Leinster's 2nd Row options

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Re: Leinster's 2nd Row options

Postby Oldschool » January 31st, 2019, 4:51 pm

Lar wrote:What the basic NIQ rules ignore is the value that a pro like Fardy can bring not just to the squad in terms of his playing ability but also his attitude to training and to playing. Fardy has been an unqualified success for us and has been a model pro. For players - not just young locks in his position - to see his application in training and in the 'less important' games is exemplary and invaluable.

Not all NIQ players bring that. We have one here at the moment and even if he leaves and we are allowed to bring in another NIQ in another position there is no guarantee the new player will show the same attitude as Fardy has.

His leadership is excellent and our younger (even some older) players can learn a lot from him.
It's a different perspective that he brings.
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Re: Leinster's 2nd Row options

Postby mildlyinterested » January 31st, 2019, 4:57 pm

Oldschool wrote:
Lar wrote:What the basic NIQ rules ignore is the value that a pro like Fardy can bring not just to the squad in terms of his playing ability but also his attitude to training and to playing. Fardy has been an unqualified success for us and has been a model pro. For players - not just young locks in his position - to see his application in training and in the 'less important' games is exemplary and invaluable.

Not all NIQ players bring that. We have one here at the moment and even if he leaves and we are allowed to bring in another NIQ in another position there is no guarantee the new player will show the same attitude as Fardy has.

His leadership is excellent and our younger (even some older) players can learn a lot from him.
It's a different perspective that he brings.


IRFU dont care.
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Re: Leinster's 2nd Row options

Postby Oldschool » January 31st, 2019, 5:06 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:
Oldschool wrote:
Lar wrote:What the basic NIQ rules ignore is the value that a pro like Fardy can bring not just to the squad in terms of his playing ability but also his attitude to training and to playing. Fardy has been an unqualified success for us and has been a model pro. For players - not just young locks in his position - to see his application in training and in the 'less important' games is exemplary and invaluable.

Not all NIQ players bring that. We have one here at the moment and even if he leaves and we are allowed to bring in another NIQ in another position there is no guarantee the new player will show the same attitude as Fardy has.

His leadership is excellent and our younger (even some older) players can learn a lot from him.
It's a different perspective that he brings.


IRFU dont care.

Well they need to wake up then.
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Re: Leinster's 2nd Row options

Postby Lar » January 31st, 2019, 6:53 pm

Oldschool wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:IRFU dont care.

Well they need to wake up then.


I don't think they are asleep, its more that they don't care as MI says. I think they should care, but on the evidence they don't.
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Re: Leinster's 2nd Row options

Postby Peg Leg » January 31st, 2019, 10:54 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:
Oldschool wrote:
Lar wrote:What the basic NIQ rules ignore is the value that a pro like Fardy can bring not just to the squad in terms of his playing ability but also his attitude to training and to playing. Fardy has been an unqualified success for us and has been a model pro. For players - not just young locks in his position - to see his application in training and in the 'less important' games is exemplary and invaluable.

Not all NIQ players bring that. We have one here at the moment and even if he leaves and we are allowed to bring in another NIQ in another position there is no guarantee the new player will show the same attitude as Fardy has.

His leadership is excellent and our younger (even some older) players can learn a lot from him.
It's a different perspective that he brings.


IRFU dont care.
Or you know, they've learned enough from him in 2 years
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Re: Leinster's 2nd Row options

Postby mildlyinterested » January 31st, 2019, 11:07 pm

Peg Leg wrote:Or you know, they've learned enough from him in 2 years


plenty of young players could learn more from him in the next two years.

especially the young locks who are only getting exposed to him recently.

but that doesn't matter to the IRFU.
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Re: Leinster's 2nd Row options

Postby Peg Leg » January 31st, 2019, 11:23 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:
Peg Leg wrote:Or you know, they've learned enough from him in 2 years


plenty of young players could learn more from him in the next two years.

especially the young locks who are only getting exposed to him recently.

but that doesn't matter to the IRFU.
Ah no, I'm pretty sure the IRFU want to get everything they can from him. I'm also pretty sure they set the boundaries at the stage of contract, likely to include the requirement to bring through academy or IQ players in a similar position. Is it shit, yeah, do leinster have alternative options, yeah, did they do enough to nurture talent while he was here, absolutely.
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Re: Leinster's 2nd Row options

Postby mildlyinterested » January 31st, 2019, 11:27 pm

Leinster have brought through academy players despite him being here. It's poor excuse and only does further damage to leinster rugby.
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Re: Leinster's 2nd Row options

Postby Jonny tight lips » February 1st, 2019, 12:51 am

How sure are we that he’s not being resigned, thee was an article earlier this month implying the opposite. I know Ulster have signed a second row but we are suppplying two second rows and Moloney is getting plenty of minutes. Munster have 6 players not qualified to play for Ireland so exceptions can be made if resigning Fardy will break any rules. Towards the tail end of last year we spent most of the time worrying about who is leaving instead of how the team might be improved and now it’s the same bullshit.
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Re: Leinster's 2nd Row options

Postby ronk » February 1st, 2019, 6:47 am

Jonny tight lips wrote:
johng wrote:Not sure I follow your logic on how that affects Fardy?


The IRFU willwant to limit the number of NIE players in any poisition so for one coming in up north will require one to leave somewhere else. Piener made way for JGP a couple of years back. Although with Kleyn becoming IQ this year I guess that gives us a sliver of hope.


Ulster made all their signings and then tried to extend Pienaar because they thought IRFU wouldn't say no. If they had done it the other way they would have had a better chance. I don't see how JGP was a factor.

The lock pool is wide and deep for next year. Klein, Beirne; Roux, Dillane; Henderson, Treadwell/O'Connor; Ryan, Toner, (Molony is improving). There's also recalling D Ryan in a break glass situation.
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Re: Leinster's 2nd Row options

Postby hugonaut » February 4th, 2019, 9:52 pm

ronk wrote:
Jonny tight lips wrote:
johng wrote:Not sure I follow your logic on how that affects Fardy?


The IRFU willwant to limit the number of NIE players in any poisition so for one coming in up north will require one to leave somewhere else. Piener made way for JGP a couple of years back. Although with Kleyn becoming IQ this year I guess that gives us a sliver of hope.


Ulster made all their signings and then tried to extend Pienaar because they thought IRFU wouldn't say no. If they had done it the other way they would have had a better chance. I don't see how JGP was a factor.


JGP wasn't a factor at all with regards to Pienaar, as far as I'm aware.

Pienaar would have been on his fourth consecutive IRFU contract [he played for seven seasons in Ulster, longer than he played for the Sharks in South Africa] and basically Nucifora put his foot down. I assume the way he saw it was the way that a lot of people outside Ulster saw it, that the province weren't going to do anything for Irish rugby at scrum-half while they could pick Pienaar. They did nothing to produce a scrum-half over that seven year period that Pienaar was in the province. Paul Marshall was second choice when Pienaar arrived for 2010-11 and second choice when he left at the end of 2016-17.

Obviously there was a personal cost to Pienaar, who wanted to stay up north, and it made the situation a lot more complicated. But by the end of his first season, John Cooney's performances vindicated Nucifora's decision. Cooney scored more points [226] and as many tries [5] in his first season with Ulster than Pienaar did in his best season [202 pts, 5 tries in 2012-13].
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Re: Leinster's 2nd Row options

Postby Oldschool » February 4th, 2019, 10:54 pm

The likelihood of Dev pulling a sick note highlights the need to sign Fardy for another season.
God only knows what state some of our players will be in post RWC.
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Re: Leinster's 2nd Row options

Postby mildlyinterested » February 5th, 2019, 11:17 am

Oldschool wrote:The likelihood of Dev pulling a sick note highlights the need to sign Fardy for another season.
God only knows what state some of our players will be in post RWC.


the IRFU clearly don't care, leinster's success is very much a non-priority.
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Re: Leinster's 2nd Row options

Postby johng » February 5th, 2019, 12:41 pm

In a world cup year? Of course it is.
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Re: Leinster's 2nd Row options

Postby mildlyinterested » February 6th, 2019, 9:35 am

rumour that JR is playing with an injury also. :x
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Re: Leinster's 2nd Row options

Postby Oldschool » February 6th, 2019, 11:03 am

mildlyinterested wrote:rumour that JR is playing with an injury also. :x

Lovely.
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Re: Leinster's 2nd Row options

Postby bails » February 6th, 2019, 2:48 pm

The fact that Leinster Rugby may have difficulty in offering Scott Fardy another contract is a nonsense.

1. We currently provide the Irish first choice 2nd row.
2. We consistently give more opportunities to other Irish qualified players in our First Team, than any of the other Provinces do. In the case of the second row think Ross Molony, Mick Kearney, Oisin Dowling and lately Jack Dunne.
3. The Irish qualified players figures approved by IRFU, don't stack up at all.

If we use the number of players not qualified to play for Ireland in the Provincial squads, rather than splitting into NIQ and Project player
Leinster 4 players
Munster 7 players (also have 2 NIQ players in academy )
Ulster 5 Players
Connacht 7 players

Remember all Provinces play in the same league, attempting to qualify for the same European Cup competition, so presumably should be treated on an even basis.

If Leinster aren't in a position to offer Scott Fardy a well deserved contract renewal, at the behest if the IRFU, it can only be because they apply different rules for different Provinces.
Or in layman's terms, certain other Provinces are gaining advantage because they couldn't be bothered or are not capable of developing younger players.

Makes me ask the rhetorical question : Why do we bother developing Irish players when we could us the money to but more overseas players, and fill the academy with NIQ's .

Lets have some fair play IRFU now !
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Re: Leinster's 2nd Row options

Postby leinsterforever » February 6th, 2019, 11:31 pm

I can only think of Coetzee and Herbst up in Ulster. Who are the other three? Speight, van der Merve and Deysel have all left.

Munster have 6? - Marshall, Kleyn, Cloete, Botha, Mathewson and Taute (plus Knox and More)

Connacht have Butler, Fainga'a, Horwitz and Godwin. Who am I missing?
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Re: Leinster's 2nd Row options

Postby Oldschool » February 6th, 2019, 11:39 pm

leinsterforever wrote:I can only think of Coetzee and Herbst up in Ulster. Who are the other three? Speight, van der Merve and Deysel have all left.

Munster have 6? - Marshall, Kleyn, Cloete, Botha, Mathewson and Taute (plus Knox and More)

Connacht have Butler, Fainga'a, Horwitz and Godwin. Who am I missing?

Can Butler become Irish qualified and if so, when?
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Re: Leinster's 2nd Row options

Postby neill_m » February 6th, 2019, 11:44 pm

leinsterforever wrote:I can only think of Coetzee and Herbst up in Ulster. Who are the other three? Speight, van der Merve and Deysel have all left.

Munster have 6? - Marshall, Kleyn, Cloete, Botha, Mathewson and Taute (plus Knox and More)

Connacht have Butler, Fainga'a, Horwitz and Godwin. Who am I missing?



Ulster currently have 1 - Coetzee. Herbst is IQ’d.
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