Glasgow v Leinster, Sat, 1pm, Sky.

[wixfjord]

Know it's a cliche, but breakdown battle will be critical as usual.

Like Ospreys, Glas have gotten the better of us a few times over the years by cheating like fcuk at breakdown, taking that extra step forward at the offside line and being difficult to slow down themselves.

Obviously they're an excellent well drilled side too, but if we get a sympathetic ref and VDF et al can stop their back row (particularly Gibbins, who's a cracking player) taking the piss we're in business.

Price is a key player for them I think. Sets the tempo really well.

We will definitely be going hell for leather for their scrum too. Looked rocky enough last week and will likely contain a first year pro, a loanee from Embra and Fagerson (who's great but green) this week.

[wixfjord]

Perhaps Glasgow should be worried about Byrne going forward instead of us worrying about his defense.

I don't think the Leinster coaching team would be overly exercised about his defensive performance last saturday - in fact I'd say that it pretty much went to plan.

Some plan eh! Missing 90% of his tackles, getting stepped multiple times, giving away a yellow and a try.
Can't go much better than that!

The plan was to force Nadolo backwards with kicks before preventing him building up any momentuum on the return, garnering Leinster big territorial gains. Byrne's job wasn't to stop him, it was to stop his momentuum - there was no expectation of a back to stop Nadolo completely, even the by now ubiquitous Henshaw clip shows Henshaw - a superb defender - getting bounced backwards on his arse. Byrne missed a lot of tackles, doesn't mean they weren't successful within the greater scheme though.

That was the plan was it Dave?

Nobody expects Byrne to stop him dead. Most players get bumped by Nadolo. But there certainly is an expectation to at least stop his momentum and get in the way, not wave at him going past.
There were multiple times Byrne didn't even lay a hand on his man at all and got stepped, leading to a break.

https://youtu.be/GgWJLfZW2cg?t=42m48s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0h8q6U ... e&t=31m03s

And that's ignoring the other parts of his defensive performance.

If that was the plan working well, I'd hate to see it malfunctioning!

[olaf the fat]

Perhaps Glasgow should be worried about Byrne going forward instead of us worrying about his defense.

I don't think the Leinster coaching team would be overly exercised about his defensive performance last saturday - in fact I'd say that it pretty much went to plan.

There is a bit of underestimating the effect someone like Byrne has on an opposing teams set up. We targeted Nadolo in defense but had to change our alignment to handle him in attack. Glasgow may see Byrne as a point to attack, but know he could slice through their defensive set up and cause them untold nightmares.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Have to say I still don't get what you're saying about him being stepped multiple times. The Nadolo one you mentioned adound the 60 minute mark wasn't a step, bad missed tackle where he flew up and flapped at him (he looked tired actually) as Nadolo went by, but he wasn't stepped. Other than the one with the fullback, which I've already said was good pressure initially and then a great step by the 15, I don't remember him being stepped.

I agree he made errors, but don't think he was as bad as you made out, although certainly not as good as Dave is making out. It's somewhere in between and if he's dropped he can have no complaints, particularly because of the mistakes the week before too.

Again I think his positioning is more the issue than physicality. I watched the game back and Luke Fitz was disappointed with his positioning for the Nadolo try and the yellow card. Neither were easy to defend (the first one usually would be but not against Nadolo) but when the pressure is on he makes bad decisions.

[leinsterforever]

Byrne tried to put a 'hit' on Nadolo at least once. That's never going to work (unless you're Tadhg Furlong, maybe). It would be better just to wrap him up and hold his ankles together so he falls over. Any significantly smaller player who tries to dominate the contact against Nadolo is likely to get blown out of the way

[wixfjord]

Have to say I still don't get what you're saying about him being stepped multiple times. The Nadolo one you mentioned adound the 60 minute mark wasn't a step, bad missed tackle where he flew up and flapped at him (he looked tired actually) as Nadolo went by, but he wasn't stepped. Other than the one with the fullback, which I've already said was good pressure initially and then a great step by the 15, I don't remember him being stepped.

I agree he made errors, but don't think he was as bad as you made out, although certainly not as good as Dave is making out. It's somewhere in between and if he's dropped he can have no complaints, particularly because of the mistakes the week before too.

Again I think his positioning is more the issue than physicality. I watched the game back and Luke Fitz was disappointed with his positioning for the Nadolo try and the yellow card. Neither were easy to defend (the first one usually would be but not against Nadolo) but when the pressure is on he makes bad decisions.

I'm not making him out to be that bad, he's been way worse in games. But the accumulation of poor defensive showings is an issue. And it's a big shame because he's so so good going forward.

The two examples there, whether you call them 'steps' or not (and that's semantics ) are just poor defending.
His decision to come in for the try was also. Nothing to do with a 'strategy' or physicality.

To say that performance 'went to plan' is a bit rich, but I don't actually think Dave believes that either!

[curates_egg]

That was the plan was it Dave?

Nobody expects Byrne to stop him dead. Most players get bumped by Nadolo. But there certainly is an expectation to at least stop his momentum and get in the way, not wave at him going past.
There were multiple times Byrne didn't even lay a hand on his man at all and got stepped, leading to a break.

https://youtu.be/GgWJLfZW2cg?t=42m48s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0h8q6U ... e&t=31m03s

And that's ignoring the other parts of his defensive performance.

If that was the plan working well, I'd hate to see it malfunctioning!

I'll see your clips and raise you this:
https://youtu.be/j0h8q6UpVTw?t=1524

Some tactic alright.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

You're right, it is semantics, but if you're going to be critical then I think I think you need to be fair and call it for what it really was. Look, I know you're not the type of poster to exaggerate for effect and quite clearly he made mistakes, but saying that kind of thing will mean that next time he gets stepped there'll be posts saying "he allllways gets stepped" and that kind of thing bugs me. There's a big difference between a bad read and not committing to the tackle and IMO the former is a far bigger issue with him, even if that wasn't the case in that incident.

[wixfjord]

You're right, it is semantics, but if you're going to be critical then I think I think you need to be fair and call it for what it really was. Look, I know you're not the type of poster to exaggerate for effect and quite clearly he made mistakes, but saying that kind of thing will mean that next time he gets stepped there'll be posts saying "he allllways gets stepped" and that kind of thing bugs me. There's a big difference between a bad read and not committing to the tackle and IMO the former is a far bigger issue with him, even if that wasn't the case in that incident.

That's fair enough, I do think the second was a definitely a 'step', but I take your point on the first.

In the spirit of the forum, let's just agree that he's sh!t and should never play for Leinster again.

Now, how about Luke McGrath's passing eh?

[wixfjord]

I'll see your clips and raise you this:
https://youtu.be/j0h8q6UpVTw?t=1524

Some tactic alright.

I really don't understand what his issue is here. It looks like he's tentative and not putting his full chase/force in. Maybe it's because he has it in his head now that his defense is poor and doesn't want to be shown up with a big fend so just flaps?

Either way, it's not working.

If that were Ferg or DK, they'd be about two meters behind because of pace, but they'd have put their fcukin shoulders into the tackle!

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Well now that you mention him ...I had him in mind when I wrote that but not so much his passing. He missed two bad tackles on Saturday (one on Steyn, can't remember the other) and that's not including the one on Nadolo which was fair enough, but nobody seemed to notice because of the reputation he has and people were even saying how his defence means he needs to start this weekend. Don't get me wrong, I know he's usually an excellent defender, but you get my point about reputation.

[Dave Cahill]

I agree he made errors, but don't think he was as bad as you made out, although certainly not as good as Dave is making out. It's somewhere in between and if he's dropped he can have no complaints, particularly because of the mistakes the week before too.

I never said he was good - what I think was that he was good with the ball in hand and I think he did was he was supposed to without it. I would have preferred more from him defensively than the speed bump he was, but I think that he was acting on a plan and the plan was successful. In the end Nadolo the winger was pretty much entirely negated - Nadolo the battering-ram back row, perhaps not so much.

[BlueBlue]

How bad does Luke McGrath have to play before he can be dropped? JGP played very well- including managing to get the range on box kicks and quick accurate passing in his 20 minutes. I'm not expecting Sexton to play and Ross Byrne deserves and needs a good service and protection if he's to have the best chance to perform.


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By "get the range on box kicks" you mean hand possession over two or three times with no chaser able to get near, right?

No I mean he mostly manged to kick so the chasers could challenge- something that Luke failed to do repeatedly (i.e. much more than "two or three times") for his time on the field. JPG's performance yesterday easily surpassed McGrath's in that respect alone- not to mention in passing. Or don't you agree?

Luke McGrath would be my 1st choice 9.

[mildlyinterested]

said poster has a long held bias against Luke.

[BlueBlue]

Byrnes defence is an issue, the cause might be positioning but the end result is poor defence. To say that he is excellent going forward somehow excuses his defence is ridiculous, most teams we play will be capable of anywhere between 40 and 60% possession, another words half the game is defending. Glasgow have an attack capable of ripping any team asunder. I'm a fan of Byrne, but his defence needs to come good.

[deco]

I agree he made errors, but don't think he was as bad as you made out, although certainly not as good as Dave is making out. It's somewhere in between and if he's dropped he can have no complaints, particularly because of the mistakes the week before too.

I never said he was good - what I think was that he was good with the ball in hand and I think he did was he was supposed to without it. I would have preferred more from him defensively than the speed bump he was, but I think that he was acting on a plan and the plan was successful. In the end Nadolo the winger was pretty much entirely negated - Nadolo the battering-ram back row, perhaps not so much.

That's bang on, Dave

[mildlyinterested]

Leinster haven't won away to Glasgow since 2012.

So probable team:

1. Jack McGrath(28)
2. James Tracy(26)
3. Tadhg Furlong(24)
4. Scott Fardy(33)
5. Devin Toner(31)
6. Rhys Ruddock(26)
7. Josh Van Der Flier(24)
8. Jack Conan(25)
9. Luke McGrath(24)
10. Jonathan Sexton(32)
11. Barry Daly(25)
12. Noel Reid(27)
13. Robbie Henshaw(24)
14. Fergus McFadden(31)
15. Joey Carbery(21)
16. Sean Cronin(31)
17. Cian Healy(30)
18. Michael Bent(31)
19. James Ryan(21)
20. Jordi Murphy(26)
21. JGP(25)
22. Ross Byrne(22)
23. Adam Byrne(23)

[El Diablo]

Leinster haven't won away to Glasgow since 2012.

So probable team:

1. Jack McGrath(28)
2. James Tracy(26)
3. Tadhg Furlong(24)
4. Scott Fardy(33)
5. Devin Toner(31)
6. Rhys Ruddock(26)
7. Josh Van Der Flier(24)
8. Jack Conan(25)
9. Luke McGrath(24)
10. Jonathan Sexton(32)
11. Barry Daly(25)
12. Noel Reid(27)
13. Robbie Henshaw(24)
14. Fergus McFadden(31)
15. Joey Carbery(21)
16. Sean Cronin(31)
17. Cian Healy(30)
18. Michael Bent(31)
19. James Ryan(21)
20. Jordi Murphy(26)
21. JGP(25)
22. Ross Byrne(22)
23. Adam Byrne(23)

Cronin & Healy to start I believe. Leavy on the bench. Murphy is out of 23. Otherwise the above is spot on.

[Laighin Break]

Perhaps Glasgow should be worried about Byrne going forward instead of us worrying about his defense.

I don't think the Leinster coaching team would be overly exercised about his defensive performance last saturday - in fact I'd say that it pretty much went to plan.

Some plan eh! Missing 90% of his tackles, getting stepped multiple times, giving away a yellow and a try.
Can't go much better than that!

If Byrne didn't give away the yellow card, we wouldn't have won the game. He made the right call.
Conceding a try to a behemoth on a one to one from 5 metres out (after the ball getting a lucky/unlucky deflection) is hardly giving away try! Luke McGrath missed a tackle for Nadolo's second try, did he also "give away" a try? Did whoever VdF ran over for his try also "give away" a try?

[molloyjh]

Cronin & Healy to start I believe. Leavy on the bench. Murphy is out of 23. Otherwise the above is spot on.

That's harsh on Jordi if he's been dropped, no?