Leinster Front Row Options going forward

[matt]

to those people saying to win a european cup we need a better hooker, I guess you figure we don't have a chance this year then?

To win a European cup we need three things.
A good pack, which we have.
A modicum of luck, so far so good.
Most of our first choice backs available.
The availability of our backs will determine our 'seeding' in the playoffs and thus in all probility how far we go.

A lot of truth in both statements but while luck etc is always needed to have a chance of winning trophies I think we will be very competitive this year, hopefully qualify from pool & get home qf but ultimately I don't believe we are strong enough to win European Cup.

1) Have no worries about both first choice and depth at nos 1, 17, 6,7,8, 20
2) We are very strong at 3,18, 10,12, 13 but if got injuries it could be an issue
3) 11 & 15 are looking promising but still a lot to prove
4) Backup 16, 21, 22, 23 have options and reasonably happy with

So that's 17 positions we are reasonably strong in injury permitting and leaves 2, 4, 5,19, 9, 14 as particular areas to work on.

Have some confidence in Toner/Fardy/Ryan/Molony to cover 4, 5, 19 but realise it might be tough say against Kruis,Itoje & Skelton. Think Luke at 9 is a leader and strong in most areas with the capacity to cut out mistakes, Enough choice at 14 with BD/ROL/AB/FMcF/DK/JL etc to believe we will do ok here.

Brings us back to no 2. Happy with options at 16 especially as SC's pace means he has most impact as a finisher and JT is strong in most areas except lineout but think a standout no 2 would radically improve our prospects in line out & elsewhere.

[mildlyinterested]

to those people saying to win a european cup we need a better hooker, I guess you figure we don't have a chance this year then?

To win a European cup we need three things.
A good pack, which we have.
A modicum of luck, so far so good.
Most of our first choice backs available.
The availability of our backs will determine our 'seeding' in the playoffs and thus in all probility how far we go.

A lot of truth in both statements but while luck etc is always needed to have a chance of winning trophies I think we will be very competitive this year, hopefully qualify from pool & get home qf but ultimately I don't believe we are strong enough to win European Cup.

1) Have no worries about both first choice and depth at nos 1, 17, 6,7,8, 20
2) We are very strong at 3,18, 10,12, 13 but if got injuries it could be an issue
3) 11 & 15 are looking promising but still a lot to prove
4) Backup 16, 21, 22, 23 have options and reasonably happy with

So that's 17 positions we are reasonably strong in injury permitting and leaves 2, 4, 5,19, 9, 14 as particular areas to work on.

Have some confidence in Toner/Fardy/Ryan/Molony to cover 4, 5, 19 but realise it might be tough say against Kruis,Itoje & Skelton. Think Luke at 9 is a leader and strong in most areas with the capacity to cut out mistakes, Enough choice at 14 with BD/ROL/AB/FMcF/DK/JL etc to believe we will do ok here.

Brings us back to no 2. Happy with options at 16 especially as SC's pace means he has most impact as a finisher and JT is strong in most areas except lineout but think a standout no 2 would radically improve our prospects in line out & elsewhere.

well we aren't signing a NIQ hooker anytime soon so.

[CiaranIrl]

We've won a European cup with Harris Wright at 16. I think this year's crop can top that.

[neiliog93]

You need both of your set-pieces to be sound to win a European Cup. Our line-out is not sound at the moment, and it's mainly the hookers' fault.

[mildlyinterested]

You need both of your set-pieces to be sound to win a European Cup. Our line-out is not sound at the moment, and it's mainly the hookers' fault.

hard to say it's mainly hookers fault IMO.

[neiliog93]

Is it though? Dev Toner and other members of our back row have been part of a better line-out with Ireland (with the same props doing the lifting). There are regular crooked throws, and regular overthrows, which visibly were not the result of a mistimed lift. Obviously a certain percentage of missed line-outs are others' fault, mistimed lift, poor jump etc, but it seems to be 80%+ the hookers' fault at the moment.

[mildlyinterested]

Cronins non ireland selection is interesting.

[hugonaut]

Cronins non ireland selection is interesting.

Very surprising. Joe has a little bit of form with dropping Cro - when he picked the squad to tour the US and Canada in June 2013 [the first squad he picked] he left him out. It was only when Hartley got banned and Best got called up for the Lions that Cro was promoted from the Emerging Ireland squad.

[carlow man]

Cronins contract is up at end of season and maybe he is talking to others clubs so perhaps schmidt has left him out if he thinks he won't be available for Ireland after this year? If not, then picking Tracey over cronin is madness as he's nowhere near the level required for international rugby. He would get eaten alive in the 6 nations. Decent pro 14 player but if cronin is off then we need to sign a new hooker asap. Byrnes injury record doesn't tell us he can be relied on in the long term.

[Fan with smartphone]

Cronins non ireland selection is interesting.

Very surprising. Joe has a little bit of form with dropping Cro - when he picked the squad to tour the US and Canada in June 2013 [the first squad he picked] he left him out. It was only when Hartley got banned and Best got called up for the Lions that Cro was promoted from the Emerging Ireland squad.

Was it Kiss credited as in charge of that squad? Hard to imagine joe didn’t have some input anyway I suppose. I’m surprised by it too, but it’s maybe to do with covering the age profile. If they put all the eggs in the Best-Cronin basket and one or both struggle with age, form, fitness then we are caught short. It could be to do with contract situation too. I can’t see how you could leave Cronin out on ability to be honest.

[mildlyinterested]

Cronins contract is up at end of season and maybe he is talking to others clubs so perhaps schmidt has left him out if he thinks he won't be available for Ireland after this year? If not, then picking Tracey over cronin is madness as he's nowhere near the level required for international rugby. He would get eaten alive in the 6 nations. Decent pro 14 player but if cronin is off then we need to sign a new hooker asap. Byrnes injury record doesn't tell us he can be relied on in the long term.

Bryan Byrne has a great injury record, his ability to throw...

[riocard911]

I was wondering bout that too. My idea, which of course could be totally off base, is, that many of the call ups are part of a sifting process with a view to who to work with for RWC '19. Cronin has nothing to prove to Joe. He's been the best Irish hooker this season thus far, IMO. He's number two to a fit Rory Best and Joe wants to have a closer look at what's next after that i.e. Herring and Tracy.

[mildlyinterested]

I was wondering bout that too. My idea, which of course could be totally off base, is, that many of the call ups are part of a sifting process with a view to who to work with for RWC '19. Cronin has nothing to prove to Joe. He's been the best Irish hooker this season thus far, IMO. He's number two to a fit Rory Best and Joe wants to have a closer look at what's next after that i.e. Herring and Tracy.

Would be the only position he is really doing that...

Maybe Cronin isn't in as good a form as some think?

[carlow man]

Can't see how herring orTracey are going to inject any tempo or pace after replacing best who will prob give it all for 60 mins then get hooked. Cronin is the only hooker we have who can offer that and not sure why schmidt has overlooked him.

[joooooe]

I suspect Sean Cronin's absence from the Ireland squad is for similar reasons to Simon Zebo's. The only reason Zebo's move was announced so early was so as to pre-empt his being omitted from the Ireland squad. Clearly, Joe Schmidt said to Zebo that he would drop him if he signed for Racing Metro/PSG. He signed anyway and then made sure it was out before the Ireland squad was announced.

I suspect something similar is happening with Cronin and would not be surprised if we hear in January that he has agreed to sign for a wealthy club. In fact, I suspect the deal has already been done.

[mildlyinterested]

I suspect Sean Cronin's absence from the Ireland squad is for similar reasons to Simon Zebo's. The only reason Zebo's move was announced so early was so as to pre-empt his being omitted from the Ireland squad. Clearly, Joe Schmidt said to Zebo that he would drop him if he signed for Racing Metro/PSG. He signed anyway and then made sure it was out before the Ireland squad was announced.

I suspect something similar is happening with Cronin and would not be surprised if we hear in January that he has agreed to sign for a wealthy club. In fact, I suspect the deal has already been done.

and this is all based on?

[joooooe]

I suspect Sean Cronin's absence from the Ireland squad is for similar reasons to Simon Zebo's. The only reason Zebo's move was announced so early was so as to pre-empt his being omitted from the Ireland squad. Clearly, Joe Schmidt said to Zebo that he would drop him if he signed for Racing Metro/PSG. He signed anyway and then made sure it was out before the Ireland squad was announced.

I suspect something similar is happening with Cronin and would not be surprised if we hear in January that he has agreed to sign for a wealthy club. In fact, I suspect the deal has already been done.

and this is all based on?

I suspect...

I suspect... and would not be surprised

...I suspect

I thought I qualified myself pretty well. Any views expressed are purely the product of my over-active and under-stimulated imagination!

[mildlyinterested]

If Cronin did leave, we'd be in quite the pickle..

[Peg Leg]

If Cronin did leave, we'd be in quite the pickle..

And this is based on...

[paddyor]

I suspect Sean Cronin's absence from the Ireland squad is for similar reasons to Simon Zebo's. The only reason Zebo's move was announced so early was so as to pre-empt his being omitted from the Ireland squad. Clearly, Joe Schmidt said to Zebo that he would drop him if he signed for Racing Metro/PSG. He signed anyway and then made sure it was out before the Ireland squad was announced.

I suspect something similar is happening with Cronin and would not be surprised if we hear in January that he has agreed to sign for a wealthy club. In fact, I suspect the deal has already been done.

and this is all based on?

I suspect...

I suspect... and would not be surprised

...I suspect

I thought I qualified myself pretty well. Any views expressed are purely the product of my over-active and under-stimulated imagination!

You don't think there's maybe one too many qualifiers in there?