Leinster's 2nd Row options

[CiaranIrl]

where'd you see 6'4?

he has been listed at 6'5 since leaving school and it looks about right to me.

I may have misread that.. Or else I just can't see where I saw it.

[ronk]

both are very average sadly.. leinster should be aiming for higher quality options in those positions.

Those positions are 5th and 6th in the depth chart. They’re good players after a run of games.

What level should we be aiming for?

[mildlyinterested]

both are very average sadly.. leinster should be aiming for higher quality options in those positions.

Those positions are 5th and 6th in the depth chart. They’re good players after a run of games.

What level should we be aiming for?

better players.. hopefully the academy can provide that in a year or two.

with Fardy unlikely to be here after next season, Ryan/Toner being a core irish players going forward.. young quality 4th, 5th and 6th choice players will be needed. Kearney/Nagle leave a lot to be desired.

[artaneboy]

both are very average sadly.. leinster should be aiming for higher quality options in those positions.

Those positions are 5th and 6th in the depth chart. They’re good players after a run of games.

What level should we be aiming for?

better players.. hopefully the academy can provide that in a year or two.

with Fardy unlikely to be here after next season, Ryan/Toner being a core irish players going forward.. young quality 4th, 5th and 6th choice players will be needed. Kearney/Nagle leave a lot to be desired.

when is Fardy's contract up? Hate to lose him until we have another clear quality 2nd row in the squad.

Not dissing Mololey, Nagle or Kearney but they're not performing consistently at the level necessary yet. One- or more of them might make it yet, but we may need our Aussie for another season- if allowed...

[neiliog93]

Molony is going to be our MOD, a hard working, valuable squad player. Well able at Pro 14 and even Champions' Cup level but below international class. There's no shame in that. Nagle is painfully below the level required and Mick Kearney probably isn't good enough either, but he has another year to go and is young for a second row so we'll see. Essentially swapping him for Quinn Roux was a poor decision.

I'm not 100% convinced by Dowling either. But Daly and Dunne look good. Charlie Ryan hopefully will kick on too. All of those lads are 6'6" or 6'7". Then there's Baird in 6th year in Michael's (not sure how tall he is) and there's another monster of a kid in Mount Temple in 6th year, at least 6'7" and athletic. There's an African-Irish second row in 'Rock who's 6'11" but he didn't start for the SCT this year, but supposed to be a good athlete and might grow into his frame with time. I'd say long term we're looking pretty good for second rows.

[mildlyinterested]

Agree on Ross Molony.. He will be 3rd choice once Fardy leaves.

Mick Kearney is 27 now.. hardly young even for a second row.

Oisin Dowling(Lansdowne) is limited size wise like Kearney but appears to be a bit more athletic.. could settle at 6 who knows but would be similarly unconvinced about his long term future as a second row for leinster.

Cormac Daly(Clontarf), Jack Dunne(DUFC) and Charlie Ryan(UCD) all look like good prospects but the last two especially will take time to mature into their huge frames, with Dunne just missing out on being u20 eligible again next season while Ryan is eligible.

Ryan Baird(St. Michaels) is potentially special and doesn't look much shorter than Charlie Ryan who is listed at 6'7. He only turns 18 this year afaik. But should play leinster 20's a year young this summer. He was injured playing ireland 19's recently so hopefully that's not too serious.

Fionn Gilbert(Clontarf) from Mount Temple/Clontarf is an interesting prospect but doesnt appear to that highly rated with no ireland u18 appearances this season. Assume he will progress to Leinster 19's this summer.

Nathan Mullan(Blackrock) who joined Blackrock from Newbridge is the african/irish second row.. dont think he is 6'11 but certainly very tall.. dont think he is on the leinster radar at all though.. as you said he didnt play any SCT 1sts rugby while at Blackrock.

Cian Prendergast(Newbridge) captained Leinster Schools this season and also played for them last season.. and is playing for ireland schools at the moment. So certainly a player to keep an eye on.

Matthew Healy(St. Michaels) should be mentioned also as he had a very good season this year. Will probably make the leinster 20s team this summer.

Below that there are some big second rows after recently playing for leinster u17 schools; Max Mellett (Castleknock), Aaron Deegan (Terenure) and Conor Carson (Gonzaga)

so there are a plenty of prospects coming through its just choosing the right ones to join the academy and developing them appropriately.

[mildlyinterested]

when is Fardy's contract up? Hate to lose him until we have another clear quality 2nd row in the squad.

Not dissing Mololey, Nagle or Kearney but they're not performing consistently at the level necessary yet. One- or more of them might make it yet, but we may need our Aussie for another season- if allowed...

next season... beirne would have been a perfect replacement for him. if only.

[hugonaut]

Agree on Ross Molony.. He will be 3rd choice once Fardy leaves.

Mick Kearney is 27 now.. hardly young even for a second row.

Oisin Dowling(Lansdowne) is limited size wise like Kearney but appears to be a bit more athletic.. could settle at 6 who knows but would be similarly unconvinced about his long term future as a second row for leinster.

Cormac Daly(Clontarf), Jack Dunne(DUFC) and Charlie Ryan(UCD) all look like good prospects but the last two especially will take time to mature into their huge frames, with Dunne just missing out on being u20 eligible again next season while Ryan is eligible.

Ryan Baird(St. Michaels) is potentially special and doesn't look much shorter than Charlie Ryan who is listed at 6'7. He only turns 18 this year afaik. But should play leinster 20's a year young this summer. He was injured playing ireland 19's recently so hopefully that's not too serious.

Fionn Gilbert(Clontarf) from Mount Temple/Clontarf is an interesting prospect but doesnt appear to that highly rated with no ireland u18 appearances this season. Assume he will progress to Leinster 19's this summer.

Nathan Mullan(Blackrock) who joined Blackrock from Newbridge is the african/irish second row.. dont think he is 6'11 but certainly very tall.. dont think he is on the leinster radar at all though.. as you said he didnt play any SCT 1sts rugby while at Blackrock.

Cian Prendergast(Newbridge) captained Leinster Schools this season and also played for them last season.. and is playing for ireland schools at the moment. So certainly a player to keep an eye on.

Matthew Healy(St. Michaels) should be mentioned also as he had a very good season this year. Will probably make the leinster 20s team this summer.

Below that there are some big second rows after recently playing for leinster u17 schools; Max Mellett (Castleknock), Aaron Deegan (Terenure) and Conor Carson (Gonzaga)

so there are a plenty of prospects coming through its just choosing the right ones to join the academy and developing them appropriately.

Good summation Mildly.

Don't see it with Dowling . I looked at him quite closely in the recent B&I Cup QF and while he made a good run down the middle of the pitch in the second half, he was put through a gap; he didn't make it himself. Aside from that, there was nothing in his game that made him look like anything other than a second row [and not a big one] playing on the blindside.

We've already got Josh Murphy at No6, who has got the height and athleticism to give an excellent lineout option – thus taking away Dowling's point of difference as a blindside – and who is pretty obviously a better player than Dowling in a lot of regards: better tackler, more combative, better workrate etc.

Molony is hardnosed. James Ryan easily going through the gears beside him and passing him out will spur him to become even more hardnosed. He knows that he doesn't have anything like the talent that Ryan has [or even some of the guys in the sub-academy have] and that he's never going to be a big beast in the general second row community, but he definitely is tough and intelligent – a not-as-good-as version of Leo. He loses loads of contacts at the moment, but he's still only 23 and isn't a particular specimen for a pro lock. He'll get better in time and has put a great foundation in place - 60 caps already. He is going to be a long term Leinster player and a pretty regular Leinster captain.

Jack Dunne's similarities to Mal O'Kelly strike me very sharply - very tall, very athletic, very bright, a little bit goofy looking occasionally but a guy who clearly has the physical ability to play pro rugby. It's very difficult to know what his competitive mentality is like; he could just be one of these guys for whom rugby is easy at school because he's so big and athletic.

[mildlyinterested]

Agree on Ross Molony.. He will be 3rd choice once Fardy leaves.

Mick Kearney is 27 now.. hardly young even for a second row.

Oisin Dowling(Lansdowne) is limited size wise like Kearney but appears to be a bit more athletic.. could settle at 6 who knows but would be similarly unconvinced about his long term future as a second row for leinster.

Cormac Daly(Clontarf), Jack Dunne(DUFC) and Charlie Ryan(UCD) all look like good prospects but the last two especially will take time to mature into their huge frames, with Dunne just missing out on being u20 eligible again next season while Ryan is eligible.

Ryan Baird(St. Michaels) is potentially special and doesn't look much shorter than Charlie Ryan who is listed at 6'7. He only turns 18 this year afaik. But should play leinster 20's a year young this summer. He was injured playing ireland 19's recently so hopefully that's not too serious.

Fionn Gilbert(Clontarf) from Mount Temple/Clontarf is an interesting prospect but doesnt appear to that highly rated with no ireland u18 appearances this season. Assume he will progress to Leinster 19's this summer.

Nathan Mullan(Blackrock) who joined Blackrock from Newbridge is the african/irish second row.. dont think he is 6'11 but certainly very tall.. dont think he is on the leinster radar at all though.. as you said he didnt play any SCT 1sts rugby while at Blackrock.

Cian Prendergast(Newbridge) captained Leinster Schools this season and also played for them last season.. and is playing for ireland schools at the moment. So certainly a player to keep an eye on.

Matthew Healy(St. Michaels) should be mentioned also as he had a very good season this year. Will probably make the leinster 20s team this summer.

Below that there are some big second rows after recently playing for leinster u17 schools; Max Mellett (Castleknock), Aaron Deegan (Terenure) and Conor Carson (Gonzaga)

so there are a plenty of prospects coming through its just choosing the right ones to join the academy and developing them appropriately.

Good summation Mildly.

Don't see it with Dowling . I looked at him quite closely in the recent B&I Cup QF and while he made a good run down the middle of the pitch in the second half, he was put through a gap; he didn't make it himself. Aside from that, there was nothing in his game that made him look like anything other than a second row [and not a big one] playing on the blindside.

We've already got Josh Murphy at No6, who has got the height and athleticism to give an excellent lineout option – thus taking away Dowling's point of difference as a blindside – and who is pretty obviously a better player than Dowling in a lot of regards: better tackler, more combative, better workrate etc.

Molony is hardnosed. James Ryan easily going through the gears beside him and passing him out will spur him to become even more hardnosed. He knows that he doesn't have anything like the talent that Ryan has [or even some of the guys in the sub-academy have] and that he's never going to be a big beast in the general second row community, but he definitely is tough and intelligent – a not-as-good-as version of Leo. He loses loads of contacts at the moment, but he's still only 23 and isn't a particular specimen for a pro lock. He'll get better in time and has put a great foundation in place - 60 caps already. He is going to be a long term Leinster player and a pretty regular Leinster captain.

Jack Dunne's similarities to Mal O'Kelly strike me very sharply - very tall, very athletic, very bright, a little bit goofy looking occasionally but a guy who clearly has the physical ability to play pro rugby. It's very difficult to know what his competitive mentality is like; he could just be one of these guys for whom rugby is easy at school because he's so big and athletic.

Agree with pretty much all of that, Dowling will get another season in the academy IMO.

it's remarkable that one medium sized dublin south private school has had the following large pro athletes through their doors this decade:

Ross Molony(1994/6'6)
Josh Murphy(1995/6'5)
James Ryan(1996/6'8)
Oisin Dowling(1997/6'5)
Jack Dunne(1998/6'7)
Matthew Healy(1999/6'5)
Ryan Baird(2000/6'6)

[curates_egg]

That Dublin South private school has become quite a production line in general.
But has it not been actively recruiting rugby players and offering scholarships? That was my understanding. If so, it is not that remarkable.
I have no knowledge, so it is a genuine question, but how many of their SCTs in an average year would have been recruited to the school after first year?
Regardless, it seems to be serving Leinster and Ireland rugby well.

[mildlyinterested]

That Dublin South private school has become quite a production line in general.
But has it not been actively recruiting rugby players and offering scholarships? That was my understanding. If so, it is not that remarkable.
I have no knowledge, so it is a genuine question, but how many of their SCTs in an average year would have been recruited to the school after first year?
Regardless, it seems to be serving Leinster and Ireland rugby well.

No scholarships or active recruiting of talented rugby players as far as i'm aware.

[curates_egg]

That Dublin South private school has become quite a production line in general.
But has it not been actively recruiting rugby players and offering scholarships? That was my understanding. If so, it is not that remarkable.
I have no knowledge, so it is a genuine question, but how many of their SCTs in an average year would have been recruited to the school after first year?
Regardless, it seems to be serving Leinster and Ireland rugby well.

No scholarships or active recruiting as far as i'm aware.

Then it is truly impressive.
And someone fed me a pile of manure.

[mildlyinterested]

That Dublin South private school has become quite a production line in general.
But has it not been actively recruiting rugby players and offering scholarships? That was my understanding. If so, it is not that remarkable.
I have no knowledge, so it is a genuine question, but how many of their SCTs in an average year would have been recruited to the school after first year?
Regardless, it seems to be serving Leinster and Ireland rugby well.

No scholarships or active recruiting as far as i'm aware.

Then it is truly impressive.
And someone fed me a pile of manure.

I could be wrong now, but Michaels wouldn't have a load of imports playing SCT for them.. vast majority come through junior school or move to senior school in 1st year.

Blackrock are still the school for recruiting players, at least two of their starting 15 from this years SCT were recruited. (Mescal, Brennan)

[the spoofer]

Roscrea are at it again.

[mildlyinterested]

Roscrea are at it again.

hardly surprising after they threatened to go to court earlier this season.

[neiliog93]

The scholarship thing is wildly overblown. The only school who actively do that any more are Roscrea. Terenure have also done it a lot more than either Michael's or Rock. I know after the Harris-Wright controversy 10+ years ago, Blackrock have stopped it completely. The likes of Carbery who moved for 6th year would have had to pay fees like everyone else (and the number of club players who move in 5th or 6th is low, either none or maybe one in a typical year).

[Peg Leg]

The scholarship thing is wildly overblown. The only school who actively do that any more are Roscrea. Terenure have also done it a lot more than either Michael's or Rock. I know after the Harris-Wright controversy 10+ years ago, Blackrock have stopped it completely. The likes of Carbery who moved for 6th year would have had to pay fees like everyone else (and the number of club players who move in 5th or 6th is low, either none or maybe one in a typical year).

As Mildly says, Mescal is a definite Rock Recruit. He and his older brother attended maynooth PP and they both played with North Kildare although his brothers interest was mainly Kildare football.

[mildlyinterested]

The scholarship thing is wildly overblown. The only school who actively do that any more are Roscrea. Terenure have also done it a lot more than either Michael's or Rock. I know after the Harris-Wright controversy 10+ years ago, Blackrock have stopped it completely. The likes of Carbery who moved for 6th year would have had to pay fees like everyone else (and the number of club players who move in 5th or 6th is low, either none or maybe one in a typical year).

As Mildly says, Mescal is a definite Rock Recruit. He and his older brother attended maynooth PP and they both played with North Kildare although his brothers interest was mainly Kildare football.

Ed Brennan is too, was playing with CUS until 2nd year.

[mildlyinterested]

[mildlyinterested]