Ulster vs Leinster: Saturday 28th, 18.30 (BBC & Sky)

[Dave Cahill]

And pace isn't the most important thing in a SH, in fact if you've the stronger pack all you need to do is keep things ticking over at their tempo. Let them grind the oppo down

True. Passing is though. JGPis probably the best passer among our 9s. That has to count for something.


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Thats why Christian Saverimutto is so fondly remembered alright.

[paddyor]

And pace isn't the most important thing in a SH, in fact if you've the stronger pack all you need to do is keep things ticking over at their tempo. Let them grind the oppo down

True. Passing is though. JGPis probably the best passer among our 9s. That has to count for something.


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He wasn't last night. Do people have a blind spot for all the times he threw dodgy passes last night.

[curates_egg]

JGP was poor.

That wasn't my view of his performance. I thought he used our forward dominance to great effect and had their defence totally bamboozled.

He turned the ball over about 4 times. Also his passing wasn't great, he's guys reaching for their boot laces several times.

I would agree he turned the ball over 4 times. I would also say that McGrath tends to turn over lots and not get judged by the same yardstick. McGrath's typical passing game involves heads, shoulders, knees and toes routines for the receivers...but, again, people gloss over it. I can remember one questionable pass from JGP last night, where he was trying to get ROL to run on to it. I actually thought he passed better than McGrath has in all but one game this season.

I don't buy that he couldn't have got in the corner. McGrath was able to barge over thru 2 forwards from a few metres out. Maybe a bit harsh holding it against him (because it could have gone either way), but you have to make more of those chances.

I think he should have sold Stockdale a dummy and gone low and for the corner. He should have ignored Kearney.
He was never going to barge Stockdale and it is not serious to suggest that that was the right option.
All that said: it was a yellow card at least and, arguably, a penalty try, and I really don't get why we didn't appeal and/or the linesman/TMO didn't flag it.

[hugonaut]

you'd fear for Ulster travelling to SA shorn of a lot of leadership, Best, Herring, Henderson and maybe more

As it's an away game on a Friday I fear the only player we might get back will be RK as he is the only one needing gametime

If you exclude the players in the Ireland squad and those injured these are our only senior backs available for the Glasgow match:

Gibson-Park, McCarthy, Ross Byrne, Marsh, O'Loughlin, McFadden

Injured: Tom Daly, Barry Daly, Reid, Ringrose, Nacewa

Ireland: McGrath, Sexton, Carbery, Henshaw, Adam Byrne, Dave Kearney, Rob Kearney.

Injuries are much tougher on Leinster than Ireland on that list.

Suppose Larmour gets a start. Might be a chance to try Byrne one March as centre.

We look very lightweight – as you would expect – with all those guys ruled out. We're particularly shorn of a lot of talent at centre with Ringrose, Reid, Daly and Nacewa [who has only played centre this season] all out injured.

I saw Conor O'Brien sitting with the subs up in Belfast, which might indicate that he is in contention for a debut against Glasgow. I saw some highlights of Jimmy O'Brine playing very well recently in the B&I Cup, it'd be good to see him involved in some capacity. I don't think either Marsh or Ross Byrne have any future as a centre: one is too lightweight, the other too slow. Don't see the point of playing either of them out of position in an already weakened team – there's very little chance for the experiment to succeed.

[15-9]: R. Kearney, F. McFadden, R. O'Loughlin, C. O'Brien [A], J. Larmour [A], R. Byrne, N. McCarthy
[1-8]: P. Dooley, S. Cronin, M. Bent, S. Fardy, R. Molony, C. Doris [A], J. Murphy, M. Deegan
[16-23]: R. Strauss, E. Byrne, A. Porter, M. Kearney, P. Timmins, J. Gibson-Park, C. Marsh, J. O'Brien [A]

[paddyor]

1 tackle made, 4 missed......but he's a great passer a lot of the time.

[Dave Cahill]

He was never going to barge Stockdale and it is not serious to suggest that that was the right option.

I don't think anyone would suggest it. What I suggested was that he should have driven into Stockdale meaning that Stockdale couldn't convert enough of JGPs forward momentuum into sideways momentuum to drive him into touch before he'd crossed the tryline - it's a pretty standard technique. Daly did it the other week.

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[ronk]

Think we'll have Kearney? Ireland dont have much cover if he gets hurt.

I suppose we can only hope that Glasgow are similarly affected.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Delighted with that performance. It basically had most of the things we were missing in the poor performances at the start of the season. Our set piece has improved hugely, we're far more clinical, and our defence is much better too. Said it after another game recently but our cover defence and ability to reorganise quickly is top class. In a game like yesterday when we're defending well off the first couple of phases anyway (compared to the start of the season) then it makes us very very hard to score against and I thought you could see the confidence in the players to just trust the systems and counter-punch when the time came. Ulster shot their bolt early and we just grew stronger.

Thought we targeted the breakdown really well. I usually hate Lacey's reffing of the breakdown because he doesn't allow much of a contest or reward guys who get over the ball but we had some really good steals. Tracey's one near our line summed up what I'm saying about the confidence in our defence. We were under the pump but stayed well organised and when he saw the opportunity to get the ball he grabbed it with both hands and we cleared our lines. Molony gave away a stupid penalty but don't remember us doing many other stupid things and he played well apart from that. He seems to be good for at least one howler every game but I do think he's coming back to form, had one great tackle on Piutau when he was nearly away.

Dev is nearly back to his best too. He missed a couple of tackles but his workrate was phenomenal again. At one stage Leavy was very slow to get back in the line and Dev sprinted into the position he should have been occupying. Might sound like a small thing but his hunger to defend is extraordinary, it was the same when he seemed on a personal mission to stop Nadolo. The back row had an odd sort of balance but thought it worked really well. SOB was deservedly MOTM and seemed to be able to lift his performance at will, but thought Jordi and Leavy were very good too. The break from SOB was great but I particularly liked the way he got it right after he blew a couple of those breaks a while back (can't remember when exactly but there were two in quick succession).

JGP was very mixed for me but poor overall. His passing was generally very good, he created space for others, and his box kicks were good too, but some of his decision making was really poor. I don't get the point about keeping defences honest, to me that looks like him getting isolated and ignoring better options. He got turned over because of it and, as I've said before, he looks like a hard player for his team mates to read. It can be difficult to know what he's planning when watching on TV so must be even harder on the pitch. One thing summed it up for me, the two kicks down the line from himself and Luke. Luke executed it fairly poorly but he obviously had a clear idea of going blind and kicking to touch to put pressure on their lineout/kill time...but when JGP tried breaking blind earlier he ended up panicking and booting it fairly aimlessly. The crossfield kick was just weird, really poor and hard to fathom.

Apart from a couple of duff kicks I thought Ross Byrne was very good, looks so much more confident than a month or so ago.

Outside backs were all quite impressive, especially after the early disruption. ROL defended well and I thought it was great that Rob was so willing to have a cut. He got hit hard a few times but still looked very threatening. It was a great tussle between Adam and Stockdale but that was one of the most complete games I've seen him have. He ran the ball back really well, competed well in the air (the aerial battle between them was brilliant) and apart from one poor attempt at tackling their 9 I thought he looked assured in defence although I'd need to watch it again to make sure. Stockdale had a great first half but don't particularly remember Adam being responsible.

Really encouraging overall, particularly after making all those changes.

[artaneboy]

The key to getting the best out of Gibson-Park is to not let him think - if he doesn't have to think then he's fine, keeps things ticking along at a nice pace. Its when he has to think though - which kind of happens a lot in NH rugby - that the problems start

So... does preventing ‘having to think’ not equate with brainless? Or is there another definition of the sense of your posts?


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[ronk]

He was never going to barge Stockdale and it is not serious to suggest that that was the right option.

I don't think anyone would suggest it. What I suggested was that he should have driven into Stockdale meaning that Stockdale couldn't convert enough of JGPs forward momentuum into sideways momentuum to drive him into touch before he'd crossed the tryline - it's a pretty standard technique. Daly did it the other week.

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That kick wasnt the normal JGP thing, passing rather than backing himself for the chance at a try. These are decision making errors of someone who's trying to play a different style/scheme.

Same with some of the long box kicks.


If thats the reason you're making mistakes you probably shpuld get a bit of extra patience.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Also I thought Ulster got away with a huge number of high tackles. They seemed to go for double tackles in midfield and loads of them were high, and it also meant they left more space on the outside. We were stronger individually but their defensive tactics just didn't work.

[artaneboy]

And pace isn't the most important thing in a SH, in fact if you've the stronger pack all you need to do is keep things ticking over at their tempo. Let them grind the oppo down

True. Passing is though. JGPis probably the best passer among our 9s. That has to count for something.


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Thats why Christian Saverimutto is so fondly remembered alright.

Passing is a ‘necessary’ skill- not a ‘sufficient’ one.


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[artaneboy]

1 tackle made, 4 missed......but he's a great passer a lot of the time.

What!! That’s not my memory of his tackle count. But I’ll look at it again on the recording tonight and come back to you one way or the other on it.


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[simonokeeffe]

Can we have a special thread for discussing which of McGrath or JGP is the devil incarnate?

[CiaranIrl]

Can we have a special thread for discussing which of McGrath or JGP is the devil incarnate?

You would think "Leinster's Halfback Options going forward" from three days ago would be a good place, but no, 0 replies. Better to infect every other thread instead.

[Dave Cahill]

The key to getting the best out of Gibson-Park is to not let him think - if he doesn't have to think then he's fine, keeps things ticking along at a nice pace. Its when he has to think though - which kind of happens a lot in NH rugby - that the problems start

So... does preventing ‘having to think’ not equate with brainless? Or is there another definition of the sense of your posts?


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Of course there is, the world isn't binary.

JGP is an instinct player, what used to be called a street footballer - he does what he does by instinct. He doesn't have a vast tactical appreciation for the game, that much is blatantly obvious over the length of his Leinster career to date. When he is in a situation where he has to pause and think his way through a situation, he doesn't have that nous - like a player who can only kick with one foot, it's a skill he lacks. In Ireland the scrum half is a primary decision maker, at least as much as the outhalf is. Look at the last couple of regular Irish scrumhalves. Murray, Reddan, Stringer, Bradley. Some were well rounded in terms of the full skillset, some not, all were excellent decision makers. On the other hand there were a couple of Irish scrumhalves who weren't great decision makers in the late 90s and we really troughed.

[paddyor]

1 tackle made, 4 missed......but he's a great passer a lot of the time.

What!! That’s not my memory of his tackle count. But I’ll look at it again on the recording tonight and come back to you one way or the other on it.


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On ESPN and ultimate rugby.i can't think of many players who walk away from 4 turnovers, 4 missed tackles and 2 botched tries with a favourable review.

[Dave Cahill]

Peter O'Mahoney.
































<legger>

[paddyor]

Can we have a special thread for discussing which of McGrath or JGP is the devil incarnate?

You would think "Leinster's Halfback Options going forward" from three days ago would be a good place, but no, 0 replies. Better to infect every other thread instead.

Ah here, It's something that's going to come up again and again. That's what this place is for.

[paddyor]

Peter O'Mahoney.


<legger>

Yeah but makes up for it with pointing and shoelace tying etc. Dog I believe it's called.