Leinster full back, Ireland out half

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Re: Leinster full back, Ireland out half

Postby Dave Cahill » November 21st, 2017, 1:32 pm

26th of December.
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Re: Leinster full back, Ireland out half

Postby Laighin Break » November 21st, 2017, 2:09 pm

He's clearly called it that to get a reaction
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Re: Leinster full back, Ireland out half

Postby Dave Cahill » November 21st, 2017, 2:24 pm

Laighin Break wrote:He's clearly called it that to get a reaction
Clearly.
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Re: Leinster full back, Ireland out half

Postby hugonaut » November 21st, 2017, 2:45 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:Joe Schmidt actually had a pretty mediocre record with signings as Leinster coach - for every Brad Thorn there was a Jamie Hagan, for every Nathan White there was a Clint (Craig) Newland (Ryland).

He has found himself in an awkward position partly of his own creation. Due to his having Sexton in situ and Jackson maturing into a fine outhalf he wasn't too exercised about where Carbury played. He had options that were playing regularly. But with Jackson now unavailable for the foreseeable future, Schmidt finds himself in a tight spot. He has Sexton, but after that? Ulster have nothing, Connacht have nothing. Munster have Keatley certainly, but Bleyandaal doesn't appear to have it and JJ seems to have lost it for the time being. Meanwhile, as is often the case, Leinster have a couple of guys. Carbury of course, then there is Byrne and Marsh who both have all the ability required to play at the highest levels. I would query if Byrne has the pace though and I'm not certain about Marshes temperament.

Ironically the solution was simple. This exact time last year there was an Irish outhalf basically hawking himself around the provinces in the hope of getting a contract, but there were no takers and not much interest from the Irish Coach or Director of Rugby either. Turns out that at least two of the provinces could have done with signing Madigan though.


Connacht's sniffiness at the prospect of getting Ian Madigan to play outhalf for them was pretty f*cking delusional. Their defense of their Pro12 title was abject, and midway through it they have the opportunity to really push for Nucifora to deliver them a 27 year old, 30-cap Irish test outhalf with Six Nations, Heineken Cup and Pro12 medals to his name ... and they say no thanks, we've got Jack Carty and Marnitz Botha [source: http://www.the42.ie/connacht-ian-madiga ... 4-Feb2017/ ]. Jesus wept.

Madigan wanted to come back to Ireland, and if the Connacht exec. had made the right noises, they probably would have got him half price, with the union picking up the other half. But Nucifora wasn't going to push the boat out to bring a player back when the likeliest landing spot publicly said they didn't want him ... because they're unrealistic and foolish.
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Re: Leinster full back, Ireland out half

Postby Edna Kenny » November 21st, 2017, 2:53 pm

There's a good chance that come the world cup, Ross Byrne will be a viable option at outhalf so his game time at 10 for Leinster is also beneficial for Ireland. He is also very young and is probably ahead of where Sexton was when he was 22. I'm sure Joey will get a lot more game time at outhalf when he is fit again and there are more options now at 15. Playing 15 isn't damaging him. Byrne and Carbery are both getting lots of game time which is the most important thing. It might be worth him kicking goals for Leinster if he is backup 10 for Ireland but Byrne has always seemed a better place kicker to me. It's strange that this debate kicks off when he gets injured and can't play.
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Re: Leinster full back, Ireland out half

Postby curates_egg » November 21st, 2017, 5:03 pm

Edna Kenny wrote:It's strange that this debate kicks off when he gets injured and can't play.


I think it has "kicked off" more because he just had his first game at outhalf this season. A game in which he acquitted himself very well (with some spectacular moments) against a top-10 international side, and after which the coach expressed bemusement that this was his first game at outhalf this season. The injury is pretty irrelevant in that context as he would not have played for Ireland this week anyway.
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Re: Leinster full back, Ireland out half

Postby Dave Cahill » November 21st, 2017, 5:14 pm

To paraphrase Bill Hicks, "after the first four, there's a real f%~king drop off"
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Re: Leinster full back, Ireland out half

Postby Edna Kenny » November 21st, 2017, 6:05 pm

curates_egg wrote:
Edna Kenny wrote:It's strange that this debate kicks off when he gets injured and can't play.


I think it has "kicked off" more because he just had his first game at outhalf this season. A game in which he acquitted himself very well (with some spectacular moments) against a top-10 international side, and after which the coach expressed bemusement that this was his first game at outhalf this season. The injury is pretty irrelevant in that context as he would not have played for Ireland this week anyway.


He would have played outhalf off the bench this week if he wasn't injured. Not sure Joe expressed bemusement either, he seemed to have a prett clear understanding of the situation.
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Re: Leinster full back, Ireland out half

Postby Fireworks » November 21st, 2017, 6:42 pm

Edna Kenny wrote:There's a good chance that come the world cup, Ross Byrne will be a viable option at outhalf so his game time at 10 for Leinster is also beneficial for Ireland. He is also very young and is probably ahead of where Sexton was when he was 22. I'm sure Joey will get a lot more game time at outhalf when he is fit again and there are more options now at 15. Playing 15 isn't damaging him. Byrne and Carbery are both getting lots of game time which is the most important thing. It might be worth him kicking goals for Leinster if he is backup 10 for Ireland but Byrne has always seemed a better place kicker to me. It's strange that this debate kicks off when he gets injured and can't play.


I think Ross Byrne is getting forgotten in the discussion. He could potentially be the better 10 in the next few years. He may not have the dazzle of Joey but then neither does JS and he does ok for us. We have an embarrassment of riches at 10 right now and we should enjoy it. With the injury profile of the three of them and the demands of the Irish matches and sessions I would not like to see any of the going anywhere.
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Re: Leinster full back, Ireland out half

Postby ronk » November 21st, 2017, 9:41 pm

Raydollard wrote:Play him at 10 where he is the best we have or let him move to a club that will play him at 10.


He's not. He's also 3rd for Ireland ahead of Keatley.

He was needed at fullback and has been developing well there.
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Re: Leinster full back, Ireland out half

Postby Raydollard » November 21st, 2017, 10:01 pm

That’s your opinion.
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Re: Leinster full back, Ireland out half

Postby neiliog93 » November 21st, 2017, 10:32 pm

Hugonaut hits the nail on the head re.Madigan. I can understand Ulster not wanting him as they could not have foreseen the Jackson/Olding situation, and McPhillips looked very promising. But Connacht not taking him on when he publicly said "I'd love to play for Connacht" is utterly ludicrous; bad for Connacht, bad for Madigan and bad for the Irish national team.
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Re: Leinster full back, Ireland out half

Postby Dave Cahill » November 21st, 2017, 11:34 pm

neiliog93 wrote:I can understand Ulster not wanting him as they could not have foreseen the Jackson/Olding situation.


The thing is though, that at the time that Madigan was looking for a contract here, Ireland had already left them out of the squad to go to the USA - so it was more actual sight than foresight that was being used.
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Re: Leinster full back, Ireland out half

Postby desperado » November 21st, 2017, 11:55 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:Joey Carbery - rugby player, i'm sure he will get gametime at 10 in 2018.

People need to stop giving the idea he is leaving any oxygen...

eddie being a typical munster man with his comments.


It's also grist to the mill for those OTB nucks. They'll be bangin a drum for the next while about it. There was zero real discussion on options within the Leinster environment for Joey; it was straight to ... Joey needs to leave.
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Re: Leinster full back, Ireland out half

Postby BlueBlue » November 22nd, 2017, 1:11 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:Joey Carbery - rugby player, i'm sure he will get gametime at 10 in 2018.

People need to stop giving the idea he is leaving any oxygen...

eddie being a typical munster man with his comments.



Couldn't agree more, a lot of this over the top talk goes on in Ireland. The guy is playing and learning, gaining experience. In short he's developing. Let him play full back and 10 from time to time. Bruden Barrett developed exactly the same way mostly playing 15 in the early years and then switching to 10, didn't do him any harm, I didn't see the kiwi's getting in a tissy.
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Re: Leinster full back, Ireland out half

Postby mildlyinterested » November 22nd, 2017, 1:23 pm

the biggest problem is that the other provinces haven't developed an outhalf to backup Sexton, so once again Leinster are called upon to do so.
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Re: Leinster full back, Ireland out half

Postby the spoofer » November 22nd, 2017, 1:28 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:the biggest problem is that the other provinces haven't developed an outhalf to backup Sexton, so once again Leinster are called upon to do so.


With Zebo gone from Munster, you could be looking at a backline down there with two homegrown players

Murray, Keatley,
Wootton Taute Farrell Earls
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Re: Leinster full back, Ireland out half

Postby mildlyinterested » November 22nd, 2017, 2:04 pm

the spoofer wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:the biggest problem is that the other provinces haven't developed an outhalf to backup Sexton, so once again Leinster are called upon to do so.


With Zebo gone from Munster, you could be looking at a backline down there with two homegrown players

Murray, Keatley,
Wootton Taute Farrell Earls
Conway


to be fair Taute is out so Scannell at 12.

3 homegrown, 4 from academy.
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Re: Leinster full back, Ireland out half

Postby ronk » November 22nd, 2017, 3:27 pm

The biggest barrier to Carbery playing outhalf has been injuries sustained on international duty. Kearney, Henshaw, Ringrose and him.
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Re: Leinster full back, Ireland out half

Postby scentofgunpowder » November 22nd, 2017, 3:29 pm

hugonaut wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:Joe Schmidt actually had a pretty mediocre record with signings as Leinster coach - for every Brad Thorn there was a Jamie Hagan, for every Nathan White there was a Clint (Craig) Newland (Ryland).

He has found himself in an awkward position partly of his own creation. Due to his having Sexton in situ and Jackson maturing into a fine outhalf he wasn't too exercised about where Carbury played. He had options that were playing regularly. But with Jackson now unavailable for the foreseeable future, Schmidt finds himself in a tight spot. He has Sexton, but after that? Ulster have nothing, Connacht have nothing. Munster have Keatley certainly, but Bleyandaal doesn't appear to have it and JJ seems to have lost it for the time being. Meanwhile, as is often the case, Leinster have a couple of guys. Carbury of course, then there is Byrne and Marsh who both have all the ability required to play at the highest levels. I would query if Byrne has the pace though and I'm not certain about Marshes temperament.

Ironically the solution was simple. This exact time last year there was an Irish outhalf basically hawking himself around the provinces in the hope of getting a contract, but there were no takers and not much interest from the Irish Coach or Director of Rugby either. Turns out that at least two of the provinces could have done with signing Madigan though.


Connacht's sniffiness at the prospect of getting Ian Madigan to play outhalf for them was pretty f*cking delusional. Their defense of their Pro12 title was abject, and midway through it they have the opportunity to really push for Nucifora to deliver them a 27 year old, 30-cap Irish test outhalf with Six Nations, Heineken Cup and Pro12 medals to his name ... and they say no thanks, we've got Jack Carty and Marnitz Botha [source: http://www.the42.ie/connacht-ian-madiga ... 4-Feb2017/ ]. Jesus wept.

Madigan wanted to come back to Ireland, and if the Connacht exec. had made the right noises, they probably would have got him half price, with the union picking up the other half. But Nucifora wasn't going to push the boat out to bring a player back when the likeliest landing spot publicly said they didn't want him ... because they're unrealistic and foolish.


I don't think Connacht could afford to pay Boshoff €200,000 per year and Madigan something similar. Plus Jack Carty is probably on too much money to be third choice.

That also assumes that the IRFU would throw Connacht a significant amount of money for Ireland's (at best) third choice outhalf, and this would absolutely not stretch the budget elsewhere.
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