Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

[Ruckedtobits]

One of the aspects which hasn't been raised is whether Joey can play at out-half for Ireland in the style that Ireland currently play. Joe is not going to alter the style of Irish play just to accomodate Joey's different skill set. Joey tends to take on the defence himself more than J10. This is higher risk rugby than Joe generally favours.

The Irish pack at present and the Leinster (European) pack are in general dominant, or at very least highly competitive. The Ulster pack is far from that standard. An outhalf who runs ball behind a pack which is not dominant does not generally have a long shelf life. Trying to develop Joey as an international out-half, capable of leading a winning international team, would have a far higher chance of success in Leinster, or dare I say Munster. Doing so in Ulster will be a very big stretch.

[mildlyinterested]

when will it be resolved/announced? next week in the lead up to the final?

[Dexter]

One of the aspects which hasn't been raised is whether Joey can play at out-half for Ireland in the style that Ireland currently play. Joe is not going to alter the style of Irish play just to accomodate Joey's different skill set. Joey tends to take on the defence himself more than J10. This is higher risk rugby than Joe generally favours.

The Irish pack at present and the Leinster (European) pack are in general dominant, or at very least highly competitive. The Ulster pack is far from that standard. An outhalf who runs ball behind a pack which is not dominant does not generally have a long shelf life. Trying to develop Joey as an international out-half, capable of leading a winning international team, would have a far higher chance of success in Leinster, or dare I say Munster. Doing so in Ulster will be a very big stretch.

So, given the supposed deterioration of the Ulster pack and squad in general, PJ may have had a difficult time at 10 this season anyway, in an alternate universe where he was still playing for Ulster? Or was he a major part of the deterioration? It's hard to know....

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I heard some good news about Joey that MIGHT indicate that he's staying, nothing concrete though.

[OTT]

I heard some good news about Joey that MIGHT indicate that he's staying, nothing concrete though.

Does it involve Robbie Deans?



Never gets old. Sorry!

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I heard some good news about Joey that MIGHT indicate that he's staying, nothing concrete though.

Does it involve Robbie Deans?



Never gets old. Sorry!

I deserve to be slagged...but nothing will convince me that I didn't see him...even if it ends up with me shouting about to strangers as I wear a straight jacket...which isn't far off!

[desperado]

One of the aspects which hasn't been raised is whether Joey can play at out-half for Ireland in the style that Ireland currently play. Joe is not going to alter the style of Irish play just to accomodate Joey's different skill set. Joey tends to take on the defence himself more than J10. This is higher risk rugby than Joe generally favours.

The Irish pack at present and the Leinster (European) pack are in general dominant, or at very least highly competitive. The Ulster pack is far from that standard. An outhalf who runs ball behind a pack which is not dominant does not generally have a long shelf life. Trying to develop Joey as an international out-half, capable of leading a winning international team, would have a far higher chance of success in Leinster, or dare I say Munster. Doing so in Ulster will be a very big stretch.

If the objective is 'Get JC gametime at 10 in preparation to be JS backup at RWC2019' and 'at a club where he will be No.1' and 'behind a dominant pack' > then it has to be Munster (wash my mouth out with carbolic soap). It also fits nicely with playing with Irelands no.1 SH. Maybe this Ulster thing is 'smoke and daggers' or 'cloak and mirrors' and really Schmidifora are looking at something else. It'll be interesting to see how Keatley plays over (what's left) of the season - but his confidence can't be sky high at the moment; JJ is not the answer and IMO regardless of fitness neither is TB (flakey).

[deco]

One of the aspects which hasn't been raised is whether Joey can play at out-half for Ireland in the style that Ireland currently play. Joe is not going to alter the style of Irish play just to accomodate Joey's different skill set. Joey tends to take on the defence himself more than J10. This is higher risk rugby than Joe generally favours.

The Irish pack at present and the Leinster (European) pack are in general dominant, or at very least highly competitive. The Ulster pack is far from that standard. An outhalf who runs ball behind a pack which is not dominant does not generally have a long shelf life. Trying to develop Joey as an international out-half, capable of leading a winning international team, would have a far higher chance of success in Leinster, or dare I say Munster. Doing so in Ulster will be a very big stretch.

If the objective is 'Get JC gametime at 10 in preparation to be JS backup at RWC2019' and 'at a club where he will be No.1' and 'behind a dominant pack' > then it has to be Munster (wash my mouth out with carbolic soap). It also fits nicely with playing with Irelands no.1 SH. Maybe this Ulster thing is 'smoke and daggers' or 'cloak and mirrors' and really Schmidifora are looking at something else. It'll be interesting to see how Keatley plays over (what's left) of the season - but his confidence can't be sky high at the moment; JJ is not the answer and IMO regardless of fitness neither is TB (flakey).

Eh, they have purchased 3 outhalves already

[desperado]

will any of them be backing up JS at RWC2019?

[deco]

will any of them be backing up JS at RWC2019?

Would JC be guaranteed to start at 10 ahead of Keatley/JJ/TB?

Any conversation I've heard regarding him moving to our 6 toed friends sees him replacing Zeebo/being a utility back. Which is exactly what he has been for Leinster this season.

Anyway they wouldn't want him on a one year deal.

[desperado]

If he's good enough to be JS backup; he's good enough to start ahead of those 3; hell, he's better than they are regardless. Whether he's guaranteed or not... who knows. Don't think anybody would be asking him to move to Mordor to be a utility back; no benefit to anybody in that change. Since I posted I've seen ROG is on about it in the Indo (and I'm not ROG).

[Dave Cahill]

I don't see what Ulster get out of this except for pretty-limited fairly short term questionable gain. They have an inexperienced outhalf for a season who will miss chunks of that season. If he turns out well, then after next season they're back where they started from - if he doesn't then they'll never have left where they started from. Either way, its just kicking the tin down the road and at the start of season 19-20 they're where they are right now.

If McPhillips is staying (which is apparently not certain) then instead of bringing in JC or RB, then what they need is an experienced outhalf who won't overly mind a mentoring role more than a starting one.

[johng]

That's just it. What they need is a can kicking exercise. No one available this side of the wc.

Kicking the can down the road gives them a year to find a player that can mentor the next gen.

Ross Byrne gets a year of trying to be number 2

Joey gets a year of starting at 10 with the promise of returning to Leinster.

Ireland get exposure for back up 10 (hopefully in chumps cup)

Leinster get....... well their player back after wc and a chance to develop the next gen

[Dave Cahill]

That's just it. What they need is a can kicking exercise. No one available this side of the wc.

Kicking the can down the road gives them a year to find a player that can mentor the next gen.

Ross Byrne gets a year of trying to be number 2

Joey gets a year of starting at 10 with the promise of returning to Leinster.

Ireland get exposure for back up 10 (hopefully in chumps cup)

Leinster get....... well their player back after wc and a chance to develop the next gen

What they need is an outhalf.

Right now they don't have an outhalf

In 12 months time they won't have an outhalf.

Ulster get nothing out of this.

[Oldschool]

I actually think 1 year with Ulster with the potential to return is maybe not the worst outcome in the longer term.

assuming he returns.. its a bad precedent to set and likely would only the beginning of this practice..

its poor leinster have to deal with this cr@p so close to the final..

Would this have happened if 'that' night never happened chez Jackson. He was the OH in SA tour where we won, and could have had a series win. He (Jackson) was nailed on Jonny's backup. I can't see this as anything other than a ''Needs must'" situation (as viewed by JS) and not something that will become common practice. I don't think this would be happening if Jacko was still in place; had played all season. I think JS see's Joey as potentially the next best OH to Jonny come 2019 - but he needs to ensure that's the case; I don't think he's fully convinced. There's a huge difference coming on with 20 left versus starting a difficult test and having to say play catchup. I'm not so sure myself that Joey will turn out to be a better OH than FB. From Leinsters perspective next year, from what I've seen of Frawley I think he could become the real deal and who's to say Ross Byrne doesn't take it to another level next year and even make it as Jonnys Ireland backup.
Regardless though, the timing is terrible and has to be unsettling. Can't think of any good reason it couldn't wait until after the final.

I'll say it.
RB won't take it to the next level next year.

[riocard911]

That's just it. What they need is a can kicking exercise. No one available this side of the wc.

Kicking the can down the road gives them a year to find a player that can mentor the next gen.

Ross Byrne gets a year of trying to be number 2

Joey gets a year of starting at 10 with the promise of returning to Leinster.

Ireland get exposure for back up 10 (hopefully in chumps cup)

Leinster get....... well their player back after wc and a chance to develop the next gen

What they need is an outhalf.

Right now they don't have an outhalf

In 12 months time they won't have an outhalf.

Ulster get nothing out of this.

I can see both sides of the argument, regard John's points as slightly more pertinent. Let Joe do his RWC thing "for Ireland!!!", Joey get his experience and Ulster can sort themselves out....

[artaneboy]

That's just it. What they need is a can kicking exercise. No one available this side of the wc.

Kicking the can down the road gives them a year to find a player that can mentor the next gen.

Ross Byrne gets a year of trying to be number 2

Joey gets a year of starting at 10 with the promise of returning to Leinster.

Ireland get exposure for back up 10 (hopefully in chumps cup)

Leinster get....... well their player back after wc and a chance to develop the next gen

What they need is an outhalf.

Right now they don't have an outhalf

In 12 months time they won't have an outhalf.

Ulster get nothing out of this.

Yes they do: they get a quality out half for a season. Okay, he’ll be on international duty for part of that year, but the same would apply with Jackson. It’s as close to like-for-like as can be imagined.

In the meantime Ulster and the IRFU can look at developing a more permanent Irish qualified replacement- or sourcing an NIQ, of which there will likely be much more available after the World Cup.

It’s not perfect- but it’s better than where they are now.


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[Dave Cahill]

Yes they do: they get a quality out half for a season. Okay, he’ll be on international duty for part of that year, but the same would apply with Jackson. It’s as close to like-for-like as can be imagined.

In the meantime Ulster and the IRFU can look at developing a more permanent Irish qualified replacement- or sourcing an NIQ, of which there will likely be much more available after the World Cup.

It’s not perfect- but it’s better than where they are now.


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But they aren't getting a quality outhalf for a season. They're getting an inexperienced outhalf for most of a season. He might be quality, he hasn't shown it yet. They already have an inexperienced outhalf. This is simply adding ketchup to ketchup

The question no one is thinking about is what if McFarland sees what Leocaster have seen? And instead of replacing Jackson, he ends up replacing Piutau. Where does that leave everyone I wonder.

[Blueberry]

Yes they do: they get a quality out half for a season. Okay, he’ll be on international duty for part of that year, but the same would apply with Jackson. It’s as close to like-for-like as can be imagined.

In the meantime Ulster and the IRFU can look at developing a more permanent Irish qualified replacement- or sourcing an NIQ, of which there will likely be much more available after the World Cup.

It’s not perfect- but it’s better than where they are now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But they aren't getting a quality outhalf for a season. They're getting an inexperienced outhalf for most of a season. He might be quality, he hasn't shown it yet. They already have an inexperienced outhalf. This is simply adding ketchup to ketchup

The question no one is thinking about is what if McFarland sees what Leocaster have seen? And instead of replacing Jackson, he ends up replacing Piutau. Where does that leave everyone I wonder.

Totally agree it makes little or no sense from an Ulster perspective, will take him a few games to bed in, then off on intl duty, back for a few, more intl duty then WC then back to Leinster.....ketchup to ketchup

[Blueberry]

And I wish they would stop fecking around the week before the biggest Leinster match in 6 years....can it not be parked until post Bilbao....