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Hard to guess but Ive a feeling he'll play 8 a lot for them with Deysel at 6, possibly other way roundarsebiscuits1 wrote:2 year deal.
I can see him becoming a very important player for Ulster.
Assuming Coetzee doesn't come back and Henderson stays in the row he is going straight to the top of the pecking order at Ulster and I would like to see him truly nail down a position
Well exactly! Your players are going to play for Ireland (great!) and the players who play when your guys are playing for Ireland are going to other provinces because the players in front of them are playing for Ireland! (not great!)mildlyinterested wrote:not exactly a reward is it?molloyjh wrote:We have more guys on central contract, which frees up money for the rest of the squad.Flash Gordon wrote:Very sorry to see him go, the guy plays across the back row and is a super professional. The reality is that, given the attritional nature of the position, you need 2 international class backrows and he's in that frame - I still think he'd have got plenty of game time.
As an aside, should Leinster be rewarded for the supply to other provinces? And where is the accountability for the dire output from other provinces? Ulster have been awful in terms of bringing players through in the last 5 years.
I think Connacht have actually done OK given their population base and having been a less fashionable team.Flash Gordon wrote:
The lack of productivity from other provinces is alarming. If you look at the Guinness Series squad we had 18 players that came through our academy, Munster 7, Ulster just 4 (including Farrell & excluding Herring, Best, Treadwell from external academies) and Connacht just 2 - Henshaw and Dillane (who was born in France and raised in Kerry). The records of Ulster and Connacht are extremely poor.
I was talking about the Academy! I continue to be bemused as to why O'Halloran isn't involved with Ireland but 2 players, one of which isn't from Connacht, coming through the Academy is pretty poor. Ulster is very poor, particularly as pre-Clarke/Doak/Campbell they were so prolific in terms of output and given the number of schoolboy players in the province.OSS wrote:I think Connacht have actually done OK given their population base and having been a less fashionable team.Flash Gordon wrote:
The lack of productivity from other provinces is alarming. If you look at the Guinness Series squad we had 18 players that came through our academy, Munster 7, Ulster just 4 (including Farrell & excluding Herring, Best, Treadwell from external academies) and Connacht just 2 - Henshaw and Dillane (who was born in France and raised in Kerry). The records of Ulster and Connacht are extremely poor.
There’ve also been a port in the storm for Flannery, Nugget and Jackman. Muldoon is a little unlucky not to have more caps and like it or lump it O’Hallaron is still a pretty tasty player.
It’s whats to be expected for a team that has traditionally taken players not favored by Leinster or to a lesser extent Munster, and have shown in their swoop for Kelleher that they have ambitions of playing a great brand of rugby admirable if just only given the state of the weather down there.
Think the Pienaar situation kind of reinforces the point. In 7 years they never produced a scrum half even remotely close to european or interntational level. There's a couple of things happening, I think their schools playing numbers are in line with Leinster's but they lose a bucket load of them. Think a lot are going to Scotland to college so how do you get better players to stay and play rugby at centers of excellence at Queens and Jordanstown for example?molloyjh wrote:I'm not really sure how else this can all work. We have the largest population and the best equipped schools to turn out the talent. We're always going to have more players with Ireland than anyone else regardless. There are definitely issues with Ulster, and to a lesser extent Munster, but again that isn't something we should be rewarded for. It's something that should be taken up with them. And ask any Ulster fan if that has happened and I'm sure they won't be slow to point out losing Peinaar. Or at Munster the Moore non-signing.
And we're hardly suffering for all of this at the moment. We're still the best performing side game on game in the country. We went up to Ulster missing a few internationals (were they missing any?) and still beat them well.
At the end of the day having more centrally contracted players gives us more money to spend elsewhere, which is a positive. It also means we get to blood more of the talented players coming through the Academy which continually feeds the squad.
Well when we’re talking about the effects of the provinces producing internationals and the impact on us of producing so much more it’s a good comparator. But even still, certainly based on last season, we’re performing pretty favourably to the top sides in England and France. A European SF where we ran Clermont close in France having had a mare of a start shows were really not that far off at all.Flash Gordon wrote:Think the Pienaar situation kind of reinforces the point. In 7 years they never produced a scrum half even remotely close to european or interntational level. There's a couple of things happening, I think their schools playing numbers are in line with Leinster's but they lose a bucket load of them. Think a lot are going to Scotland to college so how do you get better players to stay and play rugby at centers of excellence at Queens and Jordanstown for example?molloyjh wrote:I'm not really sure how else this can all work. We have the largest population and the best equipped schools to turn out the talent. We're always going to have more players with Ireland than anyone else regardless. There are definitely issues with Ulster, and to a lesser extent Munster, but again that isn't something we should be rewarded for. It's something that should be taken up with them. And ask any Ulster fan if that has happened and I'm sure they won't be slow to point out losing Peinaar. Or at Munster the Moore non-signing.
And we're hardly suffering for all of this at the moment. We're still the best performing side game on game in the country. We went up to Ulster missing a few internationals (were they missing any?) and still beat them well.
At the end of the day having more centrally contracted players gives us more money to spend elsewhere, which is a positive. It also means we get to blood more of the talented players coming through the Academy which continually feeds the squad.
Also the management and coaching in the Academy itself has not been up to the right standard, it's not like they don't have the facilities either!
As for the best performing side in the country, that's not really our benchmark in my opinion, the best performing sides in France and England are.
Neither player is from Connacht - Henshaw is from Westmeath. Not sure why there's a need to point out that Dillane was born in France though?Flash Gordon wrote:I was talking about the Academy! I continue to be bemused as to why O'Halloran isn't involved with Ireland but 2 players, one of which isn't from Connacht, coming through the Academy is pretty poor. Ulster is very poor, particularly as pre-Clarke/Doak/Campbell they were so prolific in terms of output and given the number of schoolboy players in the province.OSS wrote:I think Connacht have actually done OK given their population base and having been a less fashionable team.Flash Gordon wrote:
The lack of productivity from other provinces is alarming. If you look at the Guinness Series squad we had 18 players that came through our academy, Munster 7, Ulster just 4 (including Farrell & excluding Herring, Best, Treadwell from external academies) and Connacht just 2 - Henshaw and Dillane (who was born in France and raised in Kerry). The records of Ulster and Connacht are extremely poor.
There’ve also been a port in the storm for Flannery, Nugget and Jackman. Muldoon is a little unlucky not to have more caps and like it or lump it O’Hallaron is still a pretty tasty player.
It’s whats to be expected for a team that has traditionally taken players not favored by Leinster or to a lesser extent Munster, and have shown in their swoop for Kelleher that they have ambitions of playing a great brand of rugby admirable if just only given the state of the weather down there.
Excluding Best is serious nit picking. He came back from Newcastle when he was 19. He was only there to study. He had played rugby in Ulster schools.Flash Gordon wrote:Well exactly! Your players are going to play for Ireland (great!) and the players who play when your guys are playing for Ireland are going to other provinces because the players in front of them are playing for Ireland! (not great!)mildlyinterested wrote:not exactly a reward is it?molloyjh wrote:
We have more guys on central contract, which frees up money for the rest of the squad.
The lack of productivity from other provinces is alarming. If you look at the Guinness Series squad we had 18 players that came through our academy, Munster 7, Ulster just 4 (including Farrell & excluding Herring, Best, Treadwell from external academies) and Connacht just 2 - Henshaw and Dillane (who was born in France and raised in Kerry). The records of Ulster and Connacht are extremely poor.
+1Peg Leg wrote:(Vs Glasgow) Jordi just moves from 6 to 8 to accommodate a van der leavy backrow, and does so seamlessly. Can't believe we are losing him.
Standard with the injury he had.artaneboy wrote:He’s getting better and better as the season progresses.
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Black Sunday?johng wrote:Leinster's biggest loss to another province since...... Ever
You should fear it. We certainly will miss him.wwed wrote:Really pis$ed to be losing him. He's consistent, versatile, great attitude, usually available (apart from recent cruciate injury) and clearly well-liked and respected within the squad. Fear we could sorely miss him in next couple of years.
