Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

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Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » October 26th, 2017, 8:39 am

Outhalf
Jonathan Sexton(32) - Signed central 4 yr contract in 2015
Cathal Marsh(26) - Signed contract in 2016
Ross Byrne(23) - Signed contract in 2017
Joey Carbery(22) - Signed contract in 2017

Ciaran Frawley(20) - Academy Year 1

Jonathan Sexton has returned from the Lions in very good form and is signed through the world cup when he will be 34. Will he wish to continue on past that point? I certainly wouldn't be surprised assuming his body allows it. Below him Ross Byrne and Joey Carbery both signed contracts last season, it's unlikely either are out of contract this summer. Finally Cathal Marsh is very likely out of contract this summer, will Leinster look to keep him around as 4th choice 10?

In the academy, there is no recognized outhalf at the moment, although Ciaran Frawley(UCD) has played there a lot underage and at AIL level, he seems to be viewed as a inside centre by Leinster, a position he played for Ireland u20 and recently for Leinster A.

In the sub academy, there are currently two highly rated outhalves: Conor Dean(St. Marys) son of ex-ireland outhalf Paul Dean and Harry Byrne(UCD) younger brother of leinster outhalf Ross Byrne. Dean looks early favourite to lead Ireland u20 from the 10 position after playing their for Ireland under-20 last season in the junior world cup, while Byrne could challenge Dean for the starting position as a under-19. Both have already appeared for Leinster A this season.

Scrumhalf
Jamie Gibson Park(26) - Signed 3 yr contract in 2016
Luke McGrath(25) - Signed contract in 2017
Nick McCarthy(23) - Signed contract in 2017

Charlie Rock(23) - Academy Year 3
Hugh O'Sullivan(19) - Academy Year 1

Jamison Gibson Park is almost half way through his 3 year contract with Leinster, very difficult to project his future at the moment. After that both Luke McGrath and Nick McCarthy signed contracts last season so are unlikely to be out of contract, although McCarthy possibly could be, McCarthy has impressed when given a chance at pro 14 level and hopefully further opportunities are afforded to him.

In the academy, Charlie Rock(Lansdowne) is in his final year in the academy, difficult to know if he will be retained next season at this somewhat early stage. Hugh O'Sullivan(Clontarf) joined the academy straight from school and the multi talented scrumhalf who largely played fullback in school should feature heavily for Ireland u20.

In the sub academy, there are two highly rated scrumhalves currently recovering from injury: Patrick Patterson(UCD) and James Kenny. Hard to predict either's future at the moment, they are physically very different players with Patterson having the typical scrumhalf size and Kenny being very much in the Conor Murray mold physically.
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » November 3rd, 2017, 10:00 am

Patterson made his return from injury last weekend for UCD U20.

Hopefully McCarthy can have a big impact off the bench tonight.

Biggest long term question is at scrumhalf, will JGP get an extension at Leinster?
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby ChrisUppy » November 3rd, 2017, 10:47 am

mildlyinterested wrote:Patterson made his return from injury last weekend for UCD U20.

Hopefully McCarthy can have a big impact off the bench tonight.

Biggest long term question is at scrumhalf, will JGP get an extension at Leinster?


Would surely be crazy not to give JGP an extension? Yes we have some big prospects coming through but JGP is a decent option to have and is on the way to being Irish qualified too. He's surely not on mega bucks either.
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » November 3rd, 2017, 10:51 am

ChrisUppy wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:Patterson made his return from injury last weekend for UCD U20.

Hopefully McCarthy can have a big impact off the bench tonight.

Biggest long term question is at scrumhalf, will JGP get an extension at Leinster?


Would surely be crazy not to give JGP an extension? Yes we have some big prospects coming through but JGP is a decent option to have and is on the way to being Irish qualified too. He's surely not on mega bucks either.


You are probably right.. I don't think it's a certainty though either.

If he is overtaken by McCarthy between now and the end of his contract, which is a possibility, is whatever money he is on worth it for a 3rd string 9.
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby ronk » November 3rd, 2017, 12:14 pm

JGP could as easily go the other direction and find himself in Ireland squads. It looks like he’s in the process of rounding his game.

He needs one more year to qualify. Murray is 28 and out on his own but the following pack doesn’t have a standout leader (Marmion is the default option at the moment but isn’t secure there). Numbers indicate that there’s a use for an Irish player with his talent and age profile within the system.

Joe has a party trick of working well with guys from his native country.
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby neiliog93 » November 3rd, 2017, 4:45 pm

Would be mad not to give JGP an extension. Our scrum-half prospects are still very young and JGP is slowly improving. 9 is the weakest position in depth terms in Irish rugby generally, we can't be too fussy...
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » November 3rd, 2017, 4:55 pm

ronk wrote:JGP could as easily go the other direction and find himself in Ireland squads.


Could he? I don't see that at all, is far too headless at 9 for a schmidt coached team.

Maybe I can't view him without a negative bias, ever since that scarlets semi final.
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby Ruckedtobits » November 3rd, 2017, 6:30 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:
ronk wrote:JGP could as easily go the other direction and find himself in Ireland squads.


Could he? I don't see that at all, is far too headless at 9 for a schmidt coached team.

Maybe I can't view him without a negative bias, ever since that scarlets semi final.


The bias started a lot earlier than then, probably as soon as it looked like his passing was better than McGrath's.
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » November 3rd, 2017, 6:47 pm

Shame then that he isn't a better scrumhalf.
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby artaneboy » November 3rd, 2017, 7:24 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:
ronk wrote:JGP could as easily go the other direction and find himself in Ireland squads.


Could he? I don't see that at all, is far too headless at 9 for a schmidt coached team.

Maybe I can't view him without a negative bias, ever since that scarlets semi final.

Same as Sexton? Because he was the crappiest player in the pitch that day.


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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » November 3rd, 2017, 7:27 pm

Unsurprisingly sexton has more credit in the bank with me. And no JGP was worse, If luke mcgrath hadnt have went off injured.. well if wont change it now
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby artaneboy » November 3rd, 2017, 7:35 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:Shame then that he isn't a better scrumhalf.

Here we go...


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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » November 4th, 2017, 7:28 am

artaneboy wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:Shame then that he isn't a better scrumhalf.

Here we go...


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You were saying..
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby Ruckedtobits » November 4th, 2017, 10:34 am

artaneboy wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:Shame then that he isn't a better scrumhalf.

Here we go...


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+1, +1.

Totally one-eyed in that respect!
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » November 4th, 2017, 12:35 pm

Rucked, do you think JGP is a better scrumhalf the luke mcgrath?

And for the record luke is not without his flaws, he just has far less than JGP.
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby artaneboy » November 4th, 2017, 8:09 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:
artaneboy wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:Shame then that he isn't a better scrumhalf.

Here we go...


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You were saying..


I have said; probably far too much on the topic!

It’s clear that neither has established himself as the better SH. Don’t take my word for it- just observe the management team’s selection policy. No amount of fan bad-mouthing of one, will make the other better.

Jamison had a very good game in his 52 minutes on the pitch. That does not mean that Luke is a bad player- do no need to knock his ‘rival’. Some balance please-eh?


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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby wixfjord » November 4th, 2017, 8:23 pm

artaneboy wrote:
It’s clear that neither has established himself as the better SH. Don’t take my word for it- just observe the management team’s selection policy.


Ah come on now.

Whatever about subjective points in the rest of your post, this is just objectively not true.

Whether any of us agree, McGrath is our #1 9 by any objective measure.

Let's look at our biggest games since Christmas last year.

McGrath started against Saints x2, Montpellier, Castres, Wasps, Clermont, Scarlets, Munster, Montpellier and Glasgow.

I'd say that's a fairly clear pattern.
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby artaneboy » November 4th, 2017, 8:58 pm

wixfjord wrote:
artaneboy wrote:
It’s clear that neither has established himself as the better SH. Don’t take my word for it- just observe the management team’s selection policy.


Ah come on now.

Whatever about subjective points in the rest of your post, this is just objectively not true.

Whether any of us agree, McGrath is our #1 9 by any objective measure.

Let's look at our biggest games since Christmas last year.

McGrath started against Saints x2, Montpellier, Castres, Wasps, Clermont, Scarlets, Munster, Montpellier and Glasgow.

I'd say that's a fairly clear pattern.

You’re equating ‘starter’ with ‘better’ then. That’s a fairly standard judgement. But it’s not always straightforward and, whatever about their minds at the start of the season- I don’t think it’s clear to the management either at this stage.

I see the Healy/ McGrath situation at LHP as being a similar one. I think that both of those lads have had their periods of dominance, but also (including right now) times when there’s little time o separate them. And the management is using that to the benefit of the team.

No, I don’t think either Luke or Jamison are now in the position of being clearly established first choices.

Slightly off this theme, I actually think John Cooney is playing better than both, and I uselessly if wistfully wonder if we still had him here, would this debate be any sort if an issue- even to us on this forum, who’ll debate and parse anything!


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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby wixfjord » November 4th, 2017, 9:02 pm

artaneboy wrote:
wixfjord wrote:
artaneboy wrote:
It’s clear that neither has established himself as the better SH. Don’t take my word for it- just observe the management team’s selection policy.


Ah come on now.

Whatever about subjective points in the rest of your post, this is just objectively not true.

Whether any of us agree, McGrath is our #1 9 by any objective measure.

Let's look at our biggest games since Christmas last year.

McGrath started against Saints x2, Montpellier, Castres, Wasps, Clermont, Scarlets, Munster, Montpellier and Glasgow.

I'd say that's a fairly clear pattern.

I don’t think it’s clear to the management either at this stage.


No, I don’t think either Luke or Jamison are now in the position of being clearly established first choices.



You said 'observe the management team's selection policy'.

That was your chosen criteria.

The management team clearly see McGrath as our #1 9, because he has started ALL of our big games for the past year.

You're blatantly choosing to ignore the facts here dude.
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » November 4th, 2017, 9:54 pm

Mcgrath's teammates appeared to rate him pretty highly last season.

Artane has absoutely no love for mcgrath, he has never rated him and will clearly never will.
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