the question about our (Leinster's) throw in technique and coaching of therein.
There is a marked difference between the two techniques.
Is this a Fogarty v Fla issue or is it Fla v Individual technique, as in Fogarty is not insisting on a certain technique.
Either way Fla's technique is the the way to go and not just because of results, it is patently obviously a better technique.
It guarantees more accuracy and is more consistent in implementation, thus minimizing the scope for error.

Next weekend you can see it for yourselves - a direct comparison will be available. So until then keep your powder dry.

Always more to lineout than the hooker throwing as you well know. Calls. Lifts. Jumpers. Timing. It's a veritable smorgasbord of pieces that can go pear shaped. Saying that all ours need to work on their throws.

[Oldschool]

There has been a lot of criticism of the Leinster Lineout so far this season.
Finally got around to watching Munster v Ospreys game.
The Munster hooker Rees or Rhys ???????? was the man throwing in.
It could have been "Fla" throwing in.
Same technique and result.
SO it raises the question about our (Leinster's) throw in technique and coaching of therein.
There is a marked difference between the two techniques.
Is this a Fogarty v Fla issue or is it Fla v Individual technique, as in Fogarty is not insisting on a certain technique.
Either way Fla's technique is the the way to go and not just because of results, it is patently obviously a better technique.
It guarantees more accuracy and is more consistent in implementation, thus minimizing the scope for error.

Next weekend you can see it for yourselves - a direct comparison will be available. So until then keep your powder dry.

Always more to lineout than the hooker throwing as you well know. Calls. Lifts. Jumpers. Timing. It's a veritable smorgasbord of pieces that can go pear shaped. Saying that all ours need to work on their throws.

Couldn't agree more but you have to start somewhere and a reliable throw is the cornerstone of a good line out and all hookers need to be using the same technique.

[curates_egg]

What is the issue with Richardt Strauss?

Knee is what I thought was reported. Was getting sparked a lot the past two season, so hopefully not related to that.