Leinster Front Row Options going forward

A forum for true blue Leinster supporters to talk about and support their team

Moderator: moderators

Re: Leinster Front Row Options going forward

Postby matt » October 26th, 2017, 12:12 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:to those people saying to win a european cup we need a better hooker, I guess you figure we don't have a chance this year then?


Oldschool wrote:To win a European cup we need three things.
A good pack, which we have.
A modicum of luck, so far so good.
Most of our first choice backs available.
The availability of our backs will determine our 'seeding' in the playoffs and thus in all probility how far we go.


A lot of truth in both statements but while luck etc is always needed to have a chance of winning trophies I think we will be very competitive this year, hopefully qualify from pool & get home qf but ultimately I don't believe we are strong enough to win European Cup.

1) Have no worries about both first choice and depth at nos 1, 17, 6,7,8, 20
2) We are very strong at 3,18, 10,12, 13 but if got injuries it could be an issue
3) 11 & 15 are looking promising but still a lot to prove
4) Backup 16, 21, 22, 23 have options and reasonably happy with

So that's 17 positions we are reasonably strong in injury permitting and leaves 2, 4, 5,19, 9, 14 as particular areas to work on.

Have some confidence in Toner/Fardy/Ryan/Molony to cover 4, 5, 19 but realise it might be tough say against Kruis,Itoje & Skelton. Think Luke at 9 is a leader and strong in most areas with the capacity to cut out mistakes, Enough choice at 14 with BD/ROL/AB/FMcF/DK/JL etc to believe we will do ok here.

Brings us back to no 2. Happy with options at 16 especially as SC's pace means he has most impact as a finisher and JT is strong in most areas except lineout but think a standout no 2 would radically improve our prospects in line out & elsewhere.
matt
Knowledgeable
 
Posts: 461
Joined: September 29th, 2008, 1:40 pm

Re: Leinster Front Row Options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » October 26th, 2017, 12:29 pm

matt wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:to those people saying to win a european cup we need a better hooker, I guess you figure we don't have a chance this year then?


Oldschool wrote:To win a European cup we need three things.
A good pack, which we have.
A modicum of luck, so far so good.
Most of our first choice backs available.
The availability of our backs will determine our 'seeding' in the playoffs and thus in all probility how far we go.


A lot of truth in both statements but while luck etc is always needed to have a chance of winning trophies I think we will be very competitive this year, hopefully qualify from pool & get home qf but ultimately I don't believe we are strong enough to win European Cup.

1) Have no worries about both first choice and depth at nos 1, 17, 6,7,8, 20
2) We are very strong at 3,18, 10,12, 13 but if got injuries it could be an issue
3) 11 & 15 are looking promising but still a lot to prove
4) Backup 16, 21, 22, 23 have options and reasonably happy with

So that's 17 positions we are reasonably strong in injury permitting and leaves 2, 4, 5,19, 9, 14 as particular areas to work on.

Have some confidence in Toner/Fardy/Ryan/Molony to cover 4, 5, 19 but realise it might be tough say against Kruis,Itoje & Skelton. Think Luke at 9 is a leader and strong in most areas with the capacity to cut out mistakes, Enough choice at 14 with BD/ROL/AB/FMcF/DK/JL etc to believe we will do ok here.

Brings us back to no 2. Happy with options at 16 especially as SC's pace means he has most impact as a finisher and JT is strong in most areas except lineout but think a standout no 2 would radically improve our prospects in line out & elsewhere.


well we aren't signing a NIQ hooker anytime soon so.
mildlyinterested
Cian Healy
 
Posts: 2022
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Leinster Front Row Options going forward

Postby CiaranIrl » October 26th, 2017, 1:54 pm

We've won a European cup with Harris Wright at 16. I think this year's crop can top that.
“As you all know first prize is a Cadillac El Dorado. Anyone wanna see second prize? Second prize is a set of steak knives. Third prize is you're fired.”
User avatar
CiaranIrl
Malcolm O'Kelly
 
Posts: 3166
Joined: April 27th, 2009, 11:23 am
Location: Dun Laoghaire

Re: Leinster Front Row Options going forward

Postby neiliog93 » October 26th, 2017, 1:57 pm

You need both of your set-pieces to be sound to win a European Cup. Our line-out is not sound at the moment, and it's mainly the hookers' fault.
"This is breathless stuff.....it's on again. Contepomi out to Hickie,D'Arcy,Hickie.......................HICKIE FOR THE CORNER! THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User avatar
neiliog93
Malcolm O'Kelly
 
Posts: 3553
Joined: April 12th, 2008, 11:42 am

Re: Leinster Front Row Options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » October 26th, 2017, 2:40 pm

neiliog93 wrote:You need both of your set-pieces to be sound to win a European Cup. Our line-out is not sound at the moment, and it's mainly the hookers' fault.


hard to say it's mainly hookers fault IMO.
mildlyinterested
Cian Healy
 
Posts: 2022
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Leinster Front Row Options going forward

Postby neiliog93 » October 26th, 2017, 2:44 pm

Is it though? Dev Toner and other members of our back row have been part of a better line-out with Ireland (with the same props doing the lifting). There are regular crooked throws, and regular overthrows, which visibly were not the result of a mistimed lift. Obviously a certain percentage of missed line-outs are others' fault, mistimed lift, poor jump etc, but it seems to be 80%+ the hookers' fault at the moment.
"This is breathless stuff.....it's on again. Contepomi out to Hickie,D'Arcy,Hickie.......................HICKIE FOR THE CORNER! THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User avatar
neiliog93
Malcolm O'Kelly
 
Posts: 3553
Joined: April 12th, 2008, 11:42 am

Re: Leinster Front Row Options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » October 26th, 2017, 9:43 pm

Cronins non ireland selection is interesting.
mildlyinterested
Cian Healy
 
Posts: 2022
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Leinster Front Row Options going forward

Postby hugonaut » October 26th, 2017, 10:01 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:Cronins non ireland selection is interesting.


Very surprising. Joe has a little bit of form with dropping Cro - when he picked the squad to tour the US and Canada in June 2013 [the first squad he picked] he left him out. It was only when Hartley got banned and Best got called up for the Lions that Cro was promoted from the Emerging Ireland squad.
User avatar
hugonaut
Brian O'Driscoll
 
Posts: 4665
Joined: May 5th, 2009, 7:44 pm

Re: Leinster Front Row Options going forward

Postby carlow man » October 26th, 2017, 10:21 pm

Cronins contract is up at end of season and maybe he is talking to others clubs so perhaps schmidt has left him out if he thinks he won't be available for Ireland after this year? If not, then picking Tracey over cronin is madness as he's nowhere near the level required for international rugby. He would get eaten alive in the 6 nations. Decent pro 14 player but if cronin is off then we need to sign a new hooker asap. Byrnes injury record doesn't tell us he can be relied on in the long term.
carlow man
Knowledgeable
 
Posts: 338
Joined: August 22nd, 2014, 4:25 pm

Re: Leinster Front Row Options going forward

Postby Fan with smartphone » October 26th, 2017, 10:28 pm

hugonaut wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:Cronins non ireland selection is interesting.


Very surprising. Joe has a little bit of form with dropping Cro - when he picked the squad to tour the US and Canada in June 2013 [the first squad he picked] he left him out. It was only when Hartley got banned and Best got called up for the Lions that Cro was promoted from the Emerging Ireland squad.


Was it Kiss credited as in charge of that squad? Hard to imagine joe didn’t have some input anyway I suppose. I’m surprised by it too, but it’s maybe to do with covering the age profile. If they put all the eggs in the Best-Cronin basket and one or both struggle with age, form, fitness then we are caught short. It could be to do with contract situation too. I can’t see how you could leave Cronin out on ability to be honest.
Fan with smartphone
Knowledgeable
 
Posts: 478
Joined: May 18th, 2016, 7:54 pm

Re: Leinster Front Row Options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » October 26th, 2017, 10:28 pm

carlow man wrote:Cronins contract is up at end of season and maybe he is talking to others clubs so perhaps schmidt has left him out if he thinks he won't be available for Ireland after this year? If not, then picking Tracey over cronin is madness as he's nowhere near the level required for international rugby. He would get eaten alive in the 6 nations. Decent pro 14 player but if cronin is off then we need to sign a new hooker asap. Byrnes injury record doesn't tell us he can be relied on in the long term.


Bryan Byrne has a great injury record, his ability to throw...
mildlyinterested
Cian Healy
 
Posts: 2022
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Leinster Front Row Options going forward

Postby riocard911 » October 26th, 2017, 10:52 pm

I was wondering bout that too. My idea, which of course could be totally off base, is, that many of the call ups are part of a sifting process with a view to who to work with for RWC '19. Cronin has nothing to prove to Joe. He's been the best Irish hooker this season thus far, IMO. He's number two to a fit Rory Best and Joe wants to have a closer look at what's next after that i.e. Herring and Tracy.
riocard911
Mullet
 
Posts: 1429
Joined: July 27th, 2015, 10:42 pm

Re: Leinster Front Row Options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » October 27th, 2017, 8:00 am

riocard911 wrote:I was wondering bout that too. My idea, which of course could be totally off base, is, that many of the call ups are part of a sifting process with a view to who to work with for RWC '19. Cronin has nothing to prove to Joe. He's been the best Irish hooker this season thus far, IMO. He's number two to a fit Rory Best and Joe wants to have a closer look at what's next after that i.e. Herring and Tracy.


Would be the only position he is really doing that...

Maybe Cronin isn't in as good a form as some think?
mildlyinterested
Cian Healy
 
Posts: 2022
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Leinster Front Row Options going forward

Postby carlow man » October 27th, 2017, 10:15 am

Can't see how herring orTracey are going to inject any tempo or pace after replacing best who will prob give it all for 60 mins then get hooked. Cronin is the only hooker we have who can offer that and not sure why schmidt has overlooked him.
carlow man
Knowledgeable
 
Posts: 338
Joined: August 22nd, 2014, 4:25 pm

Re: Leinster Front Row Options going forward

Postby joooooe » October 27th, 2017, 11:44 am

I suspect Sean Cronin's absence from the Ireland squad is for similar reasons to Simon Zebo's. The only reason Zebo's move was announced so early was so as to pre-empt his being omitted from the Ireland squad. Clearly, Joe Schmidt said to Zebo that he would drop him if he signed for Racing Metro/PSG. He signed anyway and then made sure it was out before the Ireland squad was announced.

I suspect something similar is happening with Cronin and would not be surprised if we hear in January that he has agreed to sign for a wealthy club. In fact, I suspect the deal has already been done.
joooooe
Bookworm
 
Posts: 162
Joined: April 7th, 2009, 12:04 pm

Re: Leinster Front Row Options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » October 27th, 2017, 12:14 pm

joooooe wrote:I suspect Sean Cronin's absence from the Ireland squad is for similar reasons to Simon Zebo's. The only reason Zebo's move was announced so early was so as to pre-empt his being omitted from the Ireland squad. Clearly, Joe Schmidt said to Zebo that he would drop him if he signed for Racing Metro/PSG. He signed anyway and then made sure it was out before the Ireland squad was announced.

I suspect something similar is happening with Cronin and would not be surprised if we hear in January that he has agreed to sign for a wealthy club. In fact, I suspect the deal has already been done.


and this is all based on?
mildlyinterested
Cian Healy
 
Posts: 2022
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Leinster Front Row Options going forward

Postby joooooe » October 27th, 2017, 2:32 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:
joooooe wrote:I suspect Sean Cronin's absence from the Ireland squad is for similar reasons to Simon Zebo's. The only reason Zebo's move was announced so early was so as to pre-empt his being omitted from the Ireland squad. Clearly, Joe Schmidt said to Zebo that he would drop him if he signed for Racing Metro/PSG. He signed anyway and then made sure it was out before the Ireland squad was announced.

I suspect something similar is happening with Cronin and would not be surprised if we hear in January that he has agreed to sign for a wealthy club. In fact, I suspect the deal has already been done.


and this is all based on?


joooooe wrote:I suspect...


joooooe wrote:I suspect... and would not be surprised


joooooe wrote:...I suspect


I thought I qualified myself pretty well. Any views expressed are purely the product of my over-active and under-stimulated imagination!
joooooe
Bookworm
 
Posts: 162
Joined: April 7th, 2009, 12:04 pm

Re: Leinster Front Row Options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » October 27th, 2017, 3:14 pm

If Cronin did leave, we'd be in quite the pickle..
mildlyinterested
Cian Healy
 
Posts: 2022
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Leinster Front Row Options going forward

Postby Peg Leg » October 27th, 2017, 5:09 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:If Cronin did leave, we'd be in quite the pickle..
And this is based on...
"It was Mrs O'Leary's cow"
Daniel Sullivan
User avatar
Peg Leg
Devin Toner
 
Posts: 8637
Joined: February 1st, 2010, 6:08 pm
Location: Procrastinasia

Re: Leinster Front Row Options going forward

Postby paddyor » October 27th, 2017, 5:12 pm

joooooe wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:
joooooe wrote:I suspect Sean Cronin's absence from the Ireland squad is for similar reasons to Simon Zebo's. The only reason Zebo's move was announced so early was so as to pre-empt his being omitted from the Ireland squad. Clearly, Joe Schmidt said to Zebo that he would drop him if he signed for Racing Metro/PSG. He signed anyway and then made sure it was out before the Ireland squad was announced.

I suspect something similar is happening with Cronin and would not be surprised if we hear in January that he has agreed to sign for a wealthy club. In fact, I suspect the deal has already been done.


and this is all based on?


joooooe wrote:I suspect...


joooooe wrote:I suspect... and would not be surprised


joooooe wrote:...I suspect


I thought I qualified myself pretty well. Any views expressed are purely the product of my over-active and under-stimulated imagination!

You don't think there's maybe one too many qualifiers in there?
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
User avatar
paddyor
Malcolm O'Kelly
 
Posts: 3586
Joined: November 17th, 2012, 12:48 am

PreviousNext

Return to Leinster Addicts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AhrefsBot [Bot], Google [Bot] and 1 guest