Leinster's Backrow going forward.

[mildlyinterested]

I'd say Timmins is almost certain to leave as well, and you'd think Josh Murphy will get a deal. So, next season:

No.8: Heaslip, Conan, Deegan (+ Dorris)
7: VDF, Leavy (+ new academy entrant, possibly Richard Dunne)
6.5: SOB
6: Ruddock, Josh Murphy (+ Connors)

Doris more likely to play 6 than Connors, also I'd say Doris will move to a dev deal next season.

[blockhead]

Ruddock signs new 2 year deal.

[curates_egg]

Rhys possibly out for the rest of the season
https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 00632.html
Disaster for him as he was on stunning form.
Can we keep Jordi?

[mildlyinterested]

Rhys possibly out for the rest of the season
https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 00632.html
Disaster for him as he was on stunning form.
Can we keep Jordi?

Jordi isn't going anywhere this season.

[Ruckedtobits]

The more we see of Jack Conan in top level games, the more apparent it becomes that he is not Jamie Heaslip Mark II. He is to Jamie what Exeter's Simmons is to England's Vunipola. More outright pace, less strength and guile, and infinitely less experience.

The best New Year's gift For Leo, Girv and Burt would be Jamie's return off the bench v Glasgow followed by 60 mins away v Montpelier.

SO'B no longer has the emotional engine (or maybe the tank) for four big games in six weeks. He was only ordinary on Saturday, by his standards, and looked out of juice long before he departed the field. Leavy's arrival and impact makes a direct comparison inevitable and Dan the Man was definitely the winner in that contest, at least for impact, if not endeavour.

JvDF, was not suited to a game like Saturday, despite his huge tackle count. We need him to be playing off front-foot ball if we are to get the best benefit from his skill-set, by linking with our mid-field and back three offloads and tackling opposition mid-field and half-backs under pressure.

There is definitely a role for Jordi over the balance of the Season in playing in games like last Saturday where his unique blend of stamina and football smarts cause a nuisance to opponents who retain the ball and have a majority of possession e.g. Glasgow, Munster, Scarlets, Connacht and possibly Ospreys.

Rhys will be missed but we have cover for some of his endeavour. Josh Murphy and Max Deegan will get more minutes as a result of his absence and this will undoubtedly enhance our line-out and continuity.

It is only when our back-row dominate opponents that you realise how much we miss that when they are not on top. They weren't for the first 55 mins on Sat and that became most evident in last 20 mins where Leavy, then Conan and even Josh figured prominantly as line breakers who, ultimately, proved the difference on the scoreboard.

Trying to differentiate a game plan which suits Jack Conan's open-field running and off-loading in contrast to Jamie's hand-to-hand warfare will be very difficult. But it will be worth the effort, if we are to get the best return from both of them over the balance of this season. Maybe Jack's best game time is when opponents have had to defend against us for 55 mins and don't anticipate a No 8 who can create line breaks and score from mid-field by strength and pace.

Whatever the tactics we devise and assuming we will see Jamie return, we really do need to have dominant players, both defensively and offensively, if the team is to win trophies this Season. Producing wins and big emotional perfirmances now is great but this group, and particularly their Coaches know that we will need better than the current standard to actually put our hands on trophies this season.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I thought Conan and SOB were much better when I watched it back than watching it live.

Supposedly SOB was injured and touch and go to actually make the game so I'd give him some slack because of that too.

I've actually been really impressed with Conan's close in carrying and breakdown work recently. He's not making the big breaks that he was making last season but I think he's been just as effective in different ways. He's come up with brilliant steals and his ability to make an extra yard or two in contact (quite often with a big handoff to asecond defender as another nearly has him down already) is brilliant. I think he's been targeted more and is actually reacting really well.

[johng]

SO'B no longer has the emotional engine (or maybe the tank) for four big games in six weeks. He was only ordinary on Saturday, by his standards, and looked out of juice long before he departed the field. Leavy's arrival and impact makes a direct comparison inevitable and Dan the Man was definitely the winner in that contest.

SOB looked like he was limping to me towards the end of this stint

[paddyor]

I think Rhys makes a big difference to Conans carrying. When he's there trucking it up 10+ times closer to the ruck(and usually making yards) you can have Conan a little further out to make the break. Also think we missed his rucking. SOB was very quiet Saturday.

[curates_egg]

I referenced it elsewhere, but here is the hatchet job on SOB:
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/sean-obr ... ter-144541
People just need to accept it for what it is: if we get 6 games of fully fit SOB a season, we're doing well. It has been this way since 2013.

As for Heaslip and Conan, the 'bright new thing' brigade has been frothing at the mouth about the latter but - while his carrying, general athleticism and distribution is a sight to behold - you simply cannot expect anyone to replicate the influence and experience of Heaslip. He dragged us through games through intelligence and work-rate. I sincerely hope we will see him this season but it is a bit too smoke and mirrors for my liking.

I've always been a huge fan of Ruddock and think his loss could really hurt us. He was really missing on Saturday, both his tireless grunty carrying and his work in defence.

All the 'bright new things' look hugely talented. Leavy, Conan, VdF and Deegan all have the potential to equal (or maybe surpass) what has gone before. But I don't subscribe to the notion that they can just take over with no downsides.

[OTT]

I think Jack is doing just grand. We want Jamie back naturally because he has been one of the best 8's in the world consistently over the last decade, that is to take nothing away from Jack who has allowed us to get on with it and not feel the loss of a player of Jamie's magnitude as much as other teams would.

SOB put in a load of tackles at the weekend and a lot of close in carries he put in the hard yards and Leavy benefited later in the match. Some games are like that. Great having them all in the squad.

[mildlyinterested]

Jamie Heaslip(34) - looking unlikely to return from injury.
Sean O'Brien(31) - out with a reoccurence of hip injury.
Rhys Ruddock(27) - out until end of 6 nations at least.
Jordi Murphy(27) - leaving for Ulster at end of the season.
Jack Conan(25) - Signed contract in 2017
Josh Van Der Flier(25) - out for the rest of the season.
Dan Leavy(24) - Signed contract in 2017
Peadar Timmins(24) - Signed contract in 2017
Max Deegan(21) - Signed contract in 2017

Josh Murphy(23) - Academy Year 3
Will Connors(21) - Academy Year 2
Caelan Doris(20) - injured

bold = healthy at the moment

[CiaranIrl]

Jamie Heaslip(34) - looking unlikely to return from injury.
Sean O'Brien(31) - out with a reoccurence of hip injury.
Rhys Ruddock(27) - out until end of 6 nations at least.
Jordi Murphy(27) - leaving for Ulster at end of the season.
Jack Conan(25) - Signed contract in 2017
Josh Van Der Flier(25) - out for the rest of the season.
Dan Leavy(24) - Signed contract in 2017
Peadar Timmins(24) - Signed contract in 2017
Max Deegan(21) - Signed contract in 2017

Josh Murphy(23) - Academy Year 3
Will Connors(21) - Academy Year 2
Caelan Doris(20) - injured

bold = healthy at the moment

Jesus, that's stark. If two of Leavy, Jordi, Conan or O'Brien come back broken from Ireland camp, our season could be ruined. I doubt we'll see Ruddock back this season.

[neiliog93]

Not necessarily, if we say SOB is unavailable vs Saracens (not exactly unlikely) and say Leavy gets injured, we could still field the following back row:

6.Fardy 8.Conan 7.Jordi

19.M.Kearney 20.Deegan

James Ryan and Toner starting in the second row.

[Laighin Break]

I think I might reconsider my opinion on POM starting for Ireland. Having POM and Stander in the backrow for the 6N lessens our chances of injuries

[FLIP]

I think I might reconsider my opinion on POM starting for Ireland. Having POM and Stander in the backrow for the 6N lessens our chances of injuries

JVDF may not have been injured if he wasn't doing the work of two men to make up for POM.

[curates_egg]

I think I might reconsider my opinion on POM starting for Ireland. Having POM and Stander in the backrow for the 6N lessens our chances of injuries

JVDF may not have been injured if he wasn't doing the work of two men to make up for POM.

Nobody makes up for POM's (lack of) carrying more than Stander but I get your point: it does put added pressure on whoever else has to pick up the slack. Henderson, Stander and VDF/Leavy this time.

[olaf the fat]

Think about the headache of facing a team with a back row of Josh, SOB & Jamie - if all were fit. Yes we have some depth - but other teams will be happy with our woes.

[mildlyinterested]

Two backrows made Ireland u20 squad with Caelan Doris out:

Max Kearney(DUFC)
Ronan Foley(UCD)

Both look unlikely to make the academy at the moment.

[Dave Cahill]

Depending on the selection for Italy, might Max Kearney not be needed on Friday night for the bench at least?

[mildlyinterested]

Depending on the selection for Italy, might Max Kearney not be needed on Friday night for the bench at least?

suppose it's possible alright, he didn't make ireland u20 squad, could be leinster related.