Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

[Caliphi]

On a bit of a tangent, but we may have a similar problem to last year if Luke is injured, and the ridiculous 3 Antipodean limit kicks in again.Now compounded by Tomane being an Aussie. Is it too late to find a reasonable quality S.H. in the UK of sufficient standard to play a European match and still allow us to field Fardy as well as Lowe/Tomane?

[johng]

Tomane has no bearing on the situation whatsoever as he is on a Samoan passport.

This is also Mph's last season as an NiQ. He qualifies for Ireland before the WC.

So no issues after that as you can be sure they will not put themselves in that position again

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Not questioning you Johng but does anyone know what rule will actually allow BFG to not count as being a New Zealander? As far as I know the residency rule is simply a world rugby one that says you can qualify after a certain amount of time, and that the rules preventing us playing all three Auszealanders together were EPRC/PRO14 rules based on nationality. He won't be an Irish citizen next year though, so which rule will allow him to count as being Irish?

[johng]

Yep. If he is IQ he is ok. For an lpg.

[hugonaut]

Outhalf
Jonathan Sexton(33) - is coming off an incredible season, cementing himself as the best 10 ever in Irish rugby. He played 12 times for Leinster last season, with 11 starts for 714 minutes. Don't expect him to exceed those numbers this season with the World Cup on the horizon.
Ross Byrne(23) - cemented himself as Seton's primary backup last season, when he played 26 times for Leinster, with 19 starts for 1560 minutes. Leinster will be relying heavily upon him again this upcoming season, given Carbery's transfer south and the inexperience of options in the academy.

Ciaran Frawley(20) - settled back into outhalf position last season after playing 12 as a under-20. Will be called upon in Pro 14 this season and potentially in europe if injury strikes. Made leinster debut last season, amassing 3 appearances, with 1 start.
Harry Byrne(19) - joining the academy after a good irish under-20 campaign last season, eligible again this season but will likely be required by Leinster during 6 nations.

Scrumhalf
Jamie Gibson Park(26) - coming off a strong finish to last season, Park made 22 appearances last season for Leinster with 12 starts for 925 minutes.
Luke McGrath(25) - injury distributed the end of his season, but still a key player for leinster, McGrath made 20 appearances last season with 17 starts for 1219 minutes.
Nick McCarthy(23) - made 21 appearances last season, but only 3 starts for 462 minutes, big season ahead for the former ireland under-20 captain.

Hugh O'Sullivan(20) - entering his second season in the academy, will hope to continue to improve as he gains more experience at the position for Clontarf.
Paddy Patterson(19-20) - joining the academy after 1 sub appearance for ireland under-20, will be hoping to stay injury free and show potential for UCD.

That was a text book split at scrum-half last season: 22 games [12+10] for JGP, 21 [3+18] for McCarthy and 20 [17+3] for Luke McGrath. Couldn't plan it better - everyone got loads of games, the best player made the most starts, the second best made the next most and the youngest made the least ... but still got loads of opportunities.

JGP is quite the unsung hero. He splits the audience on the board here, but outside of Leinster he's hardly ever referenced. His kicking game improved dramatically this season, which had previously been a weakness for him.

[wixfjord]

His kicking game improved dramatically this season, which had previously been a weakness for him.

Jaysus, not so sure about that!

He kicked generally well against Scarlets, but had a couple of absolute mares throughout the season as well.

[riocard911]

Outhalf
Jonathan Sexton(33) - is coming off an incredible season, cementing himself as the best 10 ever in Irish rugby. He played 12 times for Leinster last season, with 11 starts for 714 minutes. Don't expect him to exceed those numbers this season with the World Cup on the horizon.
Ross Byrne(23) - cemented himself as Seton's primary backup last season, when he played 26 times for Leinster, with 19 starts for 1560 minutes. Leinster will be relying heavily upon him again this upcoming season, given Carbery's transfer south and the inexperience of options in the academy.

Ciaran Frawley(20) - settled back into outhalf position last season after playing 12 as a under-20. Will be called upon in Pro 14 this season and potentially in europe if injury strikes. Made leinster debut last season, amassing 3 appearances, with 1 start.
Harry Byrne(19) - joining the academy after a good irish under-20 campaign last season, eligible again this season but will likely be required by Leinster during 6 nations.

Scrumhalf
Jamie Gibson Park(26) - coming off a strong finish to last season, Park made 22 appearances last season for Leinster with 12 starts for 925 minutes.
Luke McGrath(25) - injury distributed the end of his season, but still a key player for leinster, McGrath made 20 appearances last season with 17 starts for 1219 minutes.
Nick McCarthy(23) - made 21 appearances last season, but only 3 starts for 462 minutes, big season ahead for the former ireland under-20 captain.

Hugh O'Sullivan(20) - entering his second season in the academy, will hope to continue to improve as he gains more experience at the position for Clontarf.
Paddy Patterson(19-20) - joining the academy after 1 sub appearance for ireland under-20, will be hoping to stay injury free and show potential for UCD.

That was a text book split at scrum-half last season: 22 games [12+10] for JGP, 21 [3+18] for McCarthy and 20 [17+3] for Luke McGrath. Couldn't plan it better - everyone got loads of games, the best player made the most starts, the second best made the next most and the youngest made the least ... but still got loads of opportunities.

JGP is quite the unsung hero. He splits the audience on the board here, but outside of Leinster he's hardly ever referenced. His kicking game improved dramatically this season, which had previously been a weakness for him.

Gibson-Park played an important part in run-in to the double. In his weak areas - box kicks, tackling - he's improved. Delighted for him and delighted for us to have him

[LeRouxIsPHat]

A good old JGP/Lukey debate should see us through to the first game of the season. I'm dying for more rugby...or to fight someone...whichever comes first.

[Peg Leg]

Outhalf
Jonathan Sexton(33) - is coming off an incredible season, cementing himself as the best 10 ever in Irish rugby. He played 12 times for Leinster last season, with 11 starts for 714 minutes. Don't expect him to exceed those numbers this season with the World Cup on the horizon.
Ross Byrne(23) - cemented himself as Seton's primary backup last season, when he played 26 times for Leinster, with 19 starts for 1560 minutes. Leinster will be relying heavily upon him again this upcoming season, given Carbery's transfer south and the inexperience of options in the academy.

Ciaran Frawley(20) - settled back into outhalf position last season after playing 12 as a under-20. Will be called upon in Pro 14 this season and potentially in europe if injury strikes. Made leinster debut last season, amassing 3 appearances, with 1 start.
Harry Byrne(19) - joining the academy after a good irish under-20 campaign last season, eligible again this season but will likely be required by Leinster during 6 nations.

Scrumhalf
Jamie Gibson Park(26) - coming off a strong finish to last season, Park made 22 appearances last season for Leinster with 12 starts for 925 minutes.
Luke McGrath(25) - injury distributed the end of his season, but still a key player for leinster, McGrath made 20 appearances last season with 17 starts for 1219 minutes.
Nick McCarthy(23) - made 21 appearances last season, but only 3 starts for 462 minutes, big season ahead for the former ireland under-20 captain.

Hugh O'Sullivan(20) - entering his second season in the academy, will hope to continue to improve as he gains more experience at the position for Clontarf.
Paddy Patterson(19-20) - joining the academy after 1 sub appearance for ireland under-20, will be hoping to stay injury free and show potential for UCD.

That was a text book split at scrum-half last season: 22 games [12+10] for JGP, 21 [3+18] for McCarthy and 20 [17+3] for Luke McGrath. Couldn't plan it better - everyone got loads of games, the best player made the most starts, the second best made the next most and the youngest made the least ... but still got loads of opportunities.

JGP is quite the unsung hero. He splits the audience on the board here, but outside of Leinster he's hardly ever referenced. His kicking game improved dramatically this season, which had previously been a weakness for him.

Gibson-Park played an important part in run-in to the double. In his weak areas - box kicks, tackling - he's improved. Delighted for him and delighted for us to have him

Who?

[Peg Leg]

A good old JGP/Lukey debate should see us through to the first game of the season. I'm dying for more rugby...or to fight someone...whichever comes first.

Back of the bicycle shed 12:00, come alone and bring your lunch money.

[TerenureJim]

A good old JGP/Lukey debate should see us through to the first game of the season. I'm dying for more rugby...or to fight someone...whichever comes first.

Back of the bicycle shed 12:00, come alone and bring your lunch money.

Come alone and bring your lunch money? Em phrasing

[outcast eddie]

A good old JGP/Lukey debate should see us through to the first game of the season. I'm dying for more rugby...or to fight someone...whichever comes first.

JWT is by far the superior scrum half of the two. He plays heads up rugby while sniping around the fringes. He's been a great servant to the game and can always be relied upon to do the heavy lifting. His work rate is phenomenal and he's frequently seen on the training pitch in all weathers, hours after the session has ended, practicing unseen work. Every time he pulls on the jersey his organisation in defense is a great example to the younger stalwarts.

[johng]

As far as I know the residency rule is simply a world rugby one that says you can qualify after a certain amount of time, and that the rules preventing us playing all three Auszealanders together were EPRC/PRO14 rules based on nationality. He won't be an Irish citizen next year though, so which rule will allow him to count as being Irish?

Sorry I didn't read the which rule bit. If World Rugby sanction him to potentially play for his country in the WC then tournaments sanctioned by World Rugby can hardly exclude he from playing for his province based on being "foreign". There must be examples of players in this position surely. Bleyendaal. Jarrod Payne a few years ago. etc. etc. Won't happen in future as 5 years is enough to satisfy both criteria.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

As far as I know the residency rule is simply a world rugby one that says you can qualify after a certain amount of time, and that the rules preventing us playing all three Auszealanders together were EPRC/PRO14 rules based on nationality. He won't be an Irish citizen next year though, so which rule will allow him to count as being Irish?

Sorry I didn't read the which rule bit. If World Rugby sanction him to potentially play for his country in the WC then tournaments sanctioned by World Rugby can hardly exclude he from playing for his province based on being "foreign". There must be examples of players in this position surely. Bleyendaal. Jarrod Payne a few years ago. etc. etc. Won't happen in future as 5 years is enough to satisfy both criteria.

Yeah I was thinking that but was far too lazy to actually go and check squads when people qualified. Thanks!

[LeRouxIsPHat]

A good old JGP/Lukey debate should see us through to the first game of the season. I'm dying for more rugby...or to fight someone...whichever comes first.

Back of the bicycle shed 12:00, come alone and bring your lunch money.

Thought you meant midnight and didn't have any lunch money left at that stage anyway.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

A good old JGP/Lukey debate should see us through to the first game of the season. I'm dying for more rugby...or to fight someone...whichever comes first.

JWT is by far the superior scrum half of the two. He plays heads up rugby while sniping around the fringes. He's been a great servant to the game and can always be relied upon to do the heavy lifting. His work rate is phenomenal and he's frequently seen on the training pitch in all weathers, hours after the session has ended, practicing unseen work. Every time he pulls on the jersey his organisation in defense is a great example to the younger stalwarts.

Okay I didn't actually want to get into this...but Luke's hair is far superior and I think that counts for a lot.

[Dave Cahill]

The World Rugby International Qualification Process (WRIQP for simplicity) - previously three years, now five - and Nationality are different things and do cause confusion.

1. If a player is qualified to play for country A through WRIQP, then he is free to play in any competition that country A participates in without restriction - regardless of his nationality.
2. If a player is qualified to play for country A through nationality, then he is free to play in any competition that country A participates in without restriction.
3. If a player is national of country A, or a national of a country with a reciprocal labour agreement with country A, then he is free to play in any competition that country A participates in without restriction - regardless of his status under the WRIQP
4. Players currently undergoing WRIQP in country A and who are not nationals of countries with a reciprocal labour agreement with country A are subject to whatever restrictions are determined by the competition/country
5. Players who are not nationals of country A and are not nationals of countries with a reciprocal labour agreement with country A are subject to whatever restrictions are determined by the competition/country

Examples of 1. are the likes of Stander, Strauss, Aki et al
Examples of 2. are the likes of Ringrose, Sexton etc as well as Bent, Burns minor or Easterby
Examples of 3. include 'kolpak' players as well as the likes of Finegan, Berne, Mafi or Tomane as well as players who are naturalised Irish/EU Citizens
Examples of 4. include the likes of JGP, James Lowe, Jean Kleyn
Examples of 5. include the likes of Scott Fardy.


It will be interesting to see what happens to this post-brexit. If the UK strikes a reciprocal labour agreement with NZ or Australia, then one would have to assume that these players will be allowed play in the Premiership/HEC for UK clubs without restriction, but what about France and Italy (for example) and what about Ireland which in Rugby will be territorially both in the UK and Ireland

[Dave Cahill]

That was a text book split at scrum-half last season: 22 games [12+10] for JGP, 21 [3+18] for McCarthy and 20 [17+3] for Luke McGrath. Couldn't plan it better - everyone got loads of games, the best player made the most starts, the second best made the next most and the youngest made the least ... but still got loads of opportunities.

JGP is quite the unsung hero. He splits the audience on the board here, but outside of Leinster he's hardly ever referenced. His kicking game improved dramatically this season, which had previously been a weakness for him.

It also showed how professional and competitive both players are - both had weaknesses (for want of a better word) in their game that the other would count as strengths but both worked to improve those areas to the extent that the only significant difference between them now is not one of quality or ability but international qualification and its knock on effects

[Lar]

It will be interesting to see what happens to this post-brexit. If the UK strikes a reciprocal labour agreement with NZ or Australia, then one would have to assume that these players will be allowed play in the Premiership/HEC for UK clubs without restriction, but what about France and Italy (for example) and what about Ireland which in Rugby will be territorially both in the UK and Ireland

But equally will the UK immediately exit Kolpak on Brexit and what implications might that have for currently exempt players in the UK suddenly no longer being exempt?

[Dave Cahill]

It will be interesting to see what happens to this post-brexit. If the UK strikes a reciprocal labour agreement with NZ or Australia, then one would have to assume that these players will be allowed play in the Premiership/HEC for UK clubs without restriction, but what about France and Italy (for example) and what about Ireland which in Rugby will be territorially both in the UK and Ireland

But equally will the UK immediately exit Kolpak on Brexit and what implications might that have for currently exempt players in the UK suddenly no longer being exempt?

Very true! Good call.