Leinster's 2nd Row options

[mildlyinterested]

Leinster 2nd row options - ages as of end of the season (31st May 2018), stats as given on Leinster website:

Scott Fardy(33/6'6-111kg) - Signed 2 yr contract in 2017
Devin Toner(31/6'10-124kg) - Signed central 3yr contract in 2017
Ian Nagle(29/6'7-114kg) - Signed contract in 2017
Mick Kearney(27/6'5-115kg) - Signed contract in 2017
Ross Molony(24/6'6-111kg) - Signed contract in 2016
James Ryan(22/6'8-108kg) - Signed contract in 2017

Josh Murphy(23/6'5-105kg) - Academy Year 3
Oisin Dowling(21/6'5-105kg) - Academy Year 1

Scott Fardy has been an excellent signing for the province and Devin Toner has been playing to a much higher standard then he finished last season.
James Ryan is already clearly after skipping Nagle, Kearney and Molony in the pecking order. Have to assume he signed a deal longer than a year last season. Ian Nagle and Mick Kearney are decent players to have for depth, difficult to know their contract status, both likely have deals running into next season would be my guess.
Ross Molony is likely out of contract and it would be a surprise to see him go elsewhere, even he has been overtaken by Ryan as 3rd choice 2nd row.

In the academy Josh Murphy(UCD) has played some 2nd row this season, but hard to know how seriously he is being viewed at that position, difficult to project his future at Leinster at the moment as he finished his final season in the academy. Oisin Dowling(Lansdowne) is a recent addition to the academy, i'm sure he will be given more time to develop physically, even if he lacks the ideal height.

In the sub academy Jack Dunne(DUFC) is the best prospect at the position and should feature heavily for Ireland under-20 this season and in the AIL with Trinity. While Cormac Daly(Clontarf), Aaron Browne(Old Wesley) and Charlie Ryan(UCD) are other players to keep an eye on.

[leinsterforever]

What would Jack Dunne's height and weight stats be like?

[mildlyinterested]

What would Jack Dunne's height and weight stats be like?

Saw him listed at 6'7 108kg previously. Certainly that tall anyway.

[wwed]

Reckon Ryan Baird, St Micheals, currently under 19, has the potential to play at professional level also. Great prospect.

[mildlyinterested]

Reckon Ryan Baird, St Micheals, currently under 19, has the potential to play at professional level also. Great prospect.

Yeah he is the standout 2nd row playing schools rugby.

Other underage second rows to keep an eye on:

Charles Ryan (UCD/Blackrock) - u19, 6'7
Aaron Browne (Old Wesley/Roscrea) - u20, 6'6
Cormac Daly (Clontarf/North Kildare RFC) -u20, 6'5
JJ O'Dea(Old Wesley/Navan) - u20, 6'5

[ronk]

If you look at historical parallels, I'd say that Molony is Cullen and Ryan is O'Kelly (/Casey)

I find it instructive even if the ages are reversed.

[mildlyinterested]

Reckon Ryan Baird, St Micheals, currently under 19, has the potential to play at professional level also. Great prospect.

Baird is actually under-18 but has skipped playing 2 years at under-18 level and instead played u19 as a u18.

[mildlyinterested]

If you look at historical parallels, I'd say that Molony is Cullen and Ryan is O'Kelly (/Casey)

I find it instructive even if the ages are reversed.

I'd say Ryan is on another level talent wise to Casey, probably several levels tbh.

O'Kelly is a good comparison though, as is Molony with Cullen.

[Oldschool]

If you look at historical parallels, I'd say that Molony is Cullen and Ryan is O'Kelly (/Casey)

I find it instructive even if the ages are reversed.

Think Cullen was a good bit better than Molony.
Mick O'Driscoll was getting capped for Ireland when Cullen should have been getting those caps.
Molony doesn't yet look like he has that potential.
Mind you Billy Holland and Foley got caps too.
The pool is not that deep.

[Oldschool]

If you look at historical parallels, I'd say that Molony is Cullen and Ryan is O'Kelly (/Casey)

I find it instructive even if the ages are reversed.

I'd say Ryan is on another level talent wise to Casey, probably several levels tbh.

O'Kelly is a good comparison though, as is Molony with Cullen.

O'Kelley/Ryan definitely a good comparison.
I think Ryan, if he avoids injury, will be up there with the likes of Martin Johnson and will likely captain Ireland at some stage.
That concussion last week would be a serious worry.

[hugonaut]

If you look at historical parallels, I'd say that Molony is Cullen and Ryan is O'Kelly (/Casey)

I find it instructive even if the ages are reversed.

Think Cullen was a good bit better than Molony.
Mick O'Driscoll was getting capped for Ireland when Cullen should have been getting those caps.
Molony doesn't yet look like he has that potential.
Mind you Billy Holland and Foley got caps too.
The pool is not that deep.

RM is very similar in a lot of respects to Leo, notably in his temperament and leadership abilities.

But I agree with Oldschool: without wanting to talk down or denigrate Molony, I think it should be said for the record that Leo was a more talented player.

A lot of people are more familiar with Leo from his second stint at Leinster, but he was an underage superstar who played five consecutive seasons of age-grade international rugby in the backrow: back-to-back Irish Schools [as an U17 & U18], and then three consecutive years on the Irish U21s [U19,U20 and U21]. He played the vast majority of those games as a No8, some of them as a No6.

[mildlyinterested]

To be fair to Molony he played 3 years and didnt have an u21 age grade to play at. Given he was still in school he wasnt eligible to play multiple years at u20 age grade, same with Ryan.

But i agree Cullen was a better athlete, thats Molonys biggest weakness size/athleticism. Molony is still only a kid in 2nd row terms at 23 he will improve altho I doubt he will ever be a regular international. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[ronk]

If you look at historical parallels, I'd say that Molony is Cullen and Ryan is O'Kelly (/Casey)

I find it instructive even if the ages are reversed.

I'd say Ryan is on another level talent wise to Casey, probably several levels tbh.

O'Kelly is a good comparison though, as is Molony with Cullen.

Casey is the same age as Cullen. His international career was over 2 years before Cullen’s started. He was a rising star for Ireland until he wasn’t.

Casey was also a beast. The proper parallel with Ryan is probably O’Connell.

I’m a huge fan of Cullen as a player. He won games and trophies but didn’t win many man of the match awards or dominate many highlights reels.

EOS and Kidney didn’t know how to get the best out of him. Joe was too late (to Ireland) for him.

[leinsterforever]

If you look at historical parallels, I'd say that Molony is Cullen and Ryan is O'Kelly (/Casey)

I find it instructive even if the ages are reversed.

I'd say Ryan is on another level talent wise to Casey, probably several levels tbh.

O'Kelly is a good comparison though, as is Molony with Cullen.

Casey is the same age as Cullen. His international career was over 2 years before Cullen’s started. He was a rising star for Ireland until he wasn’t.

Casey was also a beast. The proper parallel with Ryan is probably O’Connell.

I’m a huge fan of Cullen as a player. He won games and trophies but didn’t win many man of the match awards or dominate many highlights reels.

EOS and Kidney didn’t know how to get the best out of him. Joe was too late (to Ireland) for him.

Yeah, Cullen did get a bit of a raw deal internationally. He made a great start to the 6N one year, playing very well in the first two games while O'Callaghan was injured, and then he was just dropped straight away when DOC was back for the third game. That time he was brought on with something like 10 seconds of normal time left against France wasn't a great look. And then there was the time he didn't make the squad for the tour of NZ in 2012 when he was Heineken Cup winning captain. I thought that was a bit strange

[ronk]

EOS & Kid we’re sometimes difficult coaches and there were lots of players who never fit into their systems. Cullen was especially unfortunate in that and the career arc of the players around him. Casey got it worse.

Posterity now records Cullen as a shining example of a player who is Hall of Fame in terms of club career but was never good enough for international standard.

He still forced his way in a fair few times and had a decent international career

[hugonaut]

Yeah, Cullen did get a bit of a raw deal internationally. He made a great start to the 6N one year, playing very well in the first two games while O'Callaghan was injured, and then he was just dropped straight away when DOC was back for the third game. That time he was brought on with something like 10 seconds of normal time left against France wasn't a great look. And then there was the time he didn't make the squad for the tour of NZ in 2012 when he was Heineken Cup winning captain. I thought that was a bit strange

I remember that year - it was 2010. Leo absolutely took apart the Italian and French lineouts: he stole 4 against the Italians [source: http://en.espn.co.uk/ireland/rugby/match/94943.html ] and 3 against the French [source: http://en.espn.co.uk/sixnations/rugby/match/94947.html ].

Seven lineouts stolen in two games in the Six Nations and you get dropped? And he had the highest tackle count on the Irish side in the Italian game!

[hugonaut]

These are really good threads, by the way. Enjoying the discussion.

It's intriguing to see the team selection for this evening's game with Scott Fardy on the blindside and Josh Murphy nominally selected as the second row substitute. I wonder if Murphy will come on in the row or if Fardy will switch into the row and Murphy play at No6?

[mildlyinterested]

These are really good threads, by the way. Enjoying the discussion.

It's intriguing to see the team selection for this evening's game with Scott Fardy on the blindside and Josh Murphy nominally selected as the second row substitute. I wonder if Murphy will come on in the row or if Fardy will switch into the row and Murphy play at No6?

Thanks, just trying to generate some new content.

I'd assume Fardy will move into 2nd row and Murphy will play his natural position of 6, to give him every chance at succeeding.

[sunshiner1]

Don't want to talk about Cullen's time with Ireland as it will make me angry. As for our second rows I gotta say that Mick Kearney has being for me a disappointment since he signed from Connacht. I know injury has affected him but I really hoped he'd have being pushing for a first team/bench position instead of being a squad player.

[mildlyinterested]

Don't want to talk about Cullen's time with Ireland as it will make me angry. As for our second rows I gotta say that Mick Kearney has being for me a disappointment since he signed from Connacht. I know injury has affected him but I really hoped he'd have being pushing for a first team/bench position instead of being a squad player.

He was always going to be a squad player, biggest disappointment is that when he has been called upon he hasn't been very good.