Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

[Jackie Brown]

A memorial to members of the IRFU killed in the two world wars is hardly sectarian.

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[outcast eddie]

Ah lads, let’s not get into all this shite.

[fourthirtythree]

I get that Nuchmidt would want Joey playing week in and out at outhalf as he is the anointed one (except that of course it is his versatility that makes him attractive to Schmidt as 22, just as with Madigan before him, and when Sexton was out he was more likely to go for a different kind of outhalf to start matches - like Keatley for example). I know that Ulster are in a pickle and it looks like Leinster have a huge logjam at 10 with some young talent coming behind and therefore it's a no-brainer to some...

BUT

I have never agreed with this view. Ulster don't need Carbery or Byrne, one of whom will definitely be out with Ireland squads and the other possibly. They don't need young outhalfs looking for experience. They have that. They need experience. And they need someone who will be available to play week in week out and there to mentor their youth. Plus: they may not have big games next season. Plus: who knows whether the environment there will be good for either next season (coaching etc.)

In Munster's case they have three outhalfs vying for the spot. They don't need anyone to develop either, they have NO patience for that down there with outhalfs any more, they want the finished product (who they will then blame when their lineout malfunctions catastrophically because others can't be blamed!), they also have their own youth who need games to develop before being gradually brought into the big games. Frankly I can see Keatley seeing off, say, Carbery for a European match. Wouuldn't be the first time Munster managements will have made that kind of choice. As people are talking up Madigan right now don't forget that Schmidt chose Keatley to start ahead of him.

The IRFU does not want them to leave for another country, booting them up the road to where they are unlikely to be in the running for medals would be a quick way of making that happen. They will get plenty of time. Unless he gets injured for Ireland again for most of this year Carbery will be played at 10 in Pro14 games whenever Schmidt gets the call (which is... sometimes) and Byrne will get time too. Frawley might have a year or two of limited chances but I hope that Ross Byrne can really put himself in contention for Ireland next year which would up his chances.

Or Bleyendaaal could get better and Munster would be out of the equation.

But neither province looks to me to be set up to develop these players right now. I don't think the players want it. They might not be the provinces first options either.

The whole thing never sat right with me. The story is pretty suspect too (as pointed out above, if they want a particular player to move why would they ask Leo to choose? How can Leo choose which player gets to decide he wants to go to Norn?) and I've been calling bullshit on the narrative around this since it kicked off. Yes. Eddie O'Sullivan was trolling. They need to go North. Or South. Anywhere but Leinster. For... reasons.

[neiliog93]

A memorial to members of the IRFU killed in the two world wars is hardly sectarian.

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True. But to many people, neither is commemorating people who died trying to liberate their country which had long been occupied, with some awful results.

[Twist]

A memorial to members of the IRFU killed in the two world wars is hardly sectarian.

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Neither is Ian Madigan or his boots!


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[fourthirtythree]

Ideology is what you think when you think you are not thinking.

[Andrew097]

I get that Nuchmidt would want Joey playing week in and out at outhalf as he is the anointed one (except that of course it is his versatility that makes him attractive to Schmidt as 22, just as with Madigan before him, and when Sexton was out he was more likely to go for a different kind of outhalf to start matches - like Keatley for example). I know that Ulster are in a pickle and it looks like Leinster have a huge logjam at 10 with some young talent coming behind and therefore it's a no-brainer to some...

BUT

I have never agreed with this view. Ulster don't need Carbery or Byrne, one of whom will definitely be out with Ireland squads and the other possibly. They don't need young outhalfs looking for experience. They have that. They need experience. And they need someone who will be available to play week in week out and there to mentor their youth. Plus: they may not have big games next season. Plus: who knows whether the environment there will be good for either next season (coaching etc.)

In Munster's case they have three outhalfs vying for the spot. They don't need anyone to develop either, they have NO patience for that down there with outhalfs any more, they want the finished product (who they will then blame when their lineout malfunctions catastrophically because others can't be blamed!), they also have their own youth who need games to develop before being gradually brought into the big games. Frankly I can see Keatley seeing off, say, Carbery for a European match. Wouuldn't be the first time Munster managements will have made that kind of choice. As people are talking up Madigan right now don't forget that Schmidt chose Keatley to start ahead of him.

The IRFU does not want them to leave for another country, booting them up the road to where they are unlikely to be in the running for medals would be a quick way of making that happen. They will get plenty of time. Unless he gets injured for Ireland again for most of this year Carbery will be played at 10 in Pro14 games whenever Schmidt gets the call (which is... sometimes) and Byrne will get time too. Frawley might have a year or two of limited chances but I hope that Ross Byrne can really put himself in contention for Ireland next year which would up his chances.

Or Bleyendaaal could get better and Munster would be out of the equation.

But neither province looks to me to be set up to develop these players right now. I don't think the players want it. They might not be the provinces first options either.

The whole thing never sat right with me. The story is pretty suspect too (as pointed out above, if they want a particular player to move why would they ask Leo to choose? How can Leo choose which player gets to decide he wants to go to Norn?) and I've been calling bullshit on the narrative around this since it kicked off. Yes. Eddie O'Sullivan was trolling. They need to go North. Or South. Anywhere but Leinster. For... reasons.

You have it right 433 Sexton and Carbery will be off on Ireland duty which will give Byrne plenty of game time. Playing JS and JC nearly turn about would give JC the game time he needs and save JS a few miles on the clock squeezing out a season or two extra. While getting the best form of mentoring now. If you send off these young lads and either they dont save Ulster and Munster they will be castigated particularly by sections of the media and public that cannot help but be anti Leinster. The idea that a young out half from Leinster is going to want to play in Ulster leaving the chance of playing for one of the best teams in Europe to play for a poor team at the moment with no coaching ticket is just not going to wash with anybody. If the kid is anything less then great every week he will get dogs abuse. No coaches, poor team, mad pressure is hardly the environment for a young player to become better. As for sending a young back to Munster to develop forget it they only know how to play with an outhalf that kicks 10 man rugby. They have three outhalfs there and all of them have gone backwards over their time at Munster.

Munster have a good outhalf in Hanrahan except they have played him all over the park and no player becomes a good outhalf playing fullback. Madigan suffered from his versatility. Playing six games all over the place , starting one at outhalf played so so and then gets mega abuse because he was not great and didnt take his chance.

[mildlyinterested]

I think Nick McCarthy's recent performances underlines the need for young 9's to play as much rugby as possible, the fact that nick hasn't played AIL in two seasons is a problem.. especially when his biggest work-on appears to be his decision making.

Given limited number of scrumhalves in the academy, I can see why he hasn't been playing AIL but IMO it has hampered his development.

having more scrumhalves in academy setup would allow young 9's more gametime at AIL as the fear of injury causing a lack of depth would be lessened.. any other ideas on how leinster rugby could improve their scrumhalf development at pre-senior level?

[TrapperChamonix]

O'Sullivan is in academy now and I'd be surprised if Patterson doesn't join him next year

[mildlyinterested]

O'Sullivan is in academy now and I'd be surprised if Patterson doesn't join him next year

I dunno about Patterson.. i'd rate both James Kenny and Cormac Foley ahead of him.

But even still two academy scrumhalves is the bare minimum to have IMO.

[mildlyinterested]

Joey Carbery is believed to be strongly considering a short-term deal to move to Ulster just for next season.
The Leinster playmaker is contemplating leaving his home province on order to secure his position as one of the Ireland out-halves for the 2019 Rugby World Cup.

Coach Joe Schmidt has made his opinion known that Carbery needs significant game time at out-half next season.

However, Schmidt does not have the power to insist coaches Leo Cullen and Stuart Lancaster hand him the number 10 shirt at Leinster.

It is understood Schmidt and Carbery met for a discussion in a Dublin 6 café on Sunday.

Leinster are concerned at the price they have to pay for bringing through Ireland international and whether it could hinder their ability to compete on two fronts next season, especially in the Champions Cup.

[curates_egg]

It is understood Schmidt and Carbery met for a discussion in a Dublin 6 café on Sunday.

It's understood? The pic was all over the interweb for the past two days.



Whatever about the rights and wrongs of this move (which I think makes no sense for any party except, maybe, Schmidt), it is a f%~king disgrace that he is pulling this sh!t in the run up to the most important game since he left Leinster. f%~king c**t.

*Am interested to see what the programme makes of my profanities*

[blockhead]

Comments by BOD that Plumbers Leinster is probably better that Joe's Leinster may have irked him.

[Oldschool]

It is understood Schmidt and Carbery met for a discussion in a Dublin 6 café on Sunday.

It's understood? The pic was all over the interweb for the past two days.



Whatever about the rights and wrongs of this move (which I think makes no sense for any party except, maybe, Schmidt), it is a f%~king disgrace that he is pulling this sh!t in the run up to the most important game since he left Leinster. f%~king c**t.

*Am interested to see what the programme makes of my profanities*

The body language is interesting.
Joey very thoughtful looking.
Joe there it is but asking rather than telling,
It'll be good for your career Joe(y).
Who's the third person at the table - Drico?
The curse of social media strikes again.
Now why would the lads meet in public.
Usually it's diversionary.
This one photo is worth a whole thread on it's own.
Could be the most far reaching threesome ever, in the history of Leinster and Irish rugby.

[neiliog93]

Indo have changed the wording to 'Carbery read to move to Ulster' on short-term deal (presumably one season) before the RWC. No doubt Ulster fans will complain their province is being used to develop an out-half for Ireland's world cup, rather than being grateful to receive IRFU interference to get one of Leinster's best young players!

[Oldschool]

Indo have changed the wording to 'Carbery read to move to Ulster' on short-term deal (presumably one season) before the RWC. No doubt Ulster fans will complain their province is being used to develop an out-half for Ireland's world cup, rather than being grateful to receive IRFU interference to get one of Leinster's best young players!

Buys them time to develop their own.

[Barry]

It is understood Schmidt and Carbery met for a discussion in a Dublin 6 café on Sunday.

It's understood? The pic was all over the interweb for the past two days.



Whatever about the rights and wrongs of this move (which I think makes no sense for any party except, maybe, Schmidt), it is a f%~king disgrace that he is pulling this sh!t in the run up to the most important game since he left Leinster. f%~king c**t.

*Am interested to see what the programme makes of my profanities*

The body language is interesting.
Joey very thoughtful looking.
Joe there it is but asking rather than telling,
It'll be good for your career Joe(y).
Who's the third person at the table - Drico?
The curse of social media strikes again.
Now why would the lads meet in public.
Usually it's diversionary.
This one photo is worth a whole thread on it's own.
Could be the most far reaching threesome ever, in the history of Leinster and Irish rugby.

anyone know the blonde woman with her back to Joey ? hope she was taking notes

[blockhead]

anyone know the blonde woman with her back to Joey ? hope she was taking notes

Could be Richie Gray?
Or Xhanthipe

[Blue not red blood]

Joey is holding on to his nuts in case Joe gets nasty
The smiling assasian

A one year loan could be a good compromise as all parties would benefit

[Laighin Break]

It is understood Schmidt and Carbery met for a discussion in a Dublin 6 café on Sunday.

It's understood? The pic was all over the interweb for the past two days.



Whatever about the rights and wrongs of this move (which I think makes no sense for any party except, maybe, Schmidt), it is a f%~king disgrace that he is pulling this sh!t in the run up to the most important game since he left Leinster. f%~king c**t.

*Am interested to see what the programme makes of my profanities*

The body language is interesting.
Joey very thoughtful looking.
Joe there it is but asking rather than telling,
It'll be good for your career Joe(y).
Who's the third person at the table - Drico?
The curse of social media strikes again.
Now why would the lads meet in public.
Usually it's diversionary.
This one photo is worth a whole thread on it's own.
Could be the most far reaching threesome ever, in the history of Leinster and Irish rugby.

Think I read elsewhere that it was Easterby