Contracts

[Lar]

The earth is flat

I do not believe you are correct.

[artaneboy]

Also rumousr doing the rounds that
1)Jackson and Olding are getting P45s irrespective of the outcome of the trial
b)They want out of Belfast if they're found innocent

Wow. That would be a terrible shame (if they are found innocent) to be basically run out of their home province. I'd say in those circumstances they would not be interested in playing for any of the other 3 provinces. Jackson would be snapped up, Olding too by the french or english clubs.

They are probably right though. Chad Evans (footballer) was found innocent but his name is still tarnished by the court case and still receives awful abuse from fans. I would want them to stay but I can see the reason why they would go abroad.

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[artaneboy]

Totally not referencing the case in point, but a criminal court does not find you “innocent”, it may find you “not guilty.” There’s a real difference- and that’s the issue with living with the situation afterwards.

Peculiar alright that Issac Boss also fell foul of the same charge.


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[Dave Cahill]

Totally not referencing the case in point, but a criminal court does not find you “innocent”, it may find you “not guilty.” There’s a real difference- and that’s the issue with living with the situation afterwards.

Peculiar alright that Issac Boss also fell foul of the same charge.


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A criminal court doesn't need to find you innocent as you're already innocent and presumed to be innocent until and unless you're found to be guilty.

[artaneboy]

Totally not referencing the case in point, but a criminal court does not find you “innocent”, it may find you “not guilty.” There’s a real difference- and that’s the issue with living with the situation afterwards.

Peculiar alright that Issac Boss also fell foul of the same charge.


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A criminal court doesn't need to find you innocent as you're already innocent and presumed to be innocent until and unless you're found to be guilty.

But of a rabbit hole this one- but just for a moment. It doesn’t matter what it “needs” to do; in point of fact (and it’s no accident) the court finds you ‘guilty’ or ‘not guilty’. The prosecution needs to prove its case to the court with a high standard of certainty.

The totally correct necessity for a sufficient burden of proof to get a criminal conviction means that everyone knows a jury’s declaration acquitting someone, doesn’t necessarily mean the person didn’t commit the crime: rather it wasn’t proved.

There are plenty of high profile cases of that, where even the acquitted person has subsequently admitted their culpability. So a declaration of “not guilty” as opposed to innocence is how the law and society deals with that unarticulated but undeniable reality.

Now that the “double jeopardy” principle has been eroded I expect this to become clearer when we have retrials of people previously declared not guilty as new evidence emerges. But right or wrong, that’s probably enough on that...

[Leinsterlunatic]

The earth is flat

No it's not.

It's quite clearly a triangle.

[Peg Leg]

The earth is flat

No it's not.

It's quite clearly a triangle.

I think he meant PH, phlat.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

That a dig at me?

[simonokeeffe]

That a dig at me?

I think we're going to need a bigger shovel

Think this has gone from being about Leinster contracts to Law & Order very quickly. F all chance of Byrne or Carberry moving.

[Peg Leg]

That a dig at me?

I'm not sure. It certainly was not when I wrote it, but I'll leave it up to you to decide. [GRINNING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]

[LeRouxIsPHat]

That a dig at me?

I'm not sure. It certainly was not when I wrote it, but I'll leave it up to you to decide. [GRINNING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]

Reported.

6 week ban for Peg Leg please, down to 5 and a half if he pleads guilty.

[simonokeeffe]

That a dig at me?

I'm not sure. It certainly was not when I wrote it, but I'll leave it up to you to decide. [GRINNING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]

Reported.

6 week ban for Peg Leg please, down to 5 and a half if he pleads guilty.

He will definitely wear chinos to the hearing and eat all the biscuits

[Oldschool]

Think you might have missed the citing window.

[Oldschoolsocks]

...They want out of Belfast if they're found innocent

a defendant cannot be found innocent - the choice is guilty or not guilty

I know, I know pedantry and all that, but it's an important distinction

[FLIP]

...They want out of Belfast if they're found innocent

a defendant cannot be found innocent - the choice is guilty or not guilty

I know, I know pedantry and all that, but it's an important distinction

Also an important distinction is innocent until found guilty.

[Peg Leg]

Innocent or guilty, the #metoo movement and public sentiment following the outing of so many sex crims lately will not help their cases.

[Oldschool]

Not a legal expert.
Is it innocence or is it the presumption of innocence?

[Oldschoolsocks]

presumption of innocence - one is considered innocent unless proven guilty.

[artaneboy]

Not a legal expert.
Is it innocence or is it the presumption of innocence?

The latter. We went through this a few days ago. You are regarded and treated legally as if you are innocent- whether in reality you are or not, until proven otherwise.

Essentially the state don’t/ cannot declare one innocent. They can find you guilty or (if the case against you is deemed not proven) declare you ‘not guilty’.


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