Leinster's Back Three options going forward

A forum for true blue Leinster supporters to talk about and support their team

Moderator: moderators

Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby leinsterforever » October 19th, 2017, 4:49 pm

Oldschool wrote:
leinsterforever wrote:It does look as if options at fullback will be a bit thin - if they aren't already - but I'm not sure Kelleher is the answer. It seems to me that he's a much more natural wing (and Leinster have loads of those in the wider squad atm). It would have made more sense to sign a fullback than Lowe, but that's neither here nor there. I think you might as well deploy DK at 15 until a promising player worth backing emerges.

It's good if the 15 has outhalf-style creative ability to bring others into play. I'd like to see Kelly go off and play 7s for a bit to develop the vision and passing parts of his game. I read somewhere a player makes 30-50 passes in a weekend of 7s games. That amount of passing practice has got to accelerate the development of a player's capability in this area.

Sounds like a cure for Luke McGrath.
Would a spell of sevens help Adam Byrne's defence issues?


I think Byrne's already played some 7s.
leinsterforever
Enlightened
 
Posts: 911
Joined: March 18th, 2015, 2:20 am

Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby hugonaut » October 19th, 2017, 8:33 pm

OTT wrote:
hugonaut wrote:
c] The guy who convinced him to move to Connacht [Pit Lim] headed off about three months into Kelleher's two year contract, and Connacht have slumped badly since winning the league in 2015-16; they've won just 10 of 28 league games since being crowned champions, and their current form of 2 wins from 7 games is dire. If you've got the option, you don't move clubs so you can play in a worse team at a lower level ... see below.



All your other points make sense from a Leinster perspective but this one to me is the most salient one. If Kelleher was to bail on Connacht would he not be showing again that he does not have the stomach for the fight. He was not happy to work for a full Leinster contract the first time around maybe it is time that he rolled up his sleeves and helped get Connacht up the table. It had to have been a talking point about the character of the guy when he left after signing the development contract within Leinster, I don't see how bailing from a struggling team only a couple of years later would sell yourself to people like Leo, Girv and Mick Dawson who bleed blue. I am not one of these people who hate on players who leave Leinster prematurely like Conway, Ronan etc. but I do think they made their bed so should lie in it. Back the young guys who we are investing time and money in and who want to fight for the right to play for Leinster.


I rarely think of it as "stomach for the fight" when it comes to guys like Conway and Kelleher leaving Leinster – I always think it's more of a "mé féin" move. They're given an option that looks like it allows them to skip the queue, and they go and do it.

There's a correlation between Conway and Kelleher – both of them were pretty egotistical, neither of them felt that they were getting enough gametime and [in my opinion] both of them thought that the act of moving would get such a favourable review from upstairs in the IRFU that they'd get a big pat on the head and a nice green cap as an example to other [Leinster] youngsters to be 'hungrier'.

From my perspective, nineteen out of twenty articles in the Irish rugby media praise young players for leaving Leinster ... if you were a player in that situation, it'd be easy to take that level of inbuilt bias as reflective of a well thought-through, evidence-backed opinion.

When Conway moved south, Declan Kidney was Irish coach at the time and he was picking a lot of Munster players in iffy decisions. My belief is that Conway thought he'd get into the Munster side straight out [maybe because he was told by somebody in Munster that he would] and then he'd be in a prime position to get a shot for Ireland with a selector who was predisposed to him because a] he'd moved to Munster and b] he'd moved to show ambition.

More or less the same thing seems to have happened with Kelleher, except this time Pat Lam was the messiah and Nucifora was the guy behind the scenes saying how great it would be if youngsters took their careers in their own hands, showed the digger spirit and went west for manifest destiny.

So like you OTT I'd be a bit suspect of Kelleher's maturity/temperament/soundness [call it what you will]. But quite often people change as they get older. Beyond that, I think he's a good fit for us and a player who could hit the ground running. Lastly, provinces can't outbid one another, so any offer we make would be dependent on how much Connacht value him ... I think that'd be an interesting figure to know.
User avatar
hugonaut
Brian O'Driscoll
 
Posts: 4732
Joined: May 5th, 2009, 7:44 pm

Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby ronk » October 19th, 2017, 11:57 pm

I liked the signing of Lowe as a winger. It was right at the time but injuries have moved around the need.

I’m less sure of Kelleher, he hasn’t indicated that he’s looking to move and he hasn’t earned promotion through excellent play. He has baggage that could make him disruptive.
User avatar
ronk
Devin Toner
 
Posts: 9236
Joined: April 9th, 2009, 12:42 am

Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby Laighin Break » October 20th, 2017, 8:50 am

leinsterforever wrote:
Oldschool wrote:
leinsterforever wrote:It does look as if options at fullback will be a bit thin - if they aren't already - but I'm not sure Kelleher is the answer. It seems to me that he's a much more natural wing (and Leinster have loads of those in the wider squad atm). It would have made more sense to sign a fullback than Lowe, but that's neither here nor there. I think you might as well deploy DK at 15 until a promising player worth backing emerges.

It's good if the 15 has outhalf-style creative ability to bring others into play. I'd like to see Kelly go off and play 7s for a bit to develop the vision and passing parts of his game. I read somewhere a player makes 30-50 passes in a weekend of 7s games. That amount of passing practice has got to accelerate the development of a player's capability in this area.

Sounds like a cure for Luke McGrath.
Would a spell of sevens help Adam Byrne's defence issues?


I think Byrne's already played some 7s.


Yeah he was playing 7s last year along with Barry and Tom Daly.
User avatar
Laighin Break
Enlightened
 
Posts: 807
Joined: May 3rd, 2012, 9:35 am
Location: Scandinavia

Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby simonokeeffe » October 20th, 2017, 11:02 am

ronk wrote:I liked the signing of Lowe as a winger. It was right at the time but injuries have moved around the need.

I’m less sure of Kelleher, he hasn’t indicated that he’s looking to move and he hasn’t earned promotion through excellent play. He has baggage that could make him disruptive.


I don't think Johnny Sexton's ego would allow for another big ego in the backline :D; if Kelleher was bolshy here am pretty sure he would be put back in his box by the other players or left to cool his heels or moved on, we have a very form based selection ethos these days so if he wants a place he would have to earn it
Retired from babbling. Can be found on twittter @okeeffesimon
User avatar
simonokeeffe
Leo Cullen
 
Posts: 16777
Joined: July 21st, 2011, 3:04 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » October 20th, 2017, 3:50 pm

I'd bring in three potential wingers in the upcoming academy class:

Michael Silvester(Clongowes/DUFC) - experience at fullback and wing at AIL level, 2nd year out of school. Starting on the wing for Leinster A this weekend.
Peter Sullivan(St. Andrews/Lansdowne) - played centre in school, but has moved to wing for Leinster/Ireland. Currently injured. 1st year out of school.
Tom Roche(Blackrock/Lansdowne) - played fullback and outside centre last year in school, made debut for Lansdowne earlier this season on the wing, where he played for Leinster u20.
mildlyinterested
Cian Healy
 
Posts: 2404
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby hugonaut » October 21st, 2017, 12:26 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:I'd bring in three potential wingers in the upcoming academy class:

Michael Silvester(Clongowes/DUFC) - experience at fullback and wing at AIL level, 2nd year out of school. Starting on the wing for Leinster A this weekend.
Peter Sullivan(St. Andrews/Lansdowne) - played centre in school, but has moved to wing for Leinster/Ireland. Currently injured. 1st year out of school.
Tom Roche(Blackrock/Lansdowne) - played fullback and outside centre last year in school, made debut for Lansdowne earlier this season on the wing, where he played for Leinster u20.


I wouldn't bring in three players in one position – there's a bank of gametime at B&I Cup and the lowest standard games of the Pro14 where Leinster staff can accurately assess the progress of academy players, and there's just not enough to go around to progress two academy players in one year for one position, never mind three. Three in one year guarantees wastage of at least one academy spot, probably two.

I don't think we're that skinny at wing. Lowe should arrive soon, and if recent form is anything to go by, he should lock up a wing position. Aki played in 28 games [starting all of them] and Te'o played in 27 games [starting 25 of them] in 2015-16 – when you get a high quality NIQ/NIE player in, he can stamp his name in the team sheet, and start week after week after week. Leinster fans are so used to IRFU interference with selection that we think players "need a break" or need to be rested after three games in a row ... they don't.

Outside the senior squad, Jordan Larmour is obviously a big talent and already looks comfortable at pro level. Hugo Keenan gets good reviews in the academy, although I have to admit I'm not quite convinced: I like him as a player, I'm just not sure that he has the confidence and the competitive streak to really stand out at professional level.

Tommy O'Brien looks like a really talented player from what we saw last year for the Irish U20s – whether he's a winger or a centre, I don't know. He's got a really rounded skillset but has the pace to play wide; I'd consider him similar to Elliot Daly. A lot of people would like ROL as a winger, but I'd prefer O'Brien as a winger and ROL in the centre, at least for the moment. Big size discrepancy at the moment - 5cm in height and 8kg in weight.
User avatar
hugonaut
Brian O'Driscoll
 
Posts: 4732
Joined: May 5th, 2009, 7:44 pm

Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » October 23rd, 2017, 2:27 pm

hugonaut wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:I'd bring in three potential wingers in the upcoming academy class:

Michael Silvester(Clongowes/DUFC) - experience at fullback and wing at AIL level, 2nd year out of school. Starting on the wing for Leinster A this weekend.
Peter Sullivan(St. Andrews/Lansdowne) - played centre in school, but has moved to wing for Leinster/Ireland. Currently injured. 1st year out of school.
Tom Roche(Blackrock/Lansdowne) - played fullback and outside centre last year in school, made debut for Lansdowne earlier this season on the wing, where he played for Leinster u20.


I wouldn't bring in three players in one position – there's a bank of gametime at B&I Cup and the lowest standard games of the Pro14 where Leinster staff can accurately assess the progress of academy players, and there's just not enough to go around to progress two academy players in one year for one position, never mind three. Three in one year guarantees wastage of at least one academy spot, probably two.

I don't think we're that skinny at wing. Lowe should arrive soon, and if recent form is anything to go by, he should lock up a wing position. Aki played in 28 games [starting all of them] and Te'o played in 27 games [starting 25 of them] in 2015-16 – when you get a high quality NIQ/NIE player in, he can stamp his name in the team sheet, and start week after week after week. Leinster fans are so used to IRFU interference with selection that we think players "need a break" or need to be rested after three games in a row ... they don't.

Outside the senior squad, Jordan Larmour is obviously a big talent and already looks comfortable at pro level. Hugo Keenan gets good reviews in the academy, although I have to admit I'm not quite convinced: I like him as a player, I'm just not sure that he has the confidence and the competitive streak to really stand out at professional level.

Tommy O'Brien looks like a really talented player from what we saw last year for the Irish U20s – whether he's a winger or a centre, I don't know. He's got a really rounded skillset but has the pace to play wide; I'd consider him similar to Elliot Daly. A lot of people would like ROL as a winger, but I'd prefer O'Brien as a winger and ROL in the centre, at least for the moment. Big size discrepancy at the moment - 5cm in height and 8kg in weight.


It's a fair point, If Tommy O'B is being viewed as wing long term then likely three more wings from this age group is very unlikely.

Silvester at the moment looks a safe bet for the academy though especially as he is capable of playing 15 too.
mildlyinterested
Cian Healy
 
Posts: 2404
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby curates_egg » October 23rd, 2017, 3:13 pm

Thought both our "old" wingers did reasonably well against stiff opponents on Saturday.
User avatar
curates_egg
Cian Healy
 
Posts: 2171
Joined: November 29th, 2011, 4:50 pm
Location: Brussels, Belgium

Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby arsebiscuits1 » October 24th, 2017, 12:14 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:It's a fair point, If Tommy O'B is being viewed as wing long term then likely three more wings from this age group is very unlikely.

Silvester at the moment looks a safe bet for the academy though especially as he is capable of playing 15 too.


Better not tell irishfan9 that :wink:
He's gotten awfully fond of that brick
arsebiscuits1
Graduate
 
Posts: 661
Joined: November 19th, 2014, 4:53 pm

Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby molloyjh » October 24th, 2017, 1:36 pm

arsebiscuits1 wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:It's a fair point, If Tommy O'B is being viewed as wing long term then likely three more wings from this age group is very unlikely.

Silvester at the moment looks a safe bet for the academy though especially as he is capable of playing 15 too.


Better not tell irishfan9 that :wink:


:green clap:
User avatar
molloyjh
Mullet
 
Posts: 1723
Joined: May 7th, 2009, 3:33 pm

Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » October 25th, 2017, 10:10 am

Both Kelleher and Conway out of contract this summer.
mildlyinterested
Cian Healy
 
Posts: 2404
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby ronk » November 13th, 2017, 2:36 pm

Glad to Rob having a good game. Typical of an experienced master that the guys around him had good games.

Looks like he's trimmed a little while out. Few other guys have done that too. When Toner came in at the start of his season he got smashed a few times in tackles but soon adapted.

I notice that Kearney took a few big hits on Sat and i think he'll get better as he adapts to his weight too.
User avatar
ronk
Devin Toner
 
Posts: 9236
Joined: April 9th, 2009, 12:42 am

Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby riocard911 » November 13th, 2017, 3:42 pm

ronk wrote:Glad to Rob having a good game. Typical of an experienced master that the guys around him had good games.

Looks like he's trimmed a little while out. Few other guys have done that too. When Toner came in at the start of his season he got smashed a few times in tackles but soon adapted.

I notice that Kearney took a few big hits on Sat and i think he'll get better as he adapts to his weight too.


That clearing kick in the second half, where the Boks were pressing our 22m, Murray passed deep to RK under the posts and the latter brought play back to the half way was imperious!!!!
riocard911
Mullet
 
Posts: 1528
Joined: July 27th, 2015, 10:42 pm

Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby Leinsterlunatic » November 13th, 2017, 5:15 pm

Who would you all start on the wing if we had a fully fit selection of wingers?

For me

1. Lowe
2. Daly
3. Byrne
4. Larmour
5. McFadden
6. Kearney

Appreciate that is a bit on hard on Kearney.
Leinsterlunatic
Bookworm
 
Posts: 118
Joined: July 19th, 2017, 10:52 am

Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby Ruckedtobits » November 13th, 2017, 6:11 pm

Leinsterlunatic wrote:Who would you all start on the wing if we had a fully fit selection of wingers?

For me

1. Lowe
2. Daly
3. Byrne
4. Larmour
5. McFadden
6. Kearney

Appreciate that is a bit on hard on Kearney.


Depends who we're playing against.
Ruckedtobits
Malcolm O'Kelly
 
Posts: 3678
Joined: April 10th, 2011, 10:23 am

Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby COYBIB » November 13th, 2017, 8:27 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:Both Kelleher and Conway out of contract this summer.


I think when Leinster invest 10 odd years in a player and he bails as soon as Leinster can see some return on that investment, there should be no place for them to return. I'm of the school of thought that it speaks volumes about their character.

If players leave because they gave it their all and couldn't break into the team, that's all fine and best of luck to them and if they prove Leinster wrong, it would of course be great to see them back, but players who were earmarked for success and get poached based on their undeniable ability, it's for the best those types of characters aren't in the squad.
jezzer wrote:He will never be the second coming of BOD, because the only thing their game shares is probably the appetite for work around the pitch. He'll hopefully be the first coming of Ringrose.
User avatar
COYBIB
Enlightened
 
Posts: 927
Joined: February 27th, 2013, 5:44 pm

Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby ronk » November 13th, 2017, 10:39 pm

COYBIB wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:Both Kelleher and Conway out of contract this summer.


I think when Leinster invest 10 odd years in a player and he bails as soon as Leinster can see some return on that investment, there should be no place for them to return. I'm of the school of thought that it speaks volumes about their character.

If players leave because they gave it their all and couldn't break into the team, that's all fine and best of luck to them and if they prove Leinster wrong, it would of course be great to see them back, but players who were earmarked for success and get poached based on their undeniable ability, it's for the best those types of characters aren't in the squad.


Adam Byrne is in the squad now. It’s taken Conway years and he regressed at first. Kelleher is not in the squad.

The track record of Leinster lads going to Connacht or Munster and coming back is less than stellar.
User avatar
ronk
Devin Toner
 
Posts: 9236
Joined: April 9th, 2009, 12:42 am

Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby Oldschoolsocks » November 14th, 2017, 8:37 pm

COYBIB wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:Both Kelleher and Conway out of contract this summer.


I think when Leinster invest 10 odd years in a player and he bails as soon as Leinster can see some return on that investment, there should be no place for them to return. I'm of the school of thought that it speaks volumes about their character.

If players leave because they gave it their all and couldn't break into the team, that's all fine and best of luck to them and if they prove Leinster wrong, it would of course be great to see them back, but players who were earmarked for success and get poached based on their undeniable ability, it's for the best those types of characters aren't in the squad.

+1

Nail your colours to the mast - and on the other side of that coin Connacht should feel exactly the same about our Robbie
I just wanted to see Gordon D'Arcy get a 'back, sack and crack wax'
User avatar
Oldschoolsocks
Mullet
 
Posts: 1992
Joined: January 4th, 2015, 11:36 am
Location: Stepping out of the Supernova

Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby Xanthippe » November 15th, 2017, 4:40 am

ronk wrote:
The track record of Leinster lads going to Connacht or Munster and coming back is less than stellar.


Oy - careful now :evil:
#LiveLifeLoveLeinster

#BeSeenBeHeardBeBlueBELIEVE



I'm a Book Mark and damn proud of it. Storm 1:08 forever
User avatar
Xanthippe
Malcolm O'Kelly
 
Posts: 3543
Joined: September 5th, 2008, 6:48 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Leinster Addicts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: COYBIB, wixfjord and 12 guests