Ulster vs Leinster: Saturday 28th, 18.30 (BBC & Sky)

[simonokeeffe]

Can we have a special thread for discussing which of McGrath or JGP is the devil incarnate?

You would think "Leinster's Halfback Options going forward" from three days ago would be a good place, but no, 0 replies. Better to infect every other thread instead.

Ah here, It's something that's going to come up again and again. That's what this place is for.

And again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again until people realise JGP is the David Fairclough of scrumhalves and again and again and again and again and again

[paddyor]

Scrumhalf Day.

The forum has the debate every week until either McGrath or JGP play the perfect game (includes pointing).

[simonokeeffe]

Scrumhalf Day.

The forum has the debate every week until either McGrath or JGP play the perfect game (includes pointing).

It's all MOC's fault for not playing Madigan at 9

[hugonaut]

Peter O'Mahoney.
<legger>

If do right, no can defense.

[riocard911]

Peter O'Mahoney.


<legger>

Yeah but makes up for it with pointing and shoelace tying etc. Dog I believe it's called.

Nigel wasn't very amenable to Peter's captain chat, when he was trying to prevent his pal Conway getting red carded for pole-axing Jack Carty with an flying elbow to the jaw. He gave him short shrift, I can tell you!!!

[Experimental]

Really nice win for us. Great try by Larmour. I dont think Ive seen Dev Toner have a better game, he is really going in the right direction now.

[fourthirtythree]

Dev is nearly back to his best too. He missed a couple of tackles but his workrate was phenomenal again. At one stage Leavy was very slow to get back in the line and Dev sprinted into the position he should have been occupying. Might sound like a small thing but his hunger to defend is extraordinary, it was the same when he seemed on a personal mission to stop Nadolo.
.

You were listening to me and the Da talking earlier were you? That's pretty much what we were saying. He really impressed us. He's a lot of games played and his dip in form last year was disappointing but he's back as the cornerstone of the Irish pack

Obviously if he were to be talked of as a leader he should have shouted "get up Danny, we need you in the line". But maybe that will come in time.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Dev is nearly back to his best too. He missed a couple of tackles but his workrate was phenomenal again. At one stage Leavy was very slow to get back in the line and Dev sprinted into the position he should have been occupying. Might sound like a small thing but his hunger to defend is extraordinary, it was the same when he seemed on a personal mission to stop Nadolo.
.

You were listening to me and the Da talking earlier were you? That's pretty much what we were saying. He really impressed us. He's a lot of games played and his dip in form last year was disappointing but he's back as the cornerstone of the Irish pack

Obviously if he were to be talked of as a leader he should have shouted "get up Danny, we need you in the line". But maybe that will come in time.

Pointing lessons also required

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Dev is nearly back to his best too. He missed a couple of tackles but his workrate was phenomenal again. At one stage Leavy was very slow to get back in the line and Dev sprinted into the position he should have been occupying. Might sound like a small thing but his hunger to defend is extraordinary, it was the same when he seemed on a personal mission to stop Nadolo.
.

You were listening to me and the Da talking earlier were you? That's pretty much what we were saying.

No...son.

[paddyor]

Dev is nearly back to his best too. He missed a couple of tackles but his workrate was phenomenal again. At one stage Leavy was very slow to get back in the line and Dev sprinted into the position he should have been occupying. Might sound like a small thing but his hunger to defend is extraordinary, it was the same when he seemed on a personal mission to stop Nadolo.
.

You were listening to me and the Da talking earlier were you? That's pretty much what we were saying.

No...son.

[fourthirtythree]

Dev is nearly back to his best too. He missed a couple of tackles but his workrate was phenomenal again. At one stage Leavy was very slow to get back in the line and Dev sprinted into the position he should have been occupying. Might sound like a small thing but his hunger to defend is extraordinary, it was the same when he seemed on a personal mission to stop Nadolo.
.

You were listening to me and the Da talking earlier were you? That's pretty much what we were saying.

No...son.

I knew you posted on here. Listen, I'm good for the loan. Okay?

[curates_egg]

Dev is nearly back to his best too. He missed a couple of tackles but his workrate was phenomenal again. At one stage Leavy was very slow to get back in the line and Dev sprinted into the position he should have been occupying. Might sound like a small thing but his hunger to defend is extraordinary, it was the same when he seemed on a personal mission to stop Nadolo.
.

You were listening to me and the Da talking earlier were you? That's pretty much what we were saying. He really impressed us. He's a lot of games played and his dip in form last year was disappointing but he's back as the cornerstone of the Irish pack

Obviously if he were to be talked of as a leader he should have shouted "get up Danny, we need you in the line". But maybe that will come in time.

Pointing lessons also required

He'll never be as good a lineout option as POM lads.

[artaneboy]

1 tackle made, 4 missed......but he's a great passer a lot of the time.

What!! That’s not my memory of his tackle count. But I’ll look at it again on the recording tonight and come back to you one way or the other on it.


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On ESPN and ultimate rugby.i can't think of many players who walk away from 4 turnovers, 4 missed tackles and 2 botched tries with a favourable review.

On those figures- watched it again this morning with those ESPN tackle stats in mind. I honestly can’t find 4 missed tackles in JGP’s performance. Actually I could hardly find a blatant one at all. If ESPN is counting his failure (with Ross) to stop Reidy’s try from a metre- I think that’s a bit harsh. The only other ‘missed tackle’ that was of note is the semi-bump by Marshall around 45 minutes. The latter was at close quarters and the Ulster man was felled instantly by another anyway. Can’t see another two MTs.

This is not about the eternal SH debate- it’s more in the utility of such stats. I’m sure it could be said that some of the favourable figures are flattering. Are ESPN and others measuring what matters, is the “granularity” (if that’s what they call it) at the correct level?


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[wixfjord]

Gotta say I'm hugely impressed by Dev's return to form too. He was very poor at the end of last season, but has really come into for again.
Guaranteed started for Ireland now.

[curates_egg]

Gotta say I'm hugely impressed by Dev's return to form too. He was very poor at the end of last season, but has really come into for again.
Guaranteed started for Ireland now.

He and Ruddock - two perpetual unsung heroes - are my players of the season so far.

[Laighin Break]

What!! That’s not my memory of his tackle count. But I’ll look at it again on the recording tonight and come back to you one way or the other on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

On ESPN and ultimate rugby.i can't think of many players who walk away from 4 turnovers, 4 missed tackles and 2 botched tries with a favourable review.

On those figures- watched it again this morning with those ESPN tackle stats in mind. I honestly can’t find 4 missed tackles in JGP’s performance. Actually I could hardly find a blatant one at all. If ESPN is counting his failure (with Ross) to stop Reidy’s try from a metre- I think that’s a bit harsh. The only other ‘missed tackle’ that was of note is the semi-bump by Marshall around 45 minutes. The latter was at close quarters and the Ulster man was felled instantly by another anyway. Can’t see another two MTs.

This is not about the eternal SH debate- it’s more in the utility of such stats. I’m sure it could be said that some of the favourable figures are flattering. Are ESPN and others measuring what matters, is the “granularity” (if that’s what they call it) at the correct level?

I wouldn't rely on those stats too heavily. Probably one or two people watching the match and clicking a player every time there's a tackle or missed tackle (among other stats). Easy enough to make a mistake / not be certain who made the tackle, and also depends on that person's view of what classifies a 'missed tackle'

[simonokeeffe]

Gotta say I'm hugely impressed by Dev's return to form too. He was very poor at the end of last season, but has really come into for again.
Guaranteed started for Ireland now.

He and Ruddock - two perpetual unsung heroes - are my players of the season so far.

hell yes to both

again though it's such a shame Ryan went off, if he had have stayed on for the game he would have had a big claim on Ireland no19

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Upon watching it again, I take back what I said about JGP's crossfield kick. We had no backline to speak of and no shape, the nearest player to JGP's right was Dev about 10m away and he was still running so not well placed to take a pass and Jack seemed to be the next guy outside him but he was miles away too, so the kick was actually a good option. Also think that Stockdale had him on the angle after the kick through so he was right to pass, although he offside in the first place.

Even more impressed with Adam, Larmour, and Stockdale on the rewatch. They all showed great feet and confidence under pressure and were able to get on the front foot when it looked impossible. Great to see Bowe playing well again too.

Ulster fans really do boo everything, although I think they may have had a point after Luke's first try, SOB's pass clearly forward IMO. The number of high tackles they got away with was ridiculous though, don't know what the officials were at.

[paddyor]

On ESPN and ultimate rugby.i can't think of many players who walk away from 4 turnovers, 4 missed tackles and 2 botched tries with a favourable review.

On those figures- watched it again this morning with those ESPN tackle stats in mind. I honestly can’t find 4 missed tackles in JGP’s performance. Actually I could hardly find a blatant one at all. If ESPN is counting his failure (with Ross) to stop Reidy’s try from a metre- I think that’s a bit harsh. The only other ‘missed tackle’ that was of note is the semi-bump by Marshall around 45 minutes. The latter was at close quarters and the Ulster man was felled instantly by another anyway. Can’t see another two MTs.

This is not about the eternal SH debate- it’s more in the utility of such stats. I’m sure it could be said that some of the favourable figures are flattering. Are ESPN and others measuring what matters, is the “granularity” (if that’s what they call it) at the correct level?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]
Are you for real? You find 2 missed tackles, dismiss them and then question the metohdology.

[artaneboy]

On ESPN and ultimate rugby.i can't think of many players who walk away from 4 turnovers, 4 missed tackles and 2 botched tries with a favourable review.

On those figures- watched it again this morning with those ESPN tackle stats in mind. I honestly can’t find 4 missed tackles in JGP’s performance. Actually I could hardly find a blatant one at all. If ESPN is counting his failure (with Ross) to stop Reidy’s try from a metre- I think that’s a bit harsh. The only other ‘missed tackle’ that was of note is the semi-bump by Marshall around 45 minutes. The latter was at close quarters and the Ulster man was felled instantly by another anyway. Can’t see another two MTs.

This is not about the eternal SH debate- it’s more in the utility of such stats. I’m sure it could be said that some of the favourable figures are flattering. Are ESPN and others measuring what matters, is the “granularity” (if that’s what they call it) at the correct level?


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Are you for real? You find 2 missed tackles, dismiss them and then question the metohdology.[/quote]

Yes- I'm for real in finding just half (2) of the total documented missed tackles- and in those I did note, not seeing them as being what I would regard as classical/ obvious missed tackles. There may be four missed tackles- but I neither noted that number at the time live- nor on re-watching the recording. So, yes- I do question the methodology on that basis- not just in the case of JGP, but more generally if this is how we partly judge players. Now maybe I missed the tackles- and I'm happy to accept that if it's pointed out to me where they are on the tape. Feel free if you wish. But in any case my OVERALL view remains that JGP played pretty well (some errors, of course) - and nothing on the tape changed that view- as of now.

So, while I certainly don't discount stats, I'm not a data/ 'money ball' zealot and I like to have claims based on those metric sources explained to me, where I have trouble observing it in the actual play. That is my focus here- the definitions of stat actions, not the eternal Luke/ Jamison debate.