Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby artaneboy » November 4th, 2017, 9:59 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:Mcgrath's teammates appeared to rate him pretty highly last season.

Artane has absoutely no love for mcgrath, he has never rated him and will clearly never will.

That’s just not true. I don’t rate him as high relatively as you and others may do- but that in no way means I don’t rate his skills.

What you apparently mean by ‘rate’ is declare he’s much better than JGP. That I certainly don’t do.


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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby artaneboy » November 4th, 2017, 10:14 pm

wixfjord wrote:
artaneboy wrote:
wixfjord wrote:[quote="artaneboy"]

It’s clear that neither has established himself as the better SH. Don’t take my word for it- just observe the management team’s selection policy.


Ah come on now.

Whatever about subjective points in the rest of your post, this is just objectively not true.

Whether any of us agree, McGrath is our #1 9 by any objective measure.

Let's look at our biggest games since Christmas last year.

McGrath started against Saints x2, Montpellier, Castres, Wasps, Clermont, Scarlets, Munster, Montpellier and Glasgow.

I'd say that's a fairly clear pattern.

I don’t think it’s clear to the management either at this stage.


No, I don’t think either Luke or Jamison are now in the position of being clearly established first choices.



You said 'observe the management team's selection policy'.

That was your chosen criteria.

The management team clearly see McGrath as our #1 9, because he has started ALL of our big games for the past year.

You're blatantly choosing to ignore the facts here dude.[/quote]
Look, we are in danger of entering a Twilight Zone of “you said that: therefore...” murkiness. I’ve addressed the equivalence of ‘starting’ with being ‘better’ already. You haven’t picked up in that. There was also a contention on this forum (mistaken in my view) that Luke was a better ‘starter’ and Jamison a more effective ‘finisher’. Which wouldn’t square with a clear settlement on there bring a first choice.

But whether about that, or even on the view of the coaches at the start of the season on their preferred starter, and I’m prepared to concede that Luke was probably marginally ahead up to the last month, are you really saying that is the position now?


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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » November 4th, 2017, 10:25 pm

So am I the only one who thinks Nick McCarthy is first choice?
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » November 4th, 2017, 10:33 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:So am I the only one who thinks Nick McCarthy is first choice?


Could develop into it if given enough development opportunities.
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby ronk » November 4th, 2017, 11:13 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:So am I the only one who thinks Nick McCarthy is first choice?


Possibly.

I have a feeling that the negatives in his game would be found pretty fast here if we were watching him every week.

If he was turning games around then there’d be a clear basis for expectation.
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » November 5th, 2017, 1:09 pm

Yeah that was a joke lads :lol:
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby riocard911 » November 5th, 2017, 1:45 pm

Thanks, LRIF. A bit of lIght relief wouldn't go amiss on this thread.....
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby Peg Leg » November 5th, 2017, 2:51 pm

OMG LRIP, he just called you fat!
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » November 5th, 2017, 3:49 pm

Peg Leg wrote:OMG LRIP, he just called you fat!


Oh thank God, for a second I thought he'd called Luke fat and was about to ring Leinster about JGP's BMI!
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby paddyor » November 5th, 2017, 5:27 pm

Ruckedtobits wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:
ronk wrote:JGP could as easily go the other direction and find himself in Ireland squads.


Could he? I don't see that at all, is far too headless at 9 for a schmidt coached team.

Maybe I can't view him without a negative bias, ever since that scarlets semi final.


The bias started a lot earlier than then, probably as soon as it looked like his passing was better than McGrath's.

Luckily for McGrath, JGPs passing has regressed the past few games....
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby paddyor » November 5th, 2017, 5:30 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:
ronk wrote:JGP could as easily go the other direction and find himself in Ireland squads.


Could he? I don't see that at all, is far too headless at 9 for a schmidt coached team.

Maybe I can't view him without a negative bias, ever since that scarlets semi final.

I think the first point is key. If you look at his treatmnet of marmion, I don't think Schmidt would be all that hot on him.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby Oldschool » November 5th, 2017, 5:53 pm

At this point in time the JuciSora line must be that the first choice in any position in at least three of the provinces should be Irish Qualified.
Ideally that should exclude project players but some flexibility would obviously apply.
At this point in time then McGrath should always get the nod over JGP.
If that was agreeable to posters then we could pack in the debate re McGrath v JGP and
Focus on McGrath v McCarthy comparisons.
A poster recently remarked that McGrath was throwing 5000 passes a week.
That's all well and good but quality over quantity should be the priority.
How should McGrath be coached/training to improve his passing.
We could say the same about our hookers (and before anyone jumps up and down to point out the obvious)
notwithstanding the fact that the lineout is more than a one man operation.

The same could be said for the SH and his passing. His runners and OH have to be getting it right too.
And the SH has to be prepared to react, hold the trigger and take the punishment himself.
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby ronk » November 5th, 2017, 11:19 pm

paddyor wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:
ronk wrote:JGP could as easily go the other direction and find himself in Ireland squads.


Could he? I don't see that at all, is far too headless at 9 for a schmidt coached team.

Maybe I can't view him without a negative bias, ever since that scarlets semi final.

I think the first point is key. If you look at his treatmnet of marmion, I don't think Schmidt would be all that hot on him.


What about Marmion. He's used, he's been in squads. There hasnt really been anyone picked ahead of him who isn't better than him.
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby brotheroffrank » December 26th, 2017, 7:59 pm

Rumour Mill...."who is the better scrum-half?/rate the scrum halves in order of preference" debates can be held in the Laighan Out Bar after the Connacht game. ....the OLSC have also confirmed they will be providing Marmite to all participants. ....
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » January 19th, 2018, 4:27 pm

Update:

Conor Dean(St. Marys) and Harry Byrne(UCD) appear to be the likely starter for Ireland u20 during the 6 nations. Both could join academy next season.
David Hawkshaw(Belvdere) is the star prospect in schools rugby but if he sticks with 10 is up for debate.

Hugh O'Sullivan(Clontarf) should feature heavily for Ireland u20, while Patrick Patterson(UCD) might also when he returns from injury.
Cormac Foley(St. Gerards) is the star prospect in schools rugby, where he currently plays 12.
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » February 13th, 2018, 3:40 pm

Hugh O'Sullivan and Harry Byrne started for Ireland u20 against Italy and impressed.

Patterson/Dean were on the bench, Dean got 20 mins and didn't really make an impression IMO. Patterson got 5 minutes and in limited time looked decent, would like to see him get some more game time.
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » February 15th, 2018, 9:32 am

Hugh O'Sullivan pretty impressive starting at 9 last weekend for Ireland u20. Excellent pass.
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » April 10th, 2018, 9:07 am

Options at 9:

Nick McCarthy(23/UCD-St.Michaels) - 16 appearances, but only 2 starts this season. Progressing well.
Charlie Rock(23/Lansdowne-Blackrock) - has 1 appearance, in final year of academy. Size could be a barrier to further progress.
Hugh O'Sullivan(20/Clontarf-Suttonians) - 1st year in academy & 1st year playing 9 fully, has been playing AIL and irish u20's.
--
Paddy Patterson(u20/UCD-Blackrock) - in sub academy, missed start of season with injury. Made 1 appearance for Ireland u20 off bench, starting regularly in AIL.
James Kenny(u20/Lansdowne-Gonzaga) - injured most of the season, has made a few appearances for Lansdowne under-20.
Cormac Foley(u19/St. Gerards) - has been playing 12 this season in school, made Ireland u19 as a 9.
Shane Murphy(u18/Skerries) - made Ireland u18B team.
Ben Murphy(u18/Pres Bray) - under-17, made Ireland u18A team.
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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » April 10th, 2018, 9:09 am

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Re: Leinster's Halfback Options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » April 10th, 2018, 9:12 am

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