Leinster's Backrow going forward.

[neiliog93]

What's the point in drafting in Tony Ryan or David O'Connor? We know they're not good enough. Back the academy lads instead who are probably good enough already, and if not may become so.

[fourthirtythree]

What's the point in drafting in Tony Ryan or David O'Connor? We know they're not good enough. Back the academy lads instead who are probably good enough already, and if not may become so.

As Fogarty said in the presser yesterday "we're in the business of development". It's what has changed our downward trajectory.

[A16]

What's the point in drafting in Tony Ryan or David O'Connor? We know they're not good enough. Back the academy lads instead who are probably good enough already, and if not may become so.

Leinster will be pretty bare on opensides next season if they don’t get some cover. Leavy and Van der Flier will be injured/on Ireland duty for large periods. They actually are backing an academy in Will Connors. It’s just there’s no one else in the academy to fill in if he becomes unavailable for whatever reason. I’m sure a stopgap replacement from the AIL for a short time will be fine, it’s not like they’ll be playing that many games anyway.

[CiaranIrl]

What's the point in drafting in Tony Ryan or David O'Connor? We know they're not good enough. Back the academy lads instead who are probably good enough already, and if not may become so.

Leinster will be pretty bare on opensides next season if they don’t get some cover. Leavy and Van der Flier will be injured/on Ireland duty for large periods. They actually are backing an academy in Will Connors. It’s just there’s no one else in the academy to fill in if he becomes unavailable for whatever reason. I’m sure a stopgap replacement from the AIL for a short time will be fine, it’s not like they’ll be playing that many games anyway.

It's a difficult problem though. You're looking for someone who would be ok with being third choice, yet good enough to play at the required standard. I still can't think of anyone better than Gilsenan out there that might fit the bill. I'd be all for backing an academy lad, but we simply don't have them in there right now. Sounds like we will in about 2 years, but next year looks like a problem.

[leinsterforever]

Is this the same Tony Ryan that was in the squad a couple of years ago?

Yeah

What's the point in drafting in Tony Ryan or David O'Connor? We know they're not good enough. Back the academy lads instead who are probably good enough already, and if not may become so.

I suggest bringing in some AIL lads precisely because Connors and especially Deegan and Doris are good enough to step up and replace the departing players. It's just some extra squad depth that's needed.

[curates_egg]

so because 1 backrow is leaving they should sign 4?

1 backrow?

Heaslip, Murphy and Timmins are 100% definitely gone from the squad.
SOB might or might not play his customary 6 games. I wouldn't bet on it.

Beyond those, both Ruddock and VDF are injured an awful, awful lot.
From what I understand/have heard, Fardy isn't totally happy playing 6 - he wants to save his body a bit by playing second row. If that's true, I don't think we will see much of him at 6 next season.

My ideal solution would be Murphy not going to the 'basket case'. He must be having second thoughts, as BOD said.
I guess an even more ideal solution would be some decent Safa backrow, who we can select without the arbitrary restrictions and who will be available for us in February and November to provide a bit of experience. If there was one available though, I'm sure the IRFU would have signed him for Munster.

[mildlyinterested]

Heaslip -> Deegan
Timmins -> Doris
Murphy -> Connors

with a sub academy full of talented young backrows pushing for academy places.

[Ruckedtobits]

so because 1 backrow is leaving they should sign 4?

1 backrow?

Heaslip, Murphy and Timmins are 100% definitely gone from the squad.
SOB might or might not play his customary 6 games. I wouldn't bet on it.

Beyond those, both Ruddock and VDF are injured an awful, awful lot.
From what I understand/have heard, Fardy isn't totally happy playing 6 - he wants to save his body a bit by playing second row. If that's true, I don't think we will see much of him at 6 next season.

My ideal solution would be Murphy not going to the 'basket case'. He must be having second thoughts, as BOD said.
I guess an even more ideal solution would be some decent Safa backrow, who we can select without the arbitrary restrictions and who will be available for us in February and November to provide a bit of experience. If there was one available though, I'm sure the IRFU would have signed him for Munster.

Very strongly resist the idea of bringing in any NIQ at this point. We have a number of capped back-rows and a smaller number of developing players. We have an Academy and Sub-Academy structure which will unearth further talent in the next two seasons. It may be that there will be some fast-tracking of players but that can take place in due course.

Remember, we've seen Timoney and Oliver go to Ulster and Munster and players like Gilsenan and others go to London Irish & elsewhere beyond the shores. The backrow production system is working, it just needs specific focus from time to time.

[curates_egg]

Heaslip -> Deegan
Timmins -> Doris
Murphy -> Connors

with a sub academy full of talented young backrows pushing for academy places.

Our academy is superb and you do a great job of following all the players in the youth system.
I have no doubt both of those players will step up, as they seem to be highly rated by people in the know.
But, while you in particular don't seem to agree, it is a pretty commonly held view that you need experience in a squad.
Will Connors cannot replace what we lose in Murphy. He is also already playing in the squad, so he is not replacing Murphy in any sense.
Nobody can replace what we lose in Heaslip - or would lose in SOB.

[wixfjord]

From what I understand/have heard, Fardy isn't totally happy playing 6 - he wants to save his body a bit by playing second row. If that's true, I don't think we will see much of him at 6 next season.

Where did you hear that?

[mildlyinterested]

Heaslip -> Deegan
Timmins -> Doris
Murphy -> Connors

with a sub academy full of talented young backrows pushing for academy places.

Our academy is superb and you do a great job of following all the players in the youth system.
I have no doubt both of those players will step up, as they seem to be highly rated by people in the know.
But, while you in particular don't seem to agree, it is a pretty commonly held view that you need experience in a squad.
Will Connors cannot replace what we lose in Murphy. He is also already playing in the squad, so he is not replacing Murphy in any sense.
Nobody can replace what we lose in Heaslip - or would lose in SOB.

We have experience in the backrow with 5 backrowers with 50+ caps.

Rhys Ruddock - 140 caps
Sean O'Brien - 116 caps
Jack Conan - 70 caps
Josh Van Der Flier - 60 caps
Dan Leavy - 52 caps

Below that we have Deegan(19), Murphy(9), Connors(3) and Doris(0) all developing.

No one has claimed that Heaslip will be easily replaced, nor Murphy.. but it's the nature of developing players, they only improve and gain experience by playing.

[curates_egg]

From what I understand/have heard, Fardy isn't totally happy playing 6 - he wants to save his body a bit by playing second row. If that's true, I don't think we will see much of him at 6 next season.

Where did you hear that?

Grapevine.
But there was also some interview with him last week where he said he was happy to fill in for now but alluded to it being temporary.

[curates_egg]

Heaslip -> Deegan
Timmins -> Doris
Murphy -> Connors

with a sub academy full of talented young backrows pushing for academy places.

Our academy is superb and you do a great job of following all the players in the youth system.
I have no doubt both of those players will step up, as they seem to be highly rated by people in the know.
But, while you in particular don't seem to agree, it is a pretty commonly held view that you need experience in a squad.
Will Connors cannot replace what we lose in Murphy. He is also already playing in the squad, so he is not replacing Murphy in any sense.
Nobody can replace what we lose in Heaslip - or would lose in SOB.

We have experience in the backrow with 5 backrowers with 50+ caps.

Rhys Ruddock - 140 caps
Sean O'Brien - 116 caps
Jack Conan - 70 caps
Josh Van Der Flier - 60 caps
Dan Leavy - 52 caps

Below that we have Deegan(19), Murphy(9), Connors(3) and Doris(0) all developing.

No one has claimed that Heaslip will be easily replaced, nor Murphy.. but it's the nature of developing players, they only improve and gain experience by playing.

We're going round in circles a bit but I honestly don't see Ruddock, SOB and VDF managing 20 combined games between them (for a host of reasons). I will be delighted if I am wrong. Ruddock, in particular, deserves an injury-free season. He is such a superb player and really deserves a shot at a world cup.

[mildlyinterested]

They managed 29 combined games this season.

The only backrow who played significant minutes this season that won't be here next season is Jordi.

[Laighin Break]

Ruddock can also cover openside at a push. Didn't he play a stormer against the SA at openside a few years back?

[curates_egg]

Ruddock can also cover openside at a push. Didn't he play a stormer against the SA at openside a few years back?

He's a super player. While he's the best blindside in Ireland, he can play any position in the backrow if needed and has never really let us down at second row. However, I can't remember a season in which he wasn't injured.

[mildlyinterested]

Ruddock can also cover openside at a push. Didn't he play a stormer against the SA at openside a few years back?

He's a super player. While he's the best blindside in Ireland, he can play any position in the backrow if needed and has never really let us down at second row. However, I can't remember a season in which he wasn't injured.

He played 18 games last season, started 20 games in 15-16 and he played 23 games in 13-14.

[curates_egg]

Ruddock can also cover openside at a push. Didn't he play a stormer against the SA at openside a few years back?

He's a super player. While he's the best blindside in Ireland, he can play any position in the backrow if needed and has never really let us down at second row. However, I can't remember a season in which he wasn't injured.

He played 18 games last season, started 20 games in 15-16 and he played 23 games in 13-14.

That's me told.

[OTT]

He played 18 games last season, started 20 games in 15-16 and he played 23 games in 13-14.

That's me told.

Ah I think he has been very unfortunate with injuries at big times in his career. Think he has missed a lot of Irish games because of injury just when he looks like he is gonna nick yer mans jersey . November Internationals, 6 Nations, the World Cup (then he got back in at the end because of injuries to others). He definitely has been unlucky with injuries from an Irish context and that has sometimes knocked back to then being out of the Leinster 15 because others have taken their chance.

I also think we need another body or two in the back row next season just from a sheer numbers pov when you take in players minutes/Nov internationals/6 Nations. If we don't need them great but I would like to know we have options if we have 3, 4 or 5 away with Ireland at any given time. Then hopefully only the odd injury to deal with. It wont stop the young lads development it would just mean we can have a match day 23 with 4 back row forwards at all stages of the season.

[mildlyinterested]

if for instance next season leinster are down Ruddock/JVDF/SOB due to injury:

6. Fardy or Murphy or Doris
7. Leavy or Connors
8. Conan or Deegan