Sat 7th October 2pm Leinster v Munster (Aviva Stadium)

[COYBIB]

Rewatched the match today. Sadly this fixture delivered on the billing of being a shadow of the former intensity it used to provide. Munster are extremely poor, not worthy of the "bitter rival" tag any more, we've won 14 of the last 20, and of the 6 defeats there are some really, really soft ones. The loss in the Aviva with our academy second string still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

We were in complete control for 75 minutes, only threat was Munsters few consecutive lineouts on our 5 metre line, but even then we defended them very comfortably, I think that was their only visit to our 22 other than two soft tries against the run of play, the types of tries you concede in a training match.

We have several levels to go up and a host of massive players to come back, but it disappoints me that we never seem to put them to the sword and do just enough to get the win. In reality with a bit more accuracy and tempo we could have humiliated them, but I suppose why show the playbook and empty the tank when you don't have to.

Munster are in dire straights, heavily relient on signings with the hope of filling the swiss cheese holes in their squad. Shaggy summed it up, Munster will always do enough to be competitive to the tail end of the season, but way off the pace of the top teams in the league and Europe.

Having said that, at the quarter mark, the Pro14 play-off teams are wrapped up. One spot up for grabs in pool A, but already it's just teams jostling for which order they finish for the play-offs. Not sure separating the league into two is a good idea, it just highlights the lack of competitiveness in the league beyond a handful of the better sides.

Looking forward to Europe and getting some big names back into the squad, Heaslip, O'Brien, Ryan, Ringrose, Kearney, Nacewa and James Lowe to come in. The extra firepower in the backline is needed.

Lineout looked much better, fair play to Tracy. I think it was a whole unit issue though and I'll be interested to see how Cronin gets on if he starts next time out.

RIP this fixture though, a shadow of what it once was.

[Logorrhea]

I will never understand the attitude towards POM. I like him as a player but don't have an issue with those who don't, but the snide attitudes that people have are just bizarre IMO. I could understand if he was a dirty player but hes not, and yet people seem delighted when he doesn't play well and look to stick the boot in. Very very odd.

I'm a big fan of POM. Was delighted for him on the Lions tour and throught he got rightly shafted by Gatland. Still thought he carried himself really well throughout the tour. His response to Reggie's question waould have been perfectly understandable if his forwards had actually fronted up. They didnt.

His appeal to being proud, from munster or from Ireland doesnt address the fact that his forwards were almost ladyboy like.

[paddyor]

On the game...

Forwards dominated their pack which always made the going easier but I have to tip cap to Munster D line as for most part was superb and kept them in the game as their attack is embarrassing
With all the talent of back rows on show my picks were Conan O'Donnell and JVDF...I scratch my head on a weekly basis over POM captaining a Lions test team, genuinely overrated beyond belief

In the backs...sexto and carberry were good and ROL took his chances well
Sub front row did well at scrum when they came on
Last 20 mins weren't much to look at tbh

Munster have been better in attack this season than Leinster. I've been saying it for weeks that leinster's attacking game is woeful. Yesterday despite all their dominance it must be worrying that they only scored 2 tries. It's always a bad sign when you see the 10 doing garryowens that close to the line.


Munster were very poor yesterday but still scored 3 tries even though the experimental lineup in the backline didn't work. Why they picked this game to experiment is anyone's guess but in general, they've attacked well this season and have 26 tries, 1 behind the Scarlets. Felix Jones is doing a good job in that regard.


I don't know why POM got so upset with Reggie Corrigan. It's certainly after firing up those who don't like him. Munster needed him for the lineout as Copeland and Holland had a big height disadvantage compared to Fardy and Toner so in that sense he had a decent game. I also thought himself and Stander where doing some of the grunt work second rows normally do.


I thought Carbery was very good and seems to be growing into the position. I still want to see him get a chance to grow into the flyhalf position.

Munster PF 172, PA 112, Diff 59, TF 26, TA 10

Leinster PF170, PA 103, Diff 68, TF 22, TA 14

I'm not seeing it tbh. One of the tries was an intercept (so not really a reflection of your attacking game at all. And another was a consolation try. I don't think you can read too mcuh into them. You've had 2 big games so far this season away from home and lost both.

I don't think our attack has been all that good, lots of room for improvement. We should've BP'd Embra and probably would have if our lineout hadn't misfired 4 times in a row in the last 20 minutes. Nasewa, Sexton Henshaw and Ringrose back in the sazddle will make a big difference.

[paddyor]

I can sort of see what Reggie was getting at with the question, badly phrased.
But POM's response was childish. It's being hailed as 'oh look at this great captain'. Confirmation bias at its worst.

Yeah totally agree. If I was a Munster fan I'd be wondering what happened to their pack. They were pretty soft in defense, especially in that second half. Leinster were branded ladyboys on the back of forward performances like that.

But instead of focusing on how soft they were, they now get to focus on how amazing his angry face is. Daft.

In fairness, that's as weak a Munster lock pairing as we've ever faced.

[riocard911]

Rewatched the match today. Sadly this fixture delivered on the billing of being a shadow of the former intensity it used to provide. Munster are extremely poor, not worthy of the "bitter rival" tag any more, we've won 14 of the last 20, and of the 6 defeats there are some really, really soft ones. The loss in the Aviva with our academy second string still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

We were in complete control for 75 minutes, only threat was Munsters few consecutive lineouts on our 5 metre line, but even then we defended them very comfortably, I think that was their only visit to our 22 other than two soft tries against the run of play, the types of tries you concede in a training match.

We have several levels to go up and a host of massive players to come back, but it disappoints me that we never seem to put them to the sword and do just enough to get the win. In reality with a bit more accuracy and tempo we could have humiliated them, but I suppose why show the playbook and empty the tank when you don't have to.

Munster are in dire straights, heavily relient on signings with the hope of filling the swiss cheese holes in their squad. Shaggy summed it up, Munster will always do enough to be competitive to the tail end of the season, but way off the pace of the top teams in the league and Europe.

Having said that, at the quarter mark, the Pro14 play-off teams are wrapped up. One spot up for grabs in pool A, but already it's just teams jostling for which order they finish for the play-offs. Not sure separating the league into two is a good idea, it just highlights the lack of competitiveness in the league beyond a handful of the better sides.

Looking forward to Europe and getting some big names back into the squad, Heaslip, O'Brien, Ryan, Ringrose, Kearney, Nacewa and James Lowe to come in. The extra firepower in the backline is needed.

Lineout looked much better, fair play to Tracy. I think it was a whole unit issue though and I'll be interested to see how Cronin gets on if he starts next time out.

RIP this fixture though, a shadow of what it once was.

I hate to be pessimistic, but I reckon the chances of ever seeing Jamie in a blue jersey - never mind a green one - are extremely slim. On top of what he said himself at the Ploughing Championships, yesterday an FB acquaintance posted a selfie of himself and Jamie in the Aviva and wrote that he was moving "like a robot" and couldn't bend down. True, it's a one off observation and I have zero idea what the state of Jamie's rehab is. At this stage though I'd be more than happy - not just for him, but also as a fan - if he got his back sorted out, put priority on his own long term health and never played a game of rugby again.

[fourthirtythree]

I will never understand the attitude towards POM. I like him as a player but don't have an issue with those who don't, but the snide attitudes that people have are just bizarre IMO. I could understand if he was a dirty player but hes not, and yet people seem delighted when he doesn't play well and look to stick the boot in. Very very odd.

I'm a big fan of POM. Was delighted for him on the Lions tour and throught he got rightly shafted by Gatland. Still thought he carried himself really well throughout the tour. His response to Reggie's question waould have been perfectly understandable if his forwards had actually fronted up. They didnt.

His appeal to being proud, from munster or from Ireland doesnt address the fact that his forwards were almost ladyboy like.

He was a petulant toddler both on and off the pitch. The shoelace tying and the post match interview would be elevated to international incidents if he did them at a test match. And yet his fanboys bizarrely suggest that they show that he should be Irish captain.

And there lies the source of the schadenfreude: the guys a really good player. Corrigan was never as good as him. He was selected to captain the Lions for a test match. But then he was dropped because the Lions lost the breakdown and he no longer operates effectively there. This led to massively improved performances by the Lions but it's always somebody else's fault when something goes wrong. Never his. A real captain would have diffused that and deflected it with some humble, positive mindset always improving bull. Or he would have been honest and brutal with himself and his team.

But then I grew up in times when the likes of Mourinho and Jaffa the Hut's petulant thin skinned public tantrums would not lead to high office. So maybe he's the captain Munster and Ireland deserve right now?

[leinsterforever]

I thought the fixture lacked intensity. Leinster lacked clarity and looked muddled in attack, and Munster were disjointed. There were some good moments from individuals - O'Donnell's footwork to draw in Byrne and give Earls space was pretty good, and Byrne's aerial prowess was impressive - but on the whole there wasn't much precision and killer instinct on show. Leinster will need to be a lot more clinical next week. I'm just not seeing it. Where are the deep, accurate cleans at the breakdown to get fast ball on a platter?

[Oldschool]

On the game...

Forwards dominated their pack which always made the going easier but I have to tip cap to Munster D line as for most part was superb and kept them in the game as their attack is embarrassing
With all the talent of back rows on show my picks were Conan O'Donnell and JVDF...I scratch my head on a weekly basis over POM captaining a Lions test team, genuinely overrated beyond belief

In the backs...sexto and carberry were good and ROL took his chances well
Sub front row did well at scrum when they came on
Last 20 mins weren't much to look at tbh

Ah here Reggie give it a break.

[riocard911]

I will never understand the attitude towards POM. I like him as a player but don't have an issue with those who don't, but the snide attitudes that people have are just bizarre IMO. I could understand if he was a dirty player but hes not, and yet people seem delighted when he doesn't play well and look to stick the boot in. Very very odd.

I'm a big fan of POM. Was delighted for him on the Lions tour and throught he got rightly shafted by Gatland. Still thought he carried himself really well throughout the tour. His response to Reggie's question waould have been perfectly understandable if his forwards had actually fronted up. They didnt.

His appeal to being proud, from munster or from Ireland doesnt address the fact that his forwards were almost ladyboy like.

He was a petulant toddler both on and off the pitch. The shoelace tying and the post match interview would be elevated to international incidents if he did them at a test match. And yet his fanboys bizarrely suggest that they show that he should be Irish captain.

And there lies the source of the schadenfreude: the guys a really good player. Corrigan was never as good as him. He was selected to captain the Lions for a test match. But then he was dropped because the Lions lost the breakdown and he no longer operates effectively there. This led to massively improved performances by the Lions but it's always somebody else's fault when something goes wrong. Never his. A real captain would have diffused that and deflected it with some humble, positive mindset always improving bull. Or he would have been honest and brutal with himself and his team.

But then I grew up in times when the likes of Mourinho and Jaffa the Hut's petulant thin skinned public tantrums would not lead to high office. So maybe he's the captain Munster and Ireland deserve right now?

+1

[paddyor]

He was a petulant toddler both on and off the pitch. The shoelace tying and the post match interview would be elevated to international incidents if he did them at a test match. And yet his fanboys bizarrely suggest that they show that he should be Irish captain.

And there lies the source of the schadenfreude: the guys a really good player. Corrigan was never as good as him. He was selected to captain the Lions for a test match. But then he was dropped because the Lions lost the breakdown and he no longer operates effectively there. This led to massively improved performances by the Lions but it's always somebody else's fault when something goes wrong. Never his. A real captain would have diffused that and deflected it with some humble, positive mindset always improving bull. Or he would have been honest and brutal with himself and his team.

But then I grew up in times when the likes of Mourinho and Jaffa the Hut's petulant thin skinned public tantrums would not lead to high office. So maybe he's the captain Munster and Ireland deserve right now but not the captain we need!

Fixed for phrasing!

[Oldschool]

On the game...

Forwards dominated their pack which always made the going easier but I have to tip cap to Munster D line as for most part was superb and kept them in the game as their attack is embarrassing
With all the talent of back rows on show my picks were Conan O'Donnell and JVDF...I scratch my head on a weekly basis over POM captaining a Lions test team, genuinely overrated beyond belief

In the backs...sexto and carberry were good and ROL took his chances well
Sub front row did well at scrum when they came on
Last 20 mins weren't much to look at tbh

Munster have been better in attack this season than Leinster. I've been saying it for weeks that leinster's attacking game is woeful. Yesterday despite all their dominance it must be worrying that they only scored 2 tries. It's always a bad sign when you see the 10 doing garryowens that close to the line.


Munster were very poor yesterday but still scored 3 tries even though the experimental lineup in the backline didn't work. Why they picked this game to experiment is anyone's guess but in general, they've attacked well this season and have 26 tries, 1 behind the Scarlets. Felix Jones is doing a good job in that regard.


I don't know why POM got so upset with Reggie Corrigan. It's certainly after firing up those who don't like him. Munster needed him for the lineout as Copeland and Holland had a big height disadvantage compared to Fardy and Toner so in that sense he had a decent game. I also thought himself and Stander where doing some of the grunt work second rows normally do.


I thought Carbery was very good and seems to be growing into the position. I still want to see him get a chance to grow into the flyhalf position.

Carberry at 15 has to be a Joe call with Rob and Jarryd likely to be out. Simon out too I believe leaving Tiernan the only other FB available.

[Oldschool]

Did anyone else happen to listen to the OTB podcast from the Aviva? Oisin Langer and Newstalk treating their rugby listeners with utter contempt. Langer kept referring to ROL as a Leinster winger yesterday, couldn't name the Connacht head coach and was fixated on a point about the Kearney brothers and Isa defensively. Langer seems to believe that the listeners are as knowledgeable as he is. In that, they're not. They'd never treat their football listeners to this level of incompetence.

Bring bsck George Hook.

[curates_egg]

I thought Carbery was very good and seems to be growing into the position. I still want to see him get a chance to grow into the flyhalf position.

Carberry at 15 has to be a Joe call with Rob and Jarryd likely to be out. Simon out too I believe leaving Tiernan the only other FB available.

Agree with Oldschool. I thought Carbery looked suddenly very comfortable at 15. Some good takes, some excellent fringe tackling (which predecessors wouldn't have made), almost always a threat with the ball. The only question for me is his kicking from hand.
Previously he looked like a great player shoe-horned in at 15; now he looks like a great player who understands the position.
I also like what he brings at 10, so find it a pity if we never see him there again. But he is a great player to watch.
I don't know why you would think he is being played at 15 because of Joe. The Leinster management has been picking him at 15 pretty consistently in 2017.

[Oldschool]

I thought the fixture lacked intensity. Leinster lacked clarity and looked muddled in attack, and Munster were disjointed. There were some good moments from individuals - O'Donnell's footwork to draw in Byrne and give Earls space was pretty good, and Byrne's aerial prowess was impressive - but on the whole there wasn't much precision and killer instinct on show. Leinster will need to be a lot more clinical next week. I'm just not seeing it. Where are the deep, accurate cleans at the breakdown to get fast ball on a platter?

"The Fields" went missing too.

[Oldschool]

I thought Carbery was very good and seems to be growing into the position. I still want to see him get a chance to grow into the flyhalf position.

Carberry at 15 has to be a Joe call with Rob and Jarryd likely to be out. Simon out too I believe leaving Tiernan the only other FB available.

Agree with Oldschool. I thought Carbery looked suddenly very comfortable at 15. Some good takes, some excellent fringe tackling (which predecessors wouldn't have made), almost always a threat with the ball. The only question for me is his kicking from hand.
Previously he looked like a great player shoe-horned in at 15; now he looks like a great player who understands the position.
I also like what he brings at 10, so find it a pity if we never see him there again. But he is a great player to watch.
I don't know why you would think he is being played at 15 because of Joe. The Leinster management has been picking him at 15 pretty consistently in 2017.

Rob and Payne have been injury prone and Zebo seemed to have lost something last season and is injured now.
Joe would have the inside track on those injuries etc.
Joe is a strategic planner and knows Joey is the answer.
His and Leinster's other problem is finding a replacement for Kearney at 15 because Joey is/should be the answer at 10.
As to whose call it was perhaps it was a joint decision or Leinster only but Joe definitely looks a long way down the road.

[riocard911]

If Carbery can do for Leinster and Ireland at 15, what McKenzie does in that position for the 'Canes & NZ, I don't care if he never plays outhalf again. p.s. McKenzie's match winning try vs SA yesterday is worth checking out on YouTube, as it is sublime!!!!!

[LeRouxIsPHat]

He was a petulant toddler both on and off the pitch. The shoelace tying and the post match interview would be elevated to international incidents if he did them at a test match. And yet his fanboys bizarrely suggest that they show that he should be Irish captain.

And there lies the source of the schadenfreude: the guys a really good player. Corrigan was never as good as him. He was selected to captain the Lions for a test match. But then he was dropped because the Lions lost the breakdown and he no longer operates effectively there. This led to massively improved performances by the Lions but it's always somebody else's fault when something goes wrong. Never his. A real captain would have diffused that and deflected it with some humble, positive mindset always improving bull. Or he would have been honest and brutal with himself and his team.

But then I grew up in times when the likes of Mourinho and Jaffa the Hut's petulant thin skinned public tantrums would not lead to high office. So maybe he's the captain Munster and Ireland deserve right now?

Have to say I'm surprised that anyone cares about the shoelace thing, a nothing incident.

Can't say I get the ire for his performance/reaction to the first test either. Having been dropped as Lions captain he should have come out and said he played poorly? Is that what you're saying? I can't remember him suggesting that his performance (which wasn't bad btw, just not good enough) was down to someone else, but if you're saying that his fans blamed other reasons then that has absolutely nothing to do with POM himself. Also saying "this led to a massively improved performed by the Lions" is a massive exaggeration. Was he the only change they made then?

I really don't get it. Some very reasonable posters on here seem to have it in for him and at times it's nothing short of disrespectful. Like I said, I don't care if people don't rate him, but the snide attitudes and delight in him not performing are bizarre IMO.

[dropkick]

Furlong, McGrath, POM and Stander were all fairly anonymous yesterday. Maybe it might have something to do with this essentially being their pre season.

[dropkick]

On the game...

Forwards dominated their pack which always made the going easier but I have to tip cap to Munster D line as for most part was superb and kept them in the game as their attack is embarrassing
With all the talent of back rows on show my picks were Conan O'Donnell and JVDF...I scratch my head on a weekly basis over POM captaining a Lions test team, genuinely overrated beyond belief

In the backs...sexto and carberry were good and ROL took his chances well
Sub front row did well at scrum when they came on
Last 20 mins weren't much to look at tbh

Munster have been better in attack this season than Leinster. I've been saying it for weeks that leinster's attacking game is woeful. Yesterday despite all their dominance it must be worrying that they only scored 2 tries. It's always a bad sign when you see the 10 doing garryowens that close to the line.


Munster were very poor yesterday but still scored 3 tries even though the experimental lineup in the backline didn't work. Why they picked this game to experiment is anyone's guess but in general, they've attacked well this season and have 26 tries, 1 behind the Scarlets. Felix Jones is doing a good job in that regard.


I don't know why POM got so upset with Reggie Corrigan. It's certainly after firing up those who don't like him. Munster needed him for the lineout as Copeland and Holland had a big height disadvantage compared to Fardy and Toner so in that sense he had a decent game. I also thought himself and Stander where doing some of the grunt work second rows normally do.


I thought Carbery was very good and seems to be growing into the position. I still want to see him get a chance to grow into the flyhalf position.

Munster PF 172, PA 112, Diff 59, TF 26, TA 10

Leinster PF170, PA 103, Diff 68, TF 22, TA 14

I'm not seeing it tbh. One of the tries was an intercept (so not really a reflection of your attacking game at all. And another was a consolation try. I don't think you can read too mcuh into them. You've had 2 big games so far this season away from home and lost both.

I don't think our attack has been all that good, lots of room for improvement. We should've BP'd Embra and probably would have if our lineout hadn't misfired 4 times in a row in the last 20 minutes. Nasewa, Sexton Henshaw and Ringrose back in the sazddle will make a big difference.

The difference is Munster are trying to play a more expansive game even if they're making mistakes. An interesting stat from yesterday was Munster made twice the running meters than Leinster. They made 17 offloads to leinster's 6 (if I remember correctly). I'm happy enough with how the season is going.


For some reason Leinster are just trucking it up all season and looking to use forward power to score tries. It's not like the talent to play more expansively isn't there.

[RoboProp]

He was a petulant toddler both on and off the pitch. The shoelace tying and the post match interview would be elevated to international incidents if he did them at a test match. And yet his fanboys bizarrely suggest that they show that he should be Irish captain.

And there lies the source of the schadenfreude: the guys a really good player. Corrigan was never as good as him. He was selected to captain the Lions for a test match. But then he was dropped because the Lions lost the breakdown and he no longer operates effectively there. This led to massively improved performances by the Lions but it's always somebody else's fault when something goes wrong. Never his. A real captain would have diffused that and deflected it with some humble, positive mindset always improving bull. Or he would have been honest and brutal with himself and his team.

But then I grew up in times when the likes of Mourinho and Jaffa the Hut's petulant thin skinned public tantrums would not lead to high office. So maybe he's the captain Munster and Ireland deserve right now?

Have to say I'm surprised that anyone cares about the shoelace thing, a nothing incident.

Can't say I get the ire for his performance/reaction to the first test either. Having been dropped as Lions captain he should have come out and said he played poorly? Is that what you're saying? I can't remember him suggesting that his performance (which wasn't bad btw, just not good enough) was down to someone else, but if you're saying that his fans blamed other reasons then that has absolutely nothing to do with POM himself. Also saying "this led to a massively improved performed by the Lions" is a massive exaggeration. Was he the only change they made then?

I really don't get it. Some very reasonable posters on here seem to have it in for him and at times it's nothing short of disrespectful. Like I said, I don't care if people don't rate him, but the snide attitudes and delight in him not performing are bizarre IMO.

It harkens back to the times when the meeja had a wide on for all things Munster, and were always derisory towards Leinster. He is the current embodiment of that meeja Munster love in, I like him as a player and other times I'm like "oh he can get f**ked sky high". Irrational sentiment worthy of a Trumpeteer I know. Some wounds never really heal